Why Didn't God Leave Huge Quantities of Secular Evidence For Jesus?

[joelr]

Do you know why you cannot produce an argument of your own against anything that has been stated about God and the bible? You don't have one of your own.

For the same reason I cannot build my own airplane, do my own surgery and conduct an orchestra. There are experts who evaluated evidence and then explain it to laypeople. How dare you expect me to produce all original work yet literally every post you link to an article by an amateur historian apologist and your post is just the summary of the article?
How hypocritical can it get?
But, I did produce my own version of the arguments. What you are doing is the opposite of what truth requires. You want to take arguments using scholarship and frame them as some sort of negative (are you in the dark ages?) yet source ancient myths that have zero evidence for them being true. Then when we examine evidence that they appear to be myth taken from older myths you attempt to frame this as inauthentic?
This is just pure flat-earth logic.

Do you think at the SLAC supercollider scientists are like "hey man don't you have any of your OWN physics? All you do is use Einstein and Heisenburg and stuff?"

More truthful and to the point you cannot find an argument belonging to another to substantiate anything you are saying in your statement above.

Hmm, I thought I sourced everything I said? I linked to several historians. Carrier, Ehrman, Boyce, Thompson....? Are you just trying to be as incorrect as possible now?

EDUCATED PEOPLE... who in the world who has risen to high places has not been educated. Jesus Christ was educated in the WORD of GOD. He never attended any schools to be taught what he knew, 2,000 years later he is known all over the world before the news media we know today. His miracles and those his followers perform today... are they explained by the academics of the world or by men of faith?

Yes they are explained. They are the same stories as the miracles of Krishna or the messages from Moroni or even the miracles from Sai Baba who performed miracles in modern times. They are stories. Great stories but not real.
The authors of the gospels were educated on the Jewish scripture for sure. That's why in the 1st gospel written they copied OT narratives and put Jesus in them.

In truth we could go through this complete post and at the end of it, we would still remain with the fact "God did it" never being disproved. What do you expect from your science Joelr when it comes to God and the Bible? The truth is there is NOTHING that science can give you. So forgive me if I feel useless arguments endears and enriches no one.

And at the end of the day you can never prove Zeus didn't do it. Or Moroni didn't give special messages to Joseph Smith. But we can evaluate evidence and see how probable it is. It's not for everyone. Some people just want to believe in their story of choice regardless of facts and evidence. For those honestly searching for truth empiricism can help them. For those who only want to believe ancient tales then great, avoid critical thinking and evidence and do your thing.

Look up all the miracles in believers lives and ask why your science has no answers and cannot do what God can.

What miracle? I just watched a tornado survivor express that it was a miracle she survived. Yet entire families died close by.
Guess what's most likely? The tornado winds were not strong enough at her house to destroy it. Or did God decide to take all the other families with children and leave the special middle age lady? A miracle candidate would be someone growing back a leg. Parting an ocean may also work.
All the other ridiculous confirmation bias stories are just that. Yes when people get seriously ill and they have only 20% chance of survival they will call it a miracle if they survive. But for every `100 people in that spot there will be 20 survivors. No miracle.

IYou call God and the Bible a fallacy yet those educated men you talk about have you swear to God, before God and on his bible in the courts of law etc.

Oath of allegiance
“I, _________ , do swear by Almighty God that I will be faithful and bear true allegiance to Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth the Second, her heirs and successors, according to law.”

Do you think it accidentally slipped in there because they were uneducated scholars?

Strawman. The Roman army swore allegiance to Mithras before 3AD. It was still a myth. We are all aware religion slipped into all aspects of society in the middle ages. Doesn't mean it's real. You don't think Hindu do the same?
Also these people may be educated but they are not historians and many may be atheist or Hindu or Buddhist or Sikh? This example makes no real point. You are talking about formal tradition formed a long time ago when beliefs in deities was more accepted without question.

Education does not guarantee you will make the right decision about God. Just as education and science cannot disprove his existence or the fact so much has been attained and greatness of Countries has been at the hands of those who believed in God and his word,

Really? The Israelites followed Yahweh who you think is God yet were invaded by several cultures?
You don't imagine the countries who were invaded by Germany in WW2 and lost hundreds of thousands of civillians or millions were Christian?
Education cannot disprove Thor either. But it can show where the stories came from, that no archeological evidence backs up the stories, that they were not written as history but like other religions were written as myths and there are no outside confirmations of the events that supposedly happened. Science can help you think for yourself and make educated descisions. Just because you go to a place of worship and they tell you psuedo-history doesn't mean it's our actual best guess at truth?

Science cannot now and never has been able to disprove creation in the bible or where the first life on earth came from.
Mankind makes up excuses and the truth is in the words of Christ. "Man shall not live by bread alone but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God." If God caused all the fruit/food providing trees and plants away as well as the animals. then how would man survive? Everything man relies on outside his creator would be worth nothing.

But we can see the creation myths are taken from Mesopotamian myths. We can see they don't match scientific explanations and were extremely likely to have been written by humans rather than a God. Somehow they mirror the exact science and cosmology that was popular among all cultures?

Humans evolved from mammals who ate plants and then meat.Inserting a God in the mix, especially for food is simply not needed? The Greeks also likely gave thanks for Zeus giving fish and trees and animals so humans could eat. Mythical gods are unproven and are nowhere to be found.

All these years on we still rely on the earth to provide our food source. Why has 'climate change' not caused failure of the earth to provide our worldly daily bread.

Because climate change hasn't peaked. Weird thing to say when we just had a pandemic taking away millions? Had it been a more lethal virus it could have seriously halted civilization. We have not forgotten the nurse who wore no mask because Jesus had her back as well as several preachers who all got the virus.

Not till the time of the end will man cease to exist and live as we know it. Science will have nothing to do with that? The evidence is before your eyes. That God does as he promises. But you have to read the book to know why that is true. Have a good day.

Read it. Most of Yahweh's claims didn't come true. The Israelites just kept being invaded. It's the opposite of what is promised.
You can believe Persian mysticism all you want. I'm looking for evidence that suggests it's true even just a tiny bit.
Preaching your beliefs just means you have an emotional attachment and are not interested in evidence and what's likely to be true. Everyone is free to ignore reality and believe ancient stories. The thread is about a lack of evidence.

 

[joelr]

Surely not believing in an area of science which cannot prove itself?

You say you don't believe in the bible contents but believe artifacts from that age exist?

Bible contents are mainly religious syncretism - borrowed myths re-worked for a new culture. All cultures of the time and region had similar mysticism and laws.

If an artifact could prove History why don't they tell us of the events of that time?
The bible is not just an history book. It is a book which provides answers no one can disprove and how man and God came to have a relationship together.

And so are the Hindu scriptures and Islamic scriptures and the gospels of the Greek and Persian Gods? Yet they are probably fictional Gods but the messages have meaning. What you are saying doesn't demonstrate that reading scripture as literal events is likely in any way?

You see you try to tell me that bible is wrong but logic and understanding of the human race tells us that Genesis had to be right about the first humans. They could not have been babies but created an adult. An adult which would by our sciences show them mature but in reality a day old unlike a new baby being a day old.

Oh my. Evolutionary change from the species before human (H. Hidelbergensis) took place not over one evening but thousands of years. The hominid species before us was using tools, wearing clothes, burying their dead and probably had a language. That is the science. Whatever you are concocting from reading mythic tales taken from the Mesopotamians I'm just not interested in. You would have to actually want to understand where science is and why.

Do you think you could put mature humans, animals and plants on a bunch of gases?
I know why I believe the bible because it makes perfect sense that the earth had to be created mature to house the people and animals. TODAY.... Science has no answers or proof of first life. Just as they cannot understand the difference between creator and evolution.

There are many types of radio dating (not just the one fundamentalists like to cite), we know the earth is billions of years old. As is simple life. Our current understanding of self-replicating chemicals is growing every year. We have now seen replicating amino acids replicate with a nucleobase and so on. I have to re-read the experiment. we are getting closer to the origins of life. Evolution contains several theories. If you reject science at that level I just don't care. It's like arguing with a flat-earther. Facts are not going to change emotional attachments

Man has toiled long trying to prove his own ideas about us being here. But Gods words trumps him every time showing there can be no other explanation.

Except evolution is an extremely detailed theory (maybe one day you will actually bother to examine it?) Yahweh's words sound like stories created by Bronze age people riffing off earlier myths. Yahweh is also always wrong about the future and the Israelite people. Sounds like ancient made-up tales.

Some people cannot stand up for fear of what others think about their religious beliefs.
With God he and his truth stand alone and his people are not required because the evidence stands and speaks for itself.

What evidence? 2 creations myths taken from Mesopotamian stories? Noah's Ark basically following Gilamesh exactly?
Persian and Greek myths? Exodus is now considered a national foundation myth. The Israelites will rule the world?
There isn't evidence that it's real but there is evidence that it's fiction.

Useless, arguments like the age of the earth etc. The fact is that God gives the only superior and logical answer to why Man and Why the earth etc.

If for you 2 opposing creation stories clearly taken from older myths are better than science then great. some people believe in alien abductions and ufos working with the government. Or some have a different religion with different Gods. None of them care about empirical evidence but rather use confirmation bias and rejection of science (which gave them cars, airplanes, medical technology, computers, cell phones), but right, you have "no use" for science. If you feel a myth gives a better answer why humans are here then ok? I don't care about science rejecters and more than flat earthers. Too far removed from reality to have a constructive conversation.

 

[night912]

Science supports that the universe was created. Randomness cannot create such order and purpose that exists in the universe. For example, if earth was a little closer to the sun, life on earth wouldn't be able to survive. The Big Ruckus Over the Big Bang - BreakPoint

I don't know why so many people still believe this. Year after year, it's been proven that what you stated above in bold, is wrong.

FIY,
Every year when the earth makes one cycle around the sun, it gets a little closer and little further from the sun, compared to its average distance from the sun. The explanation for this is because, earth's orbit around the sun is elliptical. Earth gets closer to the sun every year, and every single year till now, life on earth still thrives.

 

[Skywalker]

I don't know why so many people still believe this. Year after year, it's been proven that what you stated above in bold, is wrong.

FIY,
Every year when the earth makes one cycle around the sun, it gets a little closer and little further from the sun, compared to its average distance from the sun. The explanation for this is because, earth's orbit around the sun is elliptical. Earth gets closer to the sun every year, and every single year till now, life on earth still thrives.

The earth is fine tuned. Why Our Unique Solar System Points to God

In addition to the Earth's size and structure, consider its orbit, which is almost circular. If the orbit were more elliptical, then the Earth would either be too hot when it approached the Sun or too cold when it moved far away. If the radius of the Earth’s orbit were changed by ± 5% animal life would not be possible. The zone for animal life in the solar system is very narrow.
From these arguments one can conclude that only a very, very tiny fraction of stars would have just the right conditions for intelligent life as we know it to exist on a planet orbiting them. In our universe, primitive life is likely, but intelligent life is far more rare. When faced with the extremely low probability of these facts being a random occurrence one can look for explanations like the multiverse, which, while lacking any empirical evidence, posits millions of alternative universes. But in my own case I believe that the facts definitely point in the same direction that Fr. Spitzer discusses in his post, namely a super intellectual Creator.

 

[1213]

Why didn't God leave behind a huge trove of secular evidence for Jesus having lived on earth,....

Any evidence there could be, could be called non-secular, if it supports that Jesus was on earth. I think there is no good reason to have more evidence, it would not make any good change, wouldn’t turn people more righteous.

 

[SeekingAllTruth]

Any evidence there could be, could be called non-secular, if it supports that Jesus was on earth. I think there is no good reason to have more evidence, it would not make any good change, wouldn’t turn people more righteous.

It would turn more of them into believers, however. I used to be a believer. When I learned there isn't any objective secular evidence for Jesus, or the 12 apostles--I mean NOTHING, zilch 100% lacking---that's when I lost belief in Jesus. The more I studied the more I realized Jesus was merely an avatar chosen by the newly forming religion being called christianity. Every religion needs a figurehead to worship or revere and Jesus was theirs. You don't need evidence a mascot ever existed in order to worship it.

 

[night912]

The earth is fine tuned. Why Our Unique Solar System Points to God

What's the difference between the possibility/probability of 1% and 0% chance of an event occurring? The answer is, 1% means that the event can occur, while 0% means that it can't.

Here's something for you to ponder at.

Did the designer designed the universe first or life? If the universe was first, then why would the designer not fine tuned life to be able to survive the vast area of the universe? If life was first, then why would the designer fine tuned nearly the whole universe to not be able to sustain life?

 

[joelr]

The earth is fine tuned. Why Our Unique Solar System Points to God

Except there are billions of solar systems to choose from. Not only that, we have already seen a planet in the "goldylocks zone" around a different sun and it may have water. Just from looking at local solar systems? Never mind the millions of other galaxies?
If you actually try to educate yourself instead of learning pseudo-science from apologetics you might actually learn things about the real world.

 

[1213]

It would turn more of them into believers, however. I used to be a believer. ...

Yes, but that is not useful, if you are not righteous. Even demons believe that God is, do you think it is some way helpful for them?

You believe that God is one. You do well. The demons also believe, and shudder.
James 2:19

Bible tells eternal life is for righteous. If believing doesn’t turn you into righteous, it is not useful. And actually, I think person who doesn’t believe that Jesus exists, could be more righteous than person who believes, if the non-believer is still loyal/faithful to the teachings of God, like for example “don’t murder"…

Righteous

 

[Skywalker]

What's the difference between the possibility/probability of 1% and 0% chance of an event occurring? The answer is, 1% means that the event can occur, while 0% means that it can't.

Here's something for you to ponder at.

Did the designer designed the universe first or life? If the universe was first, then why would the designer not fine tuned life to be able to survive the vast area of the universe? If life was first, then why would the designer fine tuned nearly the whole universe to not be able to sustain life?

The earth is unique. God does everything with an order and a purpose. The earth has a different order and purpose than other planets in the universe, but God created all things for a reason. Revelation 4:11 Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.

Earth Topic

A Unique Planet
We tend to take for granted the healthfulness of the air around us as long as we get the oxygen we need. We don’t pay much attention to the other elements even though oxygen makes up only 21% of our atmosphere. The bulk of the atmosphere consists of nitrogen (78%), and the remaining 1% is a mixture of trace materials. What is all that nitrogen doing in the atmosphere?

Journey to the Center
Our modern economy depends on a correct understanding of the earth, as we incessantly search for oil and essential minerals, and predict deadly earthquakes or volcanic eruptions. Moreover, the modern debate about the origin of the solar system revolves in part around what makes up the earth’s interior.

Our Beautiful Home
Over three days, God gave form to the sky, sea, and land. Included in the original material of creation was water, out of which God created the earth. This unique planet had just the right mix of chemicals and the right mass to hold a life-sustaining atmosphere.

Global Warming in Perspective
Planet earth—theplace over six billion people call home. We are bombarded with ideas on how to go green, save the polar bears, and reduce our carbon footprint. Global warming remains at the forefront thanks to the media and politicians. It can be confusing for Christians who are called to be wise stewards of God’s creation.

 

[Skywalker]

Having a relationship with God is not manmade. Religion is manmade. God died on the cross so that our sins could be covered and that when God looks at us he doesn't see our sin. Sin is real. We know that some behaviors are respectful of oneself and others and some are not. Our laws and our conscience comes from God.

 

[SeekingAllTruth]

Having a relationship with God is not manmade. Religion is manmade. God died on the cross so that our sins could be covered and that when God looks at us he doesn't see our sin. Sin is real. We know that some behaviors are respectful of oneself and others and some are not. Our laws and our conscience comes from God.

I'm going to correct some of your errors: God did not die on a cross, IMHO. There's no such thing as sins being covered because there's no such things as sins, there's only right and wrong. There's no such thing as sin. All this is man-made dogmas according to what the church leaders determined what was best for THEM, not you. God is deist, IMHO based on what I observe. Consequently God didn't give us a blessed thing. Societies evolved laws over long periods of time according to how they observed behaviors that were good and bad for their survival.

 

[Skywalker]

I'm going to correct some of your errors: God did not die on a cross, IMHO. There's no such thing as sins being covered because there's no such things as sins, there's only right and wrong. There's no such thing as sin. All this is man-made dogmas according to what the church leaders determined what was best for THEM, not you. God is deist, IMHO based on what I observe. Consequently God didn't give us a blessed thing. Societies evolved laws over long periods of time according to how they observed behaviors that were good and bad for their survival.

Why do you think Jesus wasn't God? Quetzacoatl was not born of a virgin. https://reasonsforjesus.com/jesus-vs-quetzacoatl-debunking-the-alleged-parallels/

1. Were born of virgins.I and a research associate find no verification at all for this. The account of Quetz’s birth that we find is that a goddess named Coatlicue saw one evening a feather of many colors flying down from the sky. She picked it up to keep; later it disappeared and she became very upset. Soon she realized that she was pregnant. Coatlicue gave birth to the sun (and war) god, Huitzilopoachitli.
   This is as much “virginal” as Zeus leaving his seed in a pomegranate a woman puts in her lap. (See on this pp. 492-497 of World Mythology: An Anthology of the Great Myths and Epics by Donna Rosenberg.) Carrasco reports a pre-Columbian story of Quetz being born from a stone knife, followed by 16 of his guises and powers. Florescano [39] reports a story of Quetz being engendered when his mother swallowed a green stone.

 

[SeekingAllTruth]

Why do you think Jesus wasn't God?

Jesus, if he existed was an ordinary zealot who was crucified by Rome. End of story. He was later deified by churchmen because they needed a figurehead for their new religion that could be worshiped.

 

[Skywalker]

Jesus, if he existed was an ordinary zealot who was crucified by Rome. End of story. He was later deified by churchmen because they needed a figurehead for their new religion that could be worshiped.

The apostles didn't make up stories about Jesus. They had nothing to gain and everything to lose. People make up stories for money, sex, and power. The Apostles could have recanted when they were persecuted but they didn't. All of the apostles except for the apostle John were executed for their faith in Jesus.

 

[SeekingAllTruth]

The apostles didn't make up stories about Jesus. They had nothing to gain and everything to lose. People make up stories for money, sex, and power. The Apostles could have recanted when they were persecuted but they didn't. All of the apostles except for the apostle John were executed for their faith in Jesus.

How do you know the apostles were persecuted/executed? What history book did you get that out of? You're aware I'm sure that even the Bible doesn't account for how 10 of the apostles died, much less a single historical record.

 

[Skywalker]

How do you know the apostles were persecuted/executed? What history book did you get that out of? You're aware I'm sure that even the Bible doesn't account for how 10 of the apostles died, much less a single historical record.

Clement and Polycarp and Tertullian and Eusebius mentioned Paul's persecution. Paul easily could have recanted his conversion to Christianity but he chose not to because he had an experience with the risen Jesus. Paul’s Radical Conversion To Christianity | Reasons for Jesus

Paul was clearly willing to suffer for his faith as is multiply & independently attested. From our early New Testament writings Paul’s suffering is attested by his authentic letters (1 Corinthians etc.), disputed letters (2 Timothy etc.) and by Acts.

That is at least three independent traditions attesting to his persecution and willingness to suffer for the risen Jesus. We should clarify one detail, however. To have two or three independent sources on Paul’s suffering depends on whether or not one holds that 2 Timothy is an authentic or disputed epistle of Paul’s. According to roughly 80% of scholars 2 Timothy was not authored by Paul (3).

We will accept this consensus, and therefore we have three independent sources from within our New Testament attesting to the persecution and suffering of Paul. According to theologian Chris Price:

“Most striking perhaps is that fact that Jesus appeared to Paul. Paul hated Christians and was hell-bent on destroying the church. What transformed him from a persecutor of Christians to a pastor, who was willing to endure extraordinary hardship to proclaim the Gospel? Paul claimed it was the resurrection. This also indicates that Jesus didn’t just appear to friends or followers who might have been predisposed to think high and exalted things about him. Christ appeared to skeptics (James) and unbelievers (Paul) and they were convinced based on the reality of the resurrection” (4).

Nonetheless, beyond our three independent New Testament sources we have further confirmation of Paul’s sufferings and eventual death at the hands of the Romans. Clement of Rome tells us that “[Paul] after being seven times thrown into captivity, compelled to flee, and stoned…and suffered martyrdom under the prefects” (5).

This is early as Clement was writing around the mid-90’s AD, thus putting it on par with our final NT writings of John and Revelation. Further, Polycarp attests to Paul’s martyrdom (6), as does Tertullian who tells us that “Paul was beheaded” (7). Later, Eusebius quotes Dionysius of Corinth as well as Origin regarding Paul’s martyrdom (8).

 

[rational experiences]

Humans as humans living on God earth one planet inside it's heavens after garden body of wood says I am worthy.

To make that human claim a human condition opposed it. Self human worthiness meaning humans created a reason to argue for human life presence.

A theist science human quotes when only nothing existed.

God the earth as a planet can never not exist the thought as nothing does not allow a planet its natural presence.

Quantified as a human teaching. Human consciousness via caused changes to Ch gases that once arose out of body God planet earth from an earth penis.

False sex inferred planet God O earth conceiving it's gas spirit heavens in space womb.

Extension from body volcano.

As we do live on earth as beginning volcano to go back in time by science human thesis is to a volcano. We live inside heavens

We do not live inside God stone earth O.

As we live in the heavens standing upon the body God. A planet.

How it was taught.

Science says zero nothing and means it in a thesis. Waiting for it to rationally irrationally to occur to God and life. The planet.

Even express theories quantifying it.

The thesis is God earth rationally first.

Yet it was implied to earths fused body the teaching. Sealed stone.

For a human living organic life is a science human theist first.

Self combustion the zero removal of a total living life form known wholly was his outcome. As a human never owned maths zero. As a space no body meaning of zero.

What the warning was about. Falsification of created existence in maths science. False female theme space womb.

To be a non human was a zero nuclear self combustion. Why humans hated scientists and named them Satanists.

The truth was lived and learnt.

The evidence ......

Jesus owned no evidence as it was a place in human history of destruction removal. Of bio organic pre lived presence.

A name Jesus can be factored by letters Symbolised placed inside a O circle and thought about as Phi. As recognition in a study of letters given a number.

Angles angels letters expressed as angles by number factor. A science word inference. Yet the word is not a letter not a circle not a number.

Words were human spoken first about natural.

As words were spoken first. Natural bodies are not any circle.

Words owned letters.

Letters were given a number why the Bible speech is proven truly incomprehensible as sensible reasoning. It was Factored. Rhetoric a theme of reasoning.

Advices a human Phi theorist caused life to be sacrificed and Jesus was the given factored answer. The answer a factoring. Why Jesus was a title given by a spiritual man life inferred by science harmed in his thesis bible revelations about life sacrificed.

By a God who never owned life sacrificed. Natural life self owned healthy in its naturally expressed form was not diagnosed by machines like they do today. DNA.

Supported life existing. God earth natural history about God. And science never owned a theory. Otherwise a human would claim I invented life by my thinking.

As a known human lying status.

Not rational scientists at all.

Science as it's history a human reason for a lot of chosen human mistakes.

 

[SeekingAllTruth]

Clement and Polycarp and Tertullian and Eusebius mentioned Paul's persecution. Paul easily could have recanted his conversion to Christianity but he chose not to because he had an experience with the risen Jesus. Paul’s Radical Conversion To Christianity | Reasons for Jesus

Please don't dodge the question: how do you know that the 12 original apostles were executed for their faith when there isn't a single historical document including the Bible that mentions how at least 11 of them died?

 

[Skywalker]

Please don't dodge the question: how do you know that the 12 original apostles were executed for their faith when there isn't a single historical document including the Bible that mentions how at least 11 of them died?

The Bible and other historical documents talk about how the apostle dies. When and how did the Twelve Apostles die? – Amazing Bible Timeline with World History

Simon Called Peter by Christ died 33-34 years after the death of Christ. According to Smith’s Bible Dictionary, there is "satisfactory evidence that he and Paul were the founders of the church at Rome and died in that city. The time and manner of the apostle’s martyrdom are less certain. According to the early writers, he died at or about the same time with Paul, and in the Neronian persecution, A.D. 67,68. All agree that he was crucified. Origen says that Peter felt himself to be unworthy to be put to death in the same manner as his Master, and was, therefore, at his request, crucified with his head downward."
James the son of Zebedee: He was put to death by Herod Agrippa I shortly before the day of the Passover, in the year 44 or about 11 years after the death of Christ. From Acts 12: 1-2.

John: No death date given by early writers. Death date is by conjecture only and is variously assigned as being between 89 AD to 120 AD

Andrew: No accurate death date given. A variety of traditions says he preached in Scythia, in Greece, in Asia Minor and Thrace. He is reported to have been crucified at Patrae in Achaia.

Phillip: Again, the Bible does not say when he died nor do we have accurate information. According to tradition, he preached in Phrygia and died at Hierapolis. Update: FoxNews July 27, 2011, Tomb of the Apostle Phillip is found in Hierapolis.

Bartholomew: There is no information concerning his death, not even by tradition

Matthew: He must have lived many years as an apostle since he was the author of the Gospel of Matthew, which was written at least twenty years after the death of Christ. There is a reason to believe that he stayed for fifteen years at Jerusalem, after which he went as a missionary to the Persians, Parthians and Medes. There is a legend that he died a martyr in Ethiopia.

Thomas: The earlier traditions, as believed in the fourth century, say he preached in Parthia or Persia and was finally buried at Edessa. The later traditions carry him farther east. His martyrdom whether in Persia or India, is said to have been by a lance. And is commemorated by the Latin Church on December 21 the Greek Church on October 6, and by the Native Americans on July 1.

James Alpheus: We know he lived at least five years after the death of Christ because of mentions in the Bible. According to tradition, James son of Alpheus was thrown down from the temple by the scribes and Pharisees; he was then stoned, and his brains dashed out with a fuller’s club.

Simon the Canaanite – No information either in the Bible or by tradition.

Jude (Thaddeus): according to tradition Jude taught in Armenia, Syria and Persia where he was martyred. Tradition tells us he was buried in Kara Kalisa in what is now Iran.

Judas Iscariot: Shortly after the death of Christ Judas killed himself. According to the Bible he hanged himself, (Matthew 27:5) at Aceldama, on the southern slope of the valley of Hinnom, near Jerusalem, and in the act he fell down a precipice and was dashed into pieces.