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Why did these kids die?

Shad

Veteran Member
That sounds like a non sequitur in the making.

Wrong. You presented no evidence, fact. You speculated on other sources of blame while acknowledging you had no evidence, fact. Try again.


No need. Either you are aware of the deaths that have occurred in government custody or you are not. Res ipsa loquitur.

Irrelevant and a point of no merit. We are talking about 2 specific children. Your statistics do not provide evidence for anything regarding those two children. Try again

I answered a question asked of me. That is not really a problem.

Sure it is. You have no evidence.

You have no way of proving that my speculation is incorrect, so it feels nicer for you to toss my whole argument away as speculation.

No one has an obligation to prove speculation is incorrect. You have provided no evidence to back your speculation. All I need to do is point that out and dismiss it. Try again


Well I am curious. What do you think are my "misguided principles?"

Your concept of responsibility includes those those that bear none in realityt. As per you trying to put responsibility on me for a government I never voted for.

My speculation was reasonable for all.

Nope as you had no evidence. Try again.
 

Curious George

Veteran Member
Wrong. You presented no evidence, fact. You speculated on other sources of blame while acknowledging you had no evidence, fact. Try again.




Irrelevant and a point of no merit. We are talking about 2 specific children. Your statistics do not provide evidence for anything regarding those two children. Try again



Sure it is. You have no evidence.



No one has an obligation to prove speculation is incorrect. You have provided no evidence to back your speculation. All I need to do is point that out and dismiss it. Try again




Your concept of responsibility includes those those that bear none in realityt. As per you trying to put responsibility on me for a government I never voted for.



Nope as you had no evidence. Try again.
I am not sure if you are aware, I needn't supply evidence. My speculation was requested, I provided my speculation.

It does not matter if you voted for the current administration or the past administrations. The fault is still ours to share.
 

Shad

Veteran Member
I am not sure if you are aware, I needn't supply evidence. My speculation was requested, I provided my speculation.

Evidence supports a point.

I didn't ask for speculation.

It does not matter if you voted for the current administration or the past administrations. The fault is still ours to share.

Nope. Heck I am not American. See how problematic your idea is? You do not even bother to get information about a person before assigning blame.
 

fantome profane

Anti-Woke = Anti-Justice
Premium Member
The good news is that this will be one of the first things to be investigated by the new Congress. These deaths, the conditions of these containment facilities, and how many children are still in the custody of the government.

Of all the investigations that are going to begin this is the most important and immediate.
 

Curious George

Veteran Member
Evidence supports a point.

I didn't ask for speculation.
Sure you did.

Nope. Heck I am not American. See how problematic your idea is? You do not even bother to get information about a person before assigning blame.
Yeah, i thought you were Canadian that is why I made clear earlier that it was U.S. citizens who shared in the responsibility. The way you suggested that I was trying to put the responsibility in you, gave me cause to assume that you were a U.S. citizen living or visiting Canada. Why else would you think I was trying to put the blame on you?
 

Shad

Veteran Member
Sure you did.

I didn't ask for your speculation. I asked for your view. I thought it would be something more than speculation but it wasn't


Yeah, i thought you were Canadian that is why I made clear earlier that it was U.S. citizens who shared in the responsibility. The way you suggested that I was trying to put the responsibility in you, gave me cause to assume that you were a U.S. citizen living or visiting Canada. Why else would you think I was trying to put the blame on you?

The principle is still absurd

Are blacks responsible for their treatment post Civil War America too?
 

Curious George

Veteran Member
I didn't ask for your speculation. I asked for your view. I thought it would be something more than speculation but it wasn't.
What we know about migrant children who died in U.S. custody
The principle is still absurd

Are blacks responsible for their treatment post Civil War America too?
All U.S. citizens are, in part responsible for the treatment of black people after the civil war. However, it is hard to cast the blame towards a specific group of people who were disenfranchised, and faced severe prejudice that was not simply policy based. But, black citizens that were capable of voting share in the responsibility of policies which they did not oppose at every step.

Now that I have answered your question, do you honestly not see the difference between focusing the blame on the victims of specific policies and laying that blame across a group that has the ability to effect change? Eventually many in the black community did help effect change. But why you think this smaller group deserves focused blame in your question as opposed to acknowledging that all people who shared in that blame seems to be for race baiting, rhetorical reasons.
 

Shad

Veteran Member
What we know about migrant children who died in U.S. custody

All U.S. citizens are, in part responsible for the treatment of black people after the civil war. However, it is hard to cast the blame towards a specific group of people who were disenfranchised, and faced severe prejudice that was not simply policy based. But, black citizens that were capable of voting share in the responsibility of policies which they did not oppose at every step.

Do note you provide a caveat of opposing yet when I used the same point you rejected it. Nice double-standard you have.

Now that I have answered your question, do you honestly not see the difference between focusing the blame on the victims of specific policies and laying that blame across a group that has the ability to effect change?

You obviously didn't see that difference until I forced you to. Nice double-standard you have.

Eventually many in the black community did help effect change. But why you think this smaller group deserves focused blame in your question as opposed to acknowledging that all people who shared in that blame seems to be for race baiting, rhetorical reasons.

Strawman. I never focused blamed. I asked a question to get the very double-standard you posted as your principle is flawed. I baited you and only you. Thanks for the fishes.
 

Curious George

Veteran Member
Do note you provide a caveat of opposing yet when I used the same point you rejected it. Nice double-standard you have.
It is not a double standard. I simply said that I disagree.

You obviously didn't see that difference until I forced you to. Nice double-standard you have.
Not really a double standard. I am merely noting the difference. You seem to think it was a fair comparison, i disagree.

Strawman. I never focused blamed. I asked a question to get the very double-standard you posted as your principle is flawed. I baited you and only you. Thanks for the fishes.
It is not a strawman, your question focused on a specific group. In other words, you did focus on a particular group.
 

Shad

Veteran Member
It is not a double standard. I simply said that I disagree.

It is as you rejected your own caveat when I used it weeks ago only to use for your argument.


Not really a double standard. I am merely noting the difference. You seem to think it was a fair comparison, i disagree.

It is a double-standard as you rejected opposing when I used the point weeks ago.


It is not a strawman, your question focused on a specific group. In other words, you did focus on a particular group.

Still a strawman as you are conflating a focused question with focused blame. Try again.
 

Curious George

Veteran Member
It is as you rejected your own caveat when I used it weeks ago only to use for your argument.
My own caveat? What caveat have I rejected?


It is a double-standard as you rejected opposing when I used the point weeks ago.
You are going to have to be more specific. I am starting to think there was a miscommunication.

Still a strawman as you are conflating a focused question with focused blame. Try again.
Not a strawman. It was focused blame in your question. Stop trying to squeak out of it.
 

Shad

Veteran Member
My own caveat? What caveat have I rejected?

You rejected opposing or opposition to when I used it weeks ago. Now you use as it benefits your argument.

You are going to have to be more specific. I am starting to think there was a miscommunication.

You were holding all voters responsible for current governments acts regardless if they voted for said government or not.


Not a strawman. It was focused blame in your question. Stop trying to squeak out of it.

Wrong. It was a focused question to press your principle to a point of absurdity thus expose it. I never said blacks were solely responsible. Try again.

I know why I asked the question. You do not. Try your mind reading with someone else.
 

Curious George

Veteran Member
You rejected opposing or opposition to when I used it weeks ago. Now you use as it benefits your argument.



You were holding all voters responsible for current governments acts regardless if they voted for said government or not.
I see. I hold people capable of voting responsible. Choosing to abstain from voting means you are still capable. Being disenfranchised is different. There is a distinction.

Wrong. It was a focused question to press your principle to a point of absurdity thus expose it. I never said blacks were solely responsible. Try again.
I did not say that you said that black citizens were solely responsible. I said that they received focused blame in your question. I am not suggesting you were blaming black citizens by asking the question, i am suggesting you were singling out black citizens in your question. Doing so, is bad form. It makes your question dishonest.
 

Shad

Veteran Member
I see. I hold people capable of voting responsible. Choosing to abstain from voting means you are still capable. Being disenfranchised is different. There is a distinction.

Blacks were not disenfranchised as a group. Next!


I did not say that you said that black citizens were solely responsible. I said that they received focused blame in your question.

Still wrong. You are conflating a focused question with focused blame thus missing the point. Try again.

I am not suggesting you were blaming black citizens by asking the question, i am suggesting you were singling out black citizens in your question.

Ergo a focused question

Doing so, is bad form. It makes your question dishonest.

Assertion.

My question worked as your double-standard was exposed. Try again.
 

Curious George

Veteran Member
Blacks were not disenfranchised as a group. Next!
Reread my reply. I did not say that black citizens as a group held no responsibility.


Still wrong. You are conflating a focused question with focused blame thus missing the point. Try again.
No, you are conflating focused blame in a question with focused blame in an assertion. I don't know how many times I can try again to explain this to you.

Ergo a focused question
Yes it was that...

Assertion.
Yes it was an assertion.
My question worked as your double-standard was exposed. Try again.
But no double standard was there. That you think one was, makes me think you might need to reread our exchange. And maybe, just maybe consider that I was not being hostile towards you while you read it.
 

Shad

Veteran Member
Reread my reply. I did not say that black citizens as a group held no responsibility.

You used disenfranchised in relation to voting. Black had voting rights in a number of locations.


No, you are conflating focused blame in a question with focused blame in an assertion. I don't know how many times I can try again to explain this to you.

You are still missing the point and complaining about a non-issue.


But no double standard was there. That you think one was, makes me think you might need to reread our exchange. And maybe, just maybe consider that I was not being hostile towards you while you read it.

Nope. You made an exception to your principle when the question was focused on a group no one in their right mind would hold responsible. I am only pointing out your exception was used by me weeks ago yet you rejected it. The caveat being opposition to X. Try again.

I am not reading hostility into nor from your posts.
 
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