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Featured Why Didn't God Leave Huge Quantities of Secular Evidence For Jesus?

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by SeekingAllTruth, Dec 25, 2020.

  1. Skywalker

    Skywalker Well-Known Member

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    Gibrah is the Hebrew word that refers to the grave. A Biblical Examination of Hell -By Dr. Max D. Younce, Th.D

     
  2. Skywalker

    Skywalker Well-Known Member

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    Zoroaster being called the Messiah has a different meaning than Jesus being called the Messiah. Five Reasons Christianity Did Not Copy Mystery Religions | SES

    There also isn't a clear doctrine in Zoroastrianism about Zoroaster being the Messiah, like there's a clear doctrine about the second coming of Christ in Christianity and Messianic Judaism.
     
  3. Skywalker

    Skywalker Well-Known Member

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    Dionysus was not born of a virgin.

    Debunking The Jesus/Dionysus Connection | Reasons for Jesus

     
  4. Skywalker

    Skywalker Well-Known Member

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    Dionysus was not a Savior in the belief systems of his religion. Debunking The Jesus/Dionysus Connection | Reasons for Jesus

     
  5. Skywalker

    Skywalker Well-Known Member

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    Judaism was in ancient times and is not a faith open to other belief systems. 22 Reasons All Scholars Agree Jesus Is Not A Copy Of Pagan Gods | Reasons for Jesus

     
  6. SeekingAllTruth

    SeekingAllTruth Well-Known Member

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    Well, sez you and that apologist writing that article.
     
  7. joelr

    joelr Well-Known Member

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  8. joelr

    joelr Well-Known Member

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    That isn't in question. Satan is described as an Angel of Yahweh and Yahweh sends him to inflict plagues and so on.
    Thhis idea of God working with Satan changed after the Persian period and Satan became more like the Persian devil.

    "The idea of Satan as an opponent of God and a purely evil figure seems to have taken root in Jewish pseudepigrapha during the Second Temple Period,[31] particularly in the apocalypses.["

    "Judaism was heavily influenced by Zoroastrianism, the religion of the Achaemenids.[27][8][28] Jewish conceptions of Satan were impacted by Angra Mainyu,[8][29] the Zoroastrian god of evil, darkness, and ignorance.[8] In the Septuagint, the Hebrew ha-Satan in Job and Zechariah is translated by the Greek word diabolos (slanderer), the same word in the Greek New Testament from which the English word "devil" is derived"

    wiki on Satan
     
  9. joelr

    joelr Well-Known Member

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    I don't know what you mean by "biblical"? That is what we were talking about? Before the Persians Satan in the bible was a different character then after the Persian period Satan took on the characteristics of the Persian devil. Everything we are talking about is in the Bible? The Bible is where they wrote the myths down. The Persian's has their own scripture.

    God doesn't do anything because he is a character in an ancient book just like all the other Gods.
     
  10. joelr

    joelr Well-Known Member

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    Wow, this apologetics article actually has a blatant lie in the actual title!? They just don't care?

    I've posted links to 2 biblical scholars explaining the similarities to Jesus and pagan demigods. All historians know of the similarities. We also have 1st century Christian apologists saying they are similar.
    When religions take new myths they don't announce they are going to copy stories from other Gods? Slowly over time (the Persian invasion was like 300 years long) religious leaders would pretend to get "messages from their God" and gguess what, they are getting a savior also. Or they pour through old scripture and look for a passage they can re-interpret.
    Every religion does it but it's subtle.
    No religion is "open" to other religions?
     
  11. joelr

    joelr Well-Known Member

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    Why do we have to keep saying the same thing over and over? Jesus was a Jewish version of the savior demigod.
    The point is it's a savior who has come to save humanity and give them entry into the afterlife.


    NO Zoroaster wasn't the Messiah. If you actually read real sources you would know this. He predicted a world savior would come to save humanity and be virgin born. He predicted this around 6BC. The savior would be man but also divine.
     
  12. joelr

    joelr Well-Known Member

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    Way to answer post with a non-related topic?

    Dionysis isn't even mentioned in Carrier's article on virgin births?

    "Ra is born of a virgin mother, was not conceived sexually, and predates Christian mythology (by a lot). Perseus, too, is born of a virgin mother, was not conceived any more sexually than Jesus was (both Perseus and Jesus involve magical fluids impregnating their respective mothers), and also long predates Christian tradition (and was even acknowledged by early Christians themselves as doing so). Hephaestus was also in popular conception born of a virgin (albeit a magically reinstated virginity), was not conceived by any material means at all, and again in a tradition well antedating Christianity."

    Virgin Birth: It's Pagan, Guys. Get Over It. • Richard Carrier
     
  13. Skywalker

    Skywalker Well-Known Member

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    The Bible never says that Satan is the king of hell or hell is literally a place of fire and brimstone. We are all sinners. None of us are good. Is hell literally a place of fire and brimstone? | GotQuestions.org

     
    #1633 Skywalker, Feb 20, 2021
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2021
  14. Skywalker

    Skywalker Well-Known Member

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    Perseus was not born of a virgin. Perseus – Debunking Atheism


     
    #1634 Skywalker, Feb 20, 2021
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2021
  15. Skywalker

    Skywalker Well-Known Member

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    No pagan god died for the sins of the world. Perseus – Debunking Atheism

    Many in Zoroastrianism don't believe that that savior would be Zoroaster. Jesus Vs Zoroaster – Debunking The Alleged Parallels | Reasons for Jesus

     
  16. Skywalker

    Skywalker Well-Known Member

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    The essence can be the same with different details but that doesn't mean that the essence of the Bible is the same essence as that of pagan beliefs. None of them died for the sins of the world to save us from our own destruction.
     
  17. Skywalker

    Skywalker Well-Known Member

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    Correlation doesn't equal causation. Also, Zechariah wrote of Satan the same way that Job wrote about Satan. https://www.enterthebible.org/Contr...ourcebox.aspx?selected_rid=341&original_id=56

     
  18. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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    That article does not seem to refute the claim that Perseus was born of a virgin. Rather it appears to support the myth.


    By the way if you want to claim that some of the Roman Gods were not the product of a virgin birth then by the same standards Jesus's birth was not a virgin birth either.
     
  19. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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  20. Skywalker

    Skywalker Well-Known Member

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    The destroying angel is a different being from Satan. Destroying angel (Bible) - Wikipedia

    Job 2:3 doesn't describe God and Satan working together.

     
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