Why Didn't God Leave Huge Quantities of Secular Evidence For Jesus?

[Subduction Zone]

God gave Adam and Eve free will to choose between right and wrong.

Right, your God screwed up. Didn't you read the myth?

 

[Skywalker]

Right, your God screwed up. Didn't you read the myth?

It's the same reason God created Lucifer-there is free will.

 

[Subduction Zone]

It's the same reason God created Lucifer-there is free will.

Right, in your myth God is to blame. There is no doubt about it.

 

[Skywalker]

Right, in your myth God is to blame. There is no doubt about it.

God gives people free will and they decide to do with the wrong thing with it, how is God to blame?

 

[Aupmanyav]

Bad things exist .. eat the herb of the field.

I am a strong atheist. You cannot expect me to believe in religious hog-wash.

 

[Skywalker]

I am a strong atheist. You cannot expect me to believe in religious hog-wash.

We are not sinners because we sin-we sin because we are sinners. Our hearts are twisted. Islamic theology about stop sinning you are no longer a sinner-is not biblical. Adam's sin is why sin and death entered the world. Death is not natural-man was created to live forever. Review of Adam the Fall and Original Sin - creation.com

Original Sin in biblical theology
James Hamilton examines Original Sin through the lens of biblical theology. He notes that the Torah teaches an originally ‘very good’ world, marred by Adam’s sin. And the consequences of Adam’s sin are shown in the narratives immediately following Genesis 3:

“… when Cain murders Abel, the reader knows that in Adam’s sin the dam was breached, burst, and the water can never be put back. The flood of sin has rushed out, leaving death in its wake (Gen. 4); then the genealogy in Genesis 5repeats again and again the awful refrain, ‘and he died’” (p. 192).
In other words, Adam’s sin is the explanation for all the sin and death we see reigning throughout Genesis and the rest of the Torah. Likewise, the rest of the Old Testament does not spell out why humans are sinful—because Genesis has already done that—but they assume humans are sinful.

The New Testament “assumes Adam was a historical person whose initial transgression had devastating consequences for all his descendants” (p. 206), which is especially clear in the writings of Paul. Furthermore, Revelation presents the defeat of the serpent, the ultimate triumph of Christ, and the restoration of creation to be even better than Eden was. Hamilton concludes: “Followers of Jesus will follow him in his understanding of the world’s origins, the world’s problems, and the resolution to the sin of Adam in the obedience of Jesus even unto death” (p. 208).

 

[Aupmanyav]

We are not sinners because we sin-we sin because we are sinners.
Our hearts are twisted.
Islamic theology about stop sinning you are no longer a sinner-is not biblical.
Adam's sin is why sin and death entered the world. Death is not natural-man was created to live forever.
Review of Adam the Fall and Original Sin - creation.com

Sure, you have your theories about sin and have no proof for it. I have my simple theory of sin from Hinduism is: "Paropakāram punyāya, pāpāya parapīdanam" (Helping others is merit, causing pain to others is sin). Since I am an atheist, I do not believe in any 'end of days', judgment by any imaginary entity, or reincarnation. If we engage in an evil deed, we suffer physically (if we are caught by the society and punished for our deed) or sometimes psychologically (if we do not have a twisted heart).
No, thankfully, I do not think my heart is twisted. I am a normal person.
Islamic theory of sin is not what you are describing here.
Death was here even before humans were here. Perhaps you will agree that when dinosaurs died, there were no humans on earth.
And again a link to some religious hog-wash, which I have mentioned that I neither read nor believe.

 

[Skywalker]

Sure, you have your theories about sin and have no proof for it. I have my simple theory of sin from Hinduism is: "Paropakāram punyāya, pāpāya parapīdanam" (Helping others is merit, causing pain to others is sin). Since I am an atheist, I do not believe in any 'end of days', judgment by any imaginary entity, or reincarnation. If we engage in an evil deed, we suffer physically (if we are caught by the society and punished for our deed) or sometimes psychologically (if we do not have a twisted heart).
No, thankfully, I do not think my heart is twisted. I am a normal person.
Islamic theory of sin is not what you are describing here.
Death was here even before humans were here. Perhaps you will agree that when dinosaurs died, there were no humans on earth.
And again a link to some religious hog-wash, which I have mentioned that I neither read nor believe.

Sin isnt just what causes obvious harm, it's any behavior that doesn't show respect for oneself and others. I believe in and end of days because Isaiah 5:20 says that in the end times what's wrong will be right and whats right will be wrong. When you read the Bible over and over again you notice things that you didn't notice before. Reincarnation is false teachings. Hebrews 9:27 says that it is appointed unto men once to die and after this the judgement. Even at our best we are not perfect we have weaknesses. That is why we need Jesus. No matter how hard we try we are still going to sin. Even the most holy person has sin.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Sure, reincarnation is wrong and so is the idea of any life after death. That is why I do not believe in any. All hog-wash.

 

[Skywalker]

Sure, reincarnation is wrong and so is the idea of any life after death. That is why I do not believe in any. All hog-wash.

Everyone is born knowing that there is something out there. Human beings were meant to know God and enjoy God forever, but we forget about that purpose because we are separated from God by sin. What does it mean that we have eternity in our hearts (Ecclesiastes 3:11)? | GotQuestions.org

Seasons come and go, but does anything in this life truly satisfy? The answer in Ecclesiastes is, no, all is vanity (Ecclesiastes 1:2). However, through all the ups and downs and vicissitudes of life, we have a glimpse of stability—God has “set eternity in the human heart.” Life is but a vapor (James 4:14), but we know there is something past this life. We have a divinely implanted awareness that the soul lives forever. This world is not our home.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Everyone is born knowing that there is something out there.
What does it mean that we have eternity in our hearts (Ecclesiastes 3:11)? | GotQuestions.org

Yeah, we know out there are upward of 125 billion galaxies (Google search, April 11, 2021), perhaps new ones germinating every moment.
Don't ply me with religious hogwash that I neither read nor believe.

 

[whosetosay...]

Framing scholarship as "utterances of others" rather than the most educated people agreeing on all available evidence is a complete strawman. Many of the actual history scholars were fundamentalist Christians first then realized it was not real. So your special pleading about only certain people's minds being open is another fallacy.
It's like one fallacy after another?

Do you know why you cannot produce an argument of your own against anything that has been stated about God and the bible? You don't have one of your own. More truthful and to the point you cannot find an argument belonging to another to substantiate anything you are saying in your statement above. EDUCATED PEOPLE... who in the world who has risen to high places has not been educated. Jesus Christ was educated in the WORD of GOD. He never attended any schools to be taught what he knew, 2,000 years later he is known all over the world before the news media we know today. His miracles and those his followers perform today... are they explained by the academics of the world or by men of faith?
In truth we could go through this complete post and at the end of it, we would still remain with the fact "God did it" never being disproved. What do you expect from your science Joelr when it comes to God and the Bible? The truth is there is NOTHING that science can give you. So forgive me if I feel useless arguments endears and enriches no one.
Look up all the miracles in believers lives and ask why your science has no answers and cannot do what God can.


You call God and the Bible a fallacy yet those educated men you talk about have you swear to God, before God and on his bible in the courts of law etc.

Oath of allegiance
“I, _________ , do swear by Almighty God that I will be faithful and bear true allegiance to Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth the Second, her heirs and successors, according to law.”

Do you think it accidentally slipped in there because they were uneducated scholars?

Education does not guarantee you will make the right decision about God. Just as education and science cannot disprove his existence or the fact so much has been attained and greatness of Countries has been at the hands of those who believed in God and his word,


Science cannot now and never has been able to disprove creation in the bible or where the first life on earth came from.
Mankind makes up excuses and the truth is in the words of Christ. "Man shall not live by bread alone but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God." If God caused all the fruit/food providing trees and plants away as well as the animals. then how would man survive? Everything man relies on outside his creator would be worth nothing.

All these years on we still rely on the earth to provide our food source. Why has 'climate change' not caused failure of the earth to provide our worldly daily bread. Not till the time of the end will man cease to exist and live as we know it. Science will have nothing to do with that? The evidence is before your eyes. That God does as he promises. But you have to read the book to know why that is true. Have a good day.

 

[whosetosay...]

Do Hindu people not exist? They do. But their scripture are still fictional stories designed to teach lessons.
Exodus is considered a national foundation myth. There are still Egyptians and Greek people. Their religions are not actually true stories?

Q: Questions about whether or not events in the Bible really happened evoke strong passions. As a biblical scholar, how do you see the issue of historical authenticity in terms of the earliest biblical accounts—the ones for which there is little archeological evidence?

Surely not believing in an area of science which cannot prove itself?

You say you don't believe in the bible contents but believe artifacts from that age exist?
If an artifact could prove History why don't they tell us of the events of that time?
The bible is not just an history book. It is a book which provides answers no one can disprove and how man and God came to have a relationship together.

You see you try to tell me that bible is wrong but logic and understanding of the human race tells us that Genesis had to be right about the first humans. They could not have been babies but created an adult. An adult which would by our sciences show them mature but in reality a day old unlike a new baby being a day old.
Do you think you could put mature humans, animals and plants on a bunch of gases?
I know why I believe the bible because it makes perfect sense that the earth had to be created mature to house the people and animals. TODAY.... Science has no answers or proof of first life. Just as they cannot understand the difference between creator and evolution.

Man has toiled long trying to prove his own ideas about us being here. But Gods words trumps him every time showing there can be no other explanation.

Some people cannot stand up for fear of what others think about their religious beliefs.
With God he and his truth stand alone and his people are not required because the evidence stands and speaks for itself.

Useless, arguments like the age of the earth etc. The fact is that God gives the only superior and logical answer to why Man and Why the earth etc.

 

[Skywalker]

Yeah, we know out there are upward of 125 billion galaxies (Google search, April 11, 2021), perhaps new ones germinating every moment.
Don't ply me with religious hogwash that I neither read nor believe.

Psalms 19:1 say that the heavens declare the glory of God. To the chief Musician, A Psalm of David. The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork. People say God didn't show himself to them, but when you look around creation, you see what God made. Proofs of God

Romans 1:20, “For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse.”

Volumes of books could be written evidencing irrefutable proofs of God. The universe itself is but one of thousands of awesome proofs of God. Romans 1:20 teaches us that the INVISIBLE things of God are CLEARLY seen by the things which are made, even His eternal power and Godhead. The universe around us is a constant testimony of God's greatness and power.

 

[Aupmanyav]

A Psalm of David. Proofs of God

I suppose you have a whole section in Bible devoted to that. But what is the proof of existence of God other than circular reasoning?

 

[Skywalker]

I suppose you have a whole section in Bible devoted to that. But what is the proof of existence of God other than circular reasoning?

Even though we don't see God, we see His creation all around us. When you look at your hand, don't you wonder how all of those joints work together and are so intricately designed?

 

[Aupmanyav]

What is the proof that the so-called creation is the handiwork of that entity? I do not even believe in a creation. According to my belief, Advaita, there is no creation. It is an illusion.

 

[Skywalker]

What is the proof that the so-called creation is the handiwork of that entity? I do not even believe in a creation. According to my belief, Advaita, there is no creation. It is an illusion.

What God created is not an illusion. Is Free Will an Illusion?

A recent experiment set out to determine whether we subconsciously make our choices before we consciously make them—that is, whether when our conscious mind makes decisions, it merely reflects subconscious decision-making beyond our control. Designed to go beyond a famous experiment of the 1980s that supposedly suggested free will was an illusion, John-Dylan Haynes of the Charité-Universitätsmedizin Berlin submitted 14 subjects to functional MRI scanning while they decided on which of two buttons to press.
The key was, the decision could be made at any time, but the volunteers were asked to report on the exact moment of their conscious choice as based on a “clocklike device in the scanner.” So what’s the big news? A brain pattern that coded for a left or right choice was located in the frontopolar cortex of the volunteers up to ten seconds before they made their decision about which button to press; the brain pattern successfully predicted the “conscious” decision about 60% of the time—in other words, it was wrong almost half of the time! That may appear to be a pretty successful rate (even if not perfect), but when you consider that random guessing should be right 50% of the time, this experiment suddenly seems much less revolutionary. Nonetheless, Haynes claims, “[T]here’s not very much space for operation of free will. The outcome of a decision is shaped very strongly by brain activity much earlier than the point in time when you feel to be making a decision.”1 Even U.S. National Institute of Neurological Disorders and Stroke neurologist Mark Hallett falls into the trap, with ScienceNOW reporting it confirmed his “understanding of free will as a perception rather than a driving force.”

What seems much more reasonable is that while subconscious motives do affect conscious choice, such that there is a connection between a subconscious brain signal and the final conscious decision, that doesn’t mean our consciousness is unable of carrying out, considering, or rejecting subconscious motivations.

 

[Aupmanyav]

What God created is not an illusion.

There is no God and no creation. Only quantas of energy that create patterns.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Do you know why you cannot produce an argument of your own against anything that has been stated about God and the bible? You don't have one of your own. More truthful and to the point you cannot find an argument belonging to another to substantiate anything you are saying in your statement above. EDUCATED PEOPLE... who in the world who has risen to high places has not been educated. Jesus Christ was educated in the WORD of GOD. He never attended any schools to be taught what he knew, 2,000 years later he is known all over the world before the news media we know today. His miracles and those his followers perform today... are they explained by the academics of the world or by men of faith?
In truth we could go through this complete post and at the end of it, we would still remain with the fact "God did it" never being disproved. What do you expect from your science Joelr when it comes to God and the Bible? The truth is there is NOTHING that science can give you. So forgive me if I feel useless arguments endears and enriches no one.
Look up all the miracles in believers lives and ask why your science has no answers and cannot do what God can.


You call God and the Bible a fallacy yet those educated men you talk about have you swear to God, before God and on his bible in the courts of law etc.

Oath of allegiance
“I, _________ , do swear by Almighty God that I will be faithful and bear true allegiance to Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth the Second, her heirs and successors, according to law.”

Do you think it accidentally slipped in there because they were uneducated scholars?

Education does not guarantee you will make the right decision about God. Just as education and science cannot disprove his existence or the fact so much has been attained and greatness of Countries has been at the hands of those who believed in God and his word,


Science cannot now and never has been able to disprove creation in the bible or where the first life on earth came from.
Mankind makes up excuses and the truth is in the words of Christ. "Man shall not live by bread alone but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God." If God caused all the fruit/food providing trees and plants away as well as the animals. then how would man survive? Everything man relies on outside his creator would be worth nothing.

All these years on we still rely on the earth to provide our food source. Why has 'climate change' not caused failure of the earth to provide our worldly daily bread. Not till the time of the end will man cease to exist and live as we know it. Science will have nothing to do with that? The evidence is before your eyes. That God does as he promises. But you have to read the book to know why that is true. Have a good day.

Science has disproved the creation myth in the Bible. And abiogenesis is much closer to being understood than you probably realize.

Of course proving the Bible wrong does not disprove God. It only disproves certain beliefs about God. If your God made only two people and had a worldwide flood that "God" has been disproved.