Why did the world reject the Messiah when He Did come?

[IndigoChild5559]

You've bought into a lie. The Messiah is to be God and that link documented it. Jeremiah 23:5-6 speaks of the "Branch' (an idiom for the Messiah), and that he would be the Lord (God) our righteousness.

http://menorah.org/Messiah to be God-Divine.pdf

Look. J4J SAYS that it will make me a "completed Jew," that I will never be more Jewish than I will be after they do their thing. But their actual agenda is to assimilate me into the Christian churches (preferably Baptist) where I won't keep Shabbat, won't eat kosher, and won't observe the Jewish holy days. How is that Jewish???? It shows the lie of their claim.

So who is buying into a lie?

You need to actually quote from your website. It is not up to me to click on a link and try to figure out what there you are referring to. Links are designed to cite the source you are quoting so that a person can't simply fabricate a quote.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

So who is buying into a lie?

If it was that simple, there would never have been many who would have rejected God.

The thing is, the lie is our own perception of reality.

Regards Tony

 

[Antisthenes]

I see your opinion. Here is what God commands---This is my son the beloved in whom I am well pleased-LISTEN TO HIM. This is the only way to stay on the correct path. One can only get to the Father if they listen to the son. There is no other way in the bible. Pardon my error. It does mention blind guides. They don't listen to the son.
The teachings of Jesus back the JW teachers.

 

[Jedster]

Look. J4J SAYS that it will make me a "completed Jew," that I will never be more Jewish than I will be after they do their thing. But their actual agenda is to assimilate me into the Christian churches (preferably Baptist) where I won't keep Shabbat, won't eat kosher, and won't observe the Jewish holy days. How is that Jewish???? It shows the lie of their claim.

So who is buying into a lie?

You need to actually quote from your website. It is not up to me to click on a link and try to figure out what there you are referring to. Links are designed to cite the source you are quoting so that a person can't simply fabricate a quote.

I was introduced Richard Harvey ( a leader of the J4Js) in the 1980s. He refused to speak to me unless I said "Jesus is Lord".

 

[TransmutingSoul]

I was introduced Richard Harvey ( a leader of the J4Js) in the 1980s. He refused to speak to me unless I said "Jesus is Lord".

Most likely a conversation well worth avoiding.

Regards Tony

 

[JJ50]

I was introduced Richard Harvey ( a leader of the J4Js) in the 1980s. He refused to speak to me unless I said "Jesus is Lord".

How crazy is that?

 

[wizanda]

and that he would be the Lord (God) our righteousness.

Jeremiah 23:6 In his days Judah will be saved, and Israel will dwell safely. This is his name by which he will be called: Yahweh our righteousness.

It says he shall be named and called it; like Yehozadek means Lord's Righteousness...It doesn't mean Yehozadek was God.

As a Christian it helps to understand Exodus 23:20-23, that the Lord puts his title on Yehoshua (Lord Saves) on his messenger before his people, and that messenger has the power to forgive sin.

In my opinion.

 

[Spartan]

Jeremiah 23:6 In his days Judah will be saved, and Israel will dwell safely. This is his name by which he will be called: Yahweh our righteousness.

It says he shall be named and called it; like Yehozadek means Lord's Righteousness...It doesn't mean Yehozadek was God.

As a Christian it helps to understand Exodus 23:20-23, that the Lord puts his title on Yehoshua (Lord Saves) on his messenger before his people, and that messenger has the power to forgive sin.

In my opinion.

Here's more on that. http://menorah.org/Messiah to be God-Divine.pdf

 

[metis]

I see your opinion. Here is what God commands---This is my son the beloved in whom I am well pleased-LISTEN TO HIM. This is the only way to stay on the correct path. One can only get to the Father if they listen to the son. There is no other way in the bible. Pardon my error. It does mention blind guides.

This doesn't even remotely deal with what I wrote, so please next time try and stick to the subject of the post you're responding to.

The teachings of Jesus back the JW teachers.

I assume Jesus didn't lie, but the JW leaders certainly have repeatedly done as such. On top of that, they teach their followers to disobey Jesus' teaching to "judge ye not...".

Every time they predicted the end of times and it didn't happen, they formulated an excuse that they couldn't possibly know to supposedly be correct. And this is undoubtedly is why they don't want their followers to have a good education whereas they won't question them. This is why they don't want you to visit other churches or even read any of their materials.

My denomination doesn't do that, which is why there are so many Catholic universities and so many Catholic hospitals and so many Catholic charities to help Catholics and non-Catholics alike and to educate. We don't want our parishioners to be ignorant, but we certainly can't say the same about your JW leaders.

If you are not wiling to study from a variety of sources, you might as well but a ring through your nose so the JW leaders can lead their followers along and keeping their flock ignorant.

 

[metis]

I didn't judge.

You are lying as you repeatedly have done as such as well as some other JW's here. When you say an element cannot be saved, you are doing what is God's role, not yours nor mine. My church teaches that is unethical for us to judge others, as even Paul was unwilling to even judge himself.

The bible is clear on matters. It has judged.

The Bible does not judge anyone-- God does.

I just stated a fact--They do not use the NT. They do not listen to Jesus. Jesus is the only way to the true living God.

Now you are lying again as all Christian denominations use the full Bible that includes the Gospel of Jesus.

See how much your leaders have brainwashed you? In John 3[16] Jesus said that anyone who believes in Jesus will be saved, but your JW leaders basically are calling Jesus a liar. Why? To play the we/they game, whereas the "we" are supposedly the good guys with the white hats and the "they" are the bad guys with the black hats. By doing as such, which is totally dishonest btw, JW leaders try to gain and then hold their membership by teaching them this disingenuous and anti-Gospel dichotomy that's in defiance of John 3[16] and the Sermon On the Mount and the Parable of the Sheep & Goats.

Until you are willing to try and study these matters objectively through using multiple sources, you will forever be trapped. Breaking out of a cult is usually very difficult, and the JW's are no exception to this rule. I know as I've lived next to two sets of JW's for over 40 years now, read their materials many times, and discussed this with them on many occasions. Nice people but fortunately both left the JW's when they realized how they'd been taken in through their propaganda, with the one set of neighbors leaving earlier this year.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

If it was that simple, there would never have been many who would have rejected God.

The thing is, the lie is our own perception of reality.

Regards Tony

It IS simple Tony, and it really irritates me that you are equivocating morally.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

I was introduced Richard Harvey ( a leader of the J4Js) in the 1980s. He refused to speak to me unless I said "Jesus is Lord".

I have nothing to say about him then. All the things that come to mind would be censored.

 

[CG Didymus]

If it was that simple, there would never have been many who would have rejected God.

The thing is, the lie is our own perception of reality.

Regards Tony

To the Baha'is, who is lying more? The Jews who want to follow the laws they believe God gave them. Or, the Christians who are telling them that Satan is real, hell is real, Jesus is God, and that Jesus rose from the dead? How many of those things do Baha'is believe to be true?

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Here's more on that. http://menorah.org/Messiah to be God-Divine.pdf

Links are not a substitute for a real post.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

It IS simple Tony, and it really irritates me that you are equivocating morally.

I agree as I do see it as simple, thus as per the OP, why was the Messiah rejected?

Thus the quandary of your vision of simplicity.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

To the Baha'is, who is lying more? The Jews who want to follow the laws they believe God gave them. Or, the Christians who are telling them that Satan is real, hell is real, Jesus is God, and that Jesus rose from the dead? How many of those things do Baha'is believe to be true?

Who is offering it is a lie? It is all about people's perception of reality, which is thier frame of reference and thus not a lie but their perceived reality.

It is simple, Baha'u'llah is as claimed, or is not. A person can look and embrace that Frame of Reference, is all up to them.

Regards Tony

 

[CG Didymus]

So the correct starting point of the 2300 days is the decree in 457BC to restore and rebuild Jerusalem and not when the Temple was desecrated by Antiochus Epiphanes in 167BC? Hmmm?

Daniel 8:13Then I heard a holy one speaking, and another holy one said to him, “How long will it take for the vision to be fulfilled—the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, the rebellion that causes desolation, the surrender of the sanctuary and the trampling underfoot of the Lord’s people?”

14He said to me, “It will take 2,300 evenings and mornings; then the sanctuary will be reconsecrated.”
Says nothing about the rebuilding of Jerusalem being the start of the 2300 days.

I offer no more, it's time to let you wait for what you wait for CG.

No, don't wiggle out of it. The 2300 evenings and nights either starts with the surrender of the sanctuary and the other things, or it starts with the rebuilding of Jerusalem. The verses in Daniel say the one, and the Baha'is say the other. Why are the Baha'is correct?

To the Baha'is, who is lying more? The Jews who want to follow the laws they believe God gave them. Or, the Christians who are telling them that Satan is real, hell is real, Jesus is God, and that Jesus rose from the dead? How many of those things do Baha'is believe to be true?

Who is offering it is a lie? It is all about people's perception of reality, which is thier frame of reference and thus not a liebut their perceived reality.

It is simple, Baha'u'llah is as claimed, or is not. A person can look and embrace that Frame of Reference, is all up to them.

No, no, no, who, let us assume the Baha'is are right, is more correct the Jews holding onto the laws they believe God commanded them to obey, or the Christians that are telling the Jews to convert and believe that Jesus is their Messiah, which entails that they believe in Satan and hell and that Jesus is God and that he rose from the dead? As far as I know, Baha'is don't believe in any of those things about Christianity. So any Christian that believes those things, to a Baha'i, has the wrong doctrinal beliefs. So why should and why would a Jew leave their religion to become a Christian?

"Baha'u'llah is as claimed, or is not." Christians make the same claim, Jesus is either a liar, a lunatic... or Lord. But, by believing in the Christian Jesus you are saying that he is God. So is the Christian claim true or is it false?

 

[Spartan]

I agree as I do see it as simple, thus as per the OP, why was the Messiah rejected?

Thus the quandary of your vision of simplicity.

Regards Tony

Well, there's restrictions on how much can be posted. Be brave and read the article.

Messiah To Be God: http://menorah.org/Messiah to be God-Divine.pdf

 

[TransmutingSoul]

No, don't wiggle out of it. The 2300 evenings and nights either starts with the surrender of the sanctuary and the other things, or it starts with the rebuilding of Jerusalem. The verses in Daniel say the one, and the Baha'is say the other. Why are the Baha'is correct?

I say again, William Miller used this calculation and that starting point. Great Disappointment - Wikipedia

Further study from external sources - Prophecy of Seventy Weeks - Wikipedia

The Baha'i use it because it was correct.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Well, there's restrictions on how much can be posted. Be brave and read the article.

Messiah To Be God: http://menorah.org/Messiah to be God-Divine.pdf

Thank you and I read and it and I see it has confirmed what Baha'u'llah has offered. When we consider the twofold station of the Messenger, first we see a man like us and in the station of the Manifestation they are the self of God amongst us.

You may not have read what Baha'u'llah said, so it would be difficult to see in those passages what I now see.

I see Christ being the first to teach us the Truth as quoted from your article below;

I like this part;

The First Book of Enoch reiterates that the Messiah (there called the "Son of Man") was hidden in God from the beginning, before the creation, and even that the kings and rulers of the earth worship the Son of Man, setting their hopes in him and petitioning for mercy at his hands, some-thing directed appropriately only to God. Perhaps most explicitly of all is the statement found in R. Simeon b. Yochai's comments on the Zohar,"There is a perfect Man, who is an Angel. This Angel is Metatron, the Keeper of Israel; He is a man in the image of the Holy One, blessed be He, who is an Emanation from Him; yea,He is Jehovah; of Him cannot be said, He is created, formed or made; but He is the Emanation from God. This agrees exactly with what is written, Jeremiah 23:5-6, Of, David's Branch, that though He shall be a perfect man, yet He is ‘The Lord our Righteousness.’"

That is 100% what was offered by Baha'u'llah., the Messiah. I have to tell you strait, it would not be fair to beat around the bush.

Regards Tony