Why Didn't God Leave Huge Quantities of Secular Evidence For Jesus?

[Skywalker]

That article does not seem to refute the claim that Perseus was born of a virgin. Rather it appears to support the myth.


By the way if you want to claim that some of the Roman Gods were not the product of a virgin birth then by the same standards Jesus's birth was not a virgin birth either.

Demigods may have been virgin born but not virgin conceived. Why is the Virgin Birth so important? | GotQuestions.org

The doctrine of the virgin birth is crucially important (Isaiah 7:14; Matthew 1:23; Luke 1:27, 34). First, let’s look at how Scripture describes the event. In response to Mary’s question, “How will this be?” (Luke 1:34), Gabriel says, “The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you” (Luke 1:35). The angel encourages Joseph to not fear marrying Mary with these words: “What is conceived in her is from the Holy Spirit” (Matthew 1:20). Matthew states that the virgin “was found to be with child through the Holy Spirit” (Matthew 1:18). Galatians 4:4 also teaches the Virgin Birth: “God sent His Son, born of a woman.”

From these passages, it is certainly clear that Jesus’ birth was the result of the Holy Spirit working within Mary’s body. The immaterial (the Spirit) and the material (Mary’s womb) were both involved. Mary, of course, could not impregnate herself, and in that sense she was simply a “vessel.” Only God could perform the miracle of the Incarnation.

 

[Skywalker]

So what?

It's true that the details of Jesus being different doesn't mean anything because the essence is what matters, but the essence of Jesus isn't the same as the demigods of mythology. They didn't love their creation so much they became a man to suffer and die for their sins.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Demigods may have been virgin born but not virgin conceived. Why is the Virgin Birth so important? | GotQuestions.org

Why not? Remember, lying sources cannot help you. They can only hurt you. By the standards that your sources use Mary was not virgin conceived either.

 

[Subduction Zone]

It's true that the details of Jesus being different doesn't mean anything because the essence is what matters, but the essence of Jesus isn't the same as the demigods of mythology. They didn't love their creation so much they became a man to suffer and die for their sins.

But that is pure foolishness. There is no need to suffer and die for sins.

Why do you keep claiming that your God is immoral and incompetent?

 

[Skywalker]

Why not? Remember, lying sources cannot help you. They can only hurt you. By the standards that your sources use Mary was not virgin conceived either.

How can Zoroaster be compared to Jesus? Jesus Vs Zoroaster – Debunking The Alleged Parallels | Reasons for Jesus

A vague doctrine of a future redeemer does appear in texts dated as early as the 400s BC, but only later (9th cent. AD) texts go into detail, reporting three world saviors — “virgin born” in a sense: It seems that some of Zoro’s sperm is being preserved in a lake in Iran, and that three virgins bathing in the lake over the next few thousand years are going to get a big surprise as a result. Virgin born, perhaps, but not virgin conceived. The last of these three guys will eradicate all disease and death and usher in the final victory of good over evil. And that, folks, is about the size of it — there are more convincing parallels to Jesus in Dragonball Z than there are to the big Persian Z.

 

[Skywalker]

But that is pure foolishness. There is no need to suffer and die for sins.

Why do you keep claiming that your God is immoral and incompetent?

Whether one believes that God suffered and died for our sins doesn't change that that aspect of who Jesus makes Jesus different from the demigods of mythology.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Whether one believes that God suffered and died for our sins doesn't change that that aspect of who Jesus makes Jesus different from the demigods of mythology.

Of course there are minor differences. No one ever said that they were exactly the same.

Except for the poor sources that you use. They confirm the similarities by only saying "But wait! There are small differences!!"

 

[joelr]

It's true that the details of Jesus being different doesn't mean anything because the essence is what matters, but the essence of Jesus isn't the same as the demigods of mythology. They didn't love their creation so much they became a man to suffer and die for their sins.

You know you are making stuff up now. It's painfully obvious. You haven't read the scriptures of any other savior god and know nothing about how the followers thought of them.
We do know Krishna, another son of a God speaks the same to followers about love:

"However, we find a very different and more loving God in the Vedic tradition in the form of Lord Krishna. So, let us find out the nature of this more loving form of the Supreme Being.

Lord Krishna describes His ever-loving nature towards one and all, but especially for those who engage in loving Him. This is not favoritism but a natural reciprocation with those who are filled with loving feelings for Him. Lord Krishna explains Himself this way:

 

[joelr]

Perseus was not born of a virgin. Perseus – Debunking Atheism

But many others were. Like Ra.


"Judaism was heavily influenced by Zoroastrianism, the religion of the Achaemenids.[27][8][28] Jewish conceptions of Satan were impacted by Angra Mainyu,[8][29] the Zoroastrian god of evil, darkness, and ignorance.[8] In the Septuagint, the Hebrew ha-Satan in Job and Zechariah is translated by the Greek word diabolos (slanderer), the same word in the Greek New Testament from which the English word "devil" is derived""

 

[joelr]

The Bible never says that Satan is the king of hell or hell is literally a place of fire and brimstone. We are all sinners. None of us are good. Is hell literally a place of fire and brimstone? | GotQuestions.org

Yup, Jesus says "eternal fire" for non-believ

The idea of the immortality of the soul is derived from Greek philosophy[34] and the idea of the resurrection of the dead is derived from Persian cosmology.

 

[joelr]

The essence can be the same with different details but that doesn't mean that the essence of the Bible is the same essence as that of pagan beliefs. None of them died for the sins of the world to save us from our own destruction.

Sure, a demigod, virgin born comes to save the world and get people into the afterlife and everyone gets to resurrect at the end of the world. That essence is the same.

 

[joelr]

The destroying angel is a different being from Satan. Destroying angel (Bible) - Wikipedia

Job 2:3 doesn't describe God and Satan working together.

Yup. They have a conversation and God allows Satan to cause trouble.:

Yahweh asks one of them, "the satan", where he has been, to which he replies that he has been roaming around the earth.[21] Yahweh asks, "Have you considered My servant Job?"[21] The satan replies by urging Yahweh to let him torture Job, promising that Job will abandon his faith at the first tribulation.[22] Yahweh consents;



And


In 2 Samuel 24, Yahweh sends the "Angel of Yahweh" to inflict a plague against Israel for three days, killing 70,000 people as punishment

Yahweh "sends"?. Horrible myths.Yes they worked together.

 

[joelr]

Whether one believes that God suffered and died for our sins doesn't change that that aspect of who Jesus makes Jesus different from the demigods of mythology.

Savior demigods are personal gods who get you into the afterlife. In Judaism you could not get to the good afterlife with all the "sin-force" weighing you down. So the Jewish savior had to be a sin-forgiving god. Every religion has differences. There may have been other sin-forgiving savior gods as well. Scriptures from other religions were destroyed, punishable by death and the vast majority of Mystery religion information was erased from Earth.

Jesus is a savior resurrecting God. A Hellenistic creation. Adapted to fit Judaism.

 

[joelr]

How can Zoroaster be compared to Jesus? Jesus Vs Zoroaster – Debunking The Alleged Parallels | Reasons for Jesus

You should have read the article, for once JP HOlding says something correct.

"Some of the things listed above are actually true and confirmed by scholarly literature — and a couple of them come from sources that Zoroastrian scholars suggest go back to a source predating Christianity."


Your article further proves this!??
A virgin born world savior who will be part human and save humanity. That is the basic idea. He acknowledges the information is pre-Christian.
Then he lists differences. Yes there will always be differences. Battlestar Galactica was taken from Star Wars but has many many differences. All fiction does. West Side Story is admittedly a modern version of Romeo and Juliet.
Yet some joker could deny it and say "where were the switchblades in Romeo?" "where were the gang fights and NY city?"
There are so many differences, yet it's an adaptaton based on life in NY.
Each religion took their doctrine and characters and myths and styles of magic powers and made their own version. Noting differences doesn't mean they didn't copy the Persians.

Scholarship is certain they took many myths and made them their own.


During the period of the Second Temple (c. 515 BC – 70 AD), the Hebrew people lived under the rule of first the Persian Achaemenid Empire, then the Greek kingdoms of the Diadochi, and finally the Roman Empire.[32] Their culture was profoundly influenced by those of the peoples who ruled them.[32] Consequently, their views on existence after death were profoundly shaped by the ideas of the Persians, Greeks, and Romans.[33][34] The idea of the immortality of the soul is derived from Greek philosophy[34] and the idea of the resurrection of the dead is derived from Persian cosmology.[34] By the early first century AD, these two seemingly incompatible ideas were often conflated by Hebrew thinkers.[34] The Hebrews also inherited from the Persians, Greeks, and Romans the idea that the human soul originates in the divine realm and seeks to return there.[32] The idea that a human soul belongs in Heaven and that Earth is merely a temporary abode in which the soul is tested to prove its worthiness became increasingly popular during the Hellenistic period (323 – 31 BC).[29] Gradually, some Hebrews began to adopt the idea of Heaven as the eternal home of the righteous dead.[29]


"Judaism was heavily influenced by Zoroastrianism, the religion of the Achaemenids.[27][8][28] Jewish conceptions of Satan were impacted by Angra Mainyu,[8][29] the Zoroastrian god of evil, darkness, and ignorance.[8] In the Septuagint, the Hebrew ha-Satan in Job and Zechariah is translated by the Greek word diabolos (slanderer), the same word in the Greek New Testament from which the English word "devil" is derived""

 

[Skywalker]

But that is pure foolishness. There is no need to suffer and die for sins.

Why do you keep claiming that your God is immoral and incompetent?

Even the most fair judge has to be just.

You should have read the article, for once JP HOlding says something correct.

"Some of the things listed above are actually true and confirmed by scholarly literature — and a couple of them come from sources that Zoroastrian scholars suggest go back to a source predating Christianity."


Your article further proves this!??
A virgin born world savior who will be part human and save humanity. That is the basic idea. He acknowledges the information is pre-Christian.
Then he lists differences. Yes there will always be differences. Battlestar Galactica was taken from Star Wars but has many many differences. All fiction does. West Side Story is admittedly a modern version of Romeo and Juliet.
Yet some joker could deny it and say "where were the switchblades in Romeo?" "where were the gang fights and NY city?"
There are so many differences, yet it's an adaptaton based on life in NY.
Each religion took their doctrine and characters and myths and styles of magic powers and made their own version. Noting differences doesn't mean they didn't copy the Persians.

Scholarship is certain they took many myths and made them their own.


During the period of the Second Temple (c. 515 BC – 70 AD), the Hebrew people lived under the rule of first the Persian Achaemenid Empire, then the Greek kingdoms of the Diadochi, and finally the Roman Empire.[32] Their culture was profoundly influenced by those of the peoples who ruled them.[32] Consequently, their views on existence after death were profoundly shaped by the ideas of the Persians, Greeks, and Romans.[33][34] The idea of the immortality of the soul is derived from Greek philosophy[34] and the idea of the resurrection of the dead is derived from Persian cosmology.[34] By the early first century AD, these two seemingly incompatible ideas were often conflated by Hebrew thinkers.[34] The Hebrews also inherited from the Persians, Greeks, and Romans the idea that the human soul originates in the divine realm and seeks to return there.[32] The idea that a human soul belongs in Heaven and that Earth is merely a temporary abode in which the soul is tested to prove its worthiness became increasingly popular during the Hellenistic period (323 – 31 BC).[29] Gradually, some Hebrews began to adopt the idea of Heaven as the eternal home of the righteous dead.[29]


"Judaism was heavily influenced by Zoroastrianism, the religion of the Achaemenids.[27][8][28] Jewish conceptions of Satan were impacted by Angra Mainyu,[8][29] the Zoroastrian god of evil, darkness, and ignorance.[8] In the Septuagint, the Hebrew ha-Satan in Job and Zechariah is translated by the Greek word diabolos (slanderer), the same word in the Greek New Testament from which the English word "devil" is derived""

The Hebrew Bible calls Satan the same word that he's called in the New Testament. The concept of Satan as the devil exists as early as the book of Job and Zechariah. Neither author mentions Satan being on a divine council of holy angels. Satan appearing with the angels doesn't mean that he isn't a fallen angel.

 

[Skywalker]

Yup. They have a conversation and God allows Satan to cause trouble.:

Yahweh asks one of them, "the satan", where he has been, to which he replies that he has been roaming around the earth.[21] Yahweh asks, "Have you considered My servant Job?"[21] The satan replies by urging Yahweh to let him torture Job, promising that Job will abandon his faith at the first tribulation.[22] Yahweh consents;



And


In 2 Samuel 24, Yahweh sends the "Angel of Yahweh" to inflict a plague against Israel for three days, killing 70,000 people as punishment

Yahweh "sends"?. Horrible myths.Yes they worked together.

The destroying angel is not Satan. Satan is a fallen angel and God judges Israel to punish David after taking a census when Satan tempted him but that doesn't mean that Satan is the destroying angel.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Even the most fair judge has to be just.

Yes, too bad the God of the Bible is so unfair. You make this too easy at times.

The Hebrew Bible calls Satan the same word that he's called in the New Testament. The concept of Satan as the devil exists as early as the book of Job and Zechariah. Neither author mentions Satan being on a divine council of holy angels. Satan appearing with the angels doesn't mean that he isn't a fallen angel.

Satan in the Bible evolves throughout the stories.

 

[Skywalker]

Yes, too bad the God of the Bible is so unfair. You make this too easy at times.




Satan in the Bible evolves throughout the stories.

Where does that Job mention that Satan is a regular angel and part of a divine council? Job called Satan the slanderer-the same title used in the New Testament.

 

[Skywalker]

Yes, too bad the God of the Bible is so unfair. You make this too easy at times.




Satan in the Bible evolves throughout the stories.

The details of certain concepts are elaborated on in the teachings of Jesus but they are still in the Old Testament. Psalm 23:6 mentions Heaven and Psalm 9:17 mentions hell.

Psalm 23:6

Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life: and I will dwell in the house of the Lord for ever.

Psalm 9:17

The wicked shall be turned into hell, and all the nations that forget God.

 

[Skywalker]

Yup, Jesus says "eternal fire" for non-believ

The idea of the immortality of the soul is derived from Greek philosophy[34] and the idea of the resurrection of the dead is derived from Persian cosmology.

Hell being literally fire is not mentioned in the Bible. Fire means the state of torment from being separated from God and the purpose that one was created for-to know God.