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Featured Why did the world reject the Messiah when He Did come?

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by Tony Bristow-Stagg, Aug 30, 2019.

  1. Tony Bristow-Stagg

    Tony Bristow-Stagg Ocean Immersion
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    Note, it is your choice to read on.

    That is what the thread is about, so since you have asked 'what Messiah'; To me, this world is all that is the Messiah, it comes into being as a result of the Messiah, without the Messiah this illusion does not exist, this world is the illusion, the Messiah is life.

    This advice is from the Messiah;

    "The world is but a show, vain and empty, a mere nothing, bearing the semblance of reality. Set not your affections upon it. Break not the bond that uniteth you with your Creator, and be not of those that have erred and strayed from His ways. Verily I say, the world is like the vapor in a desert, which the thirsty dreameth to be water and striveth after it with all his might, until when he cometh unto it, he findeth it to be mere illusion." Baha'u'llah

    Regards Tony
     
  2. loverofhumanity

    loverofhumanity Well-Known Member
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    There are many reasons why a messiah is rejected. Among them is tradition and custom. Once people are accustomed to a certain way then change for them is difficult and add to that religious leaders indoctrinating their followers to believe they are the only truth, shuts the door of their mnds and hearts to be receptive to new messiahs sent by God.

    But if a person is sincere and pure hearted they will accept a new messiah however and wherever He May appear. Moses was guilty of murder, Jesus the son of a carpenter, and Baha’u’llah did not come down from the sky with angels so people’s faith is tested when outwardly the messiah does not appear according to their expectations.

    That is why it is said ‘he that has eyes let him see and he that has ears let him hear’ meaning that one can only truly come to know a messiah through spiritual sight and hearing. If we haven’t developed these spiritual faculties then we will not be able to see Him when He appears.

    How to develop these abilities? Prayer, meditation, good deeds, sincerity and open mindedness and an earnest longing.
     
    #62 loverofhumanity, Aug 31, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2019
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  3. Shad

    Shad Veteran Member

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    A lot of the world knows nothing about your religion or even heard of it. You overestimate the reach of your religion thus how widespread rejection is instead of just ignorant of your religion in general thus can not reject something they never heard of.
     
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  4. Tony Bristow-Stagg

    Tony Bristow-Stagg Ocean Immersion
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    It could be it is underestimated. I see the Messiah is at the core of our very being, even if we choose not to see life that way.

    Every inspirational and progressive thought is from that source. All negative thoughts and decay comes from our own material human self.

    Thus it could be to reject all that is good, is rejection of the Messiah, knowingly or unknowingly.

    Regarding Tony
     
  5. Shad

    Shad Veteran Member

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    I am talking about other people not you. You are assuming knowledge and rejection without evidence. Hence why I pointed out you overestimate your religion's reach. I never heard of your religion until I was in my 20s and it wasn't due to an education institution just the internet.. Think about that. If the internet didn't exist I would never heard of your religion until my 30s due to a neighbor. I was taught about religions that have been dead, more or less, for millennia but not your religion. Again think about that.
     
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  6. Shaul

    Shaul Well-Known Member

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    According to scripture when the moshiach comes he will do certain things. To wit, usher in universal peace, restore Temple sacrifices, gather the people of Israel back to eretz Yisrael, and cause all people to acknowledge G-d. Jesus of Nazareth did none of these things. Ergo, he is not the moshiach. Saying he will do these things in a “second coming” is 1) an admission he has not done them and 2) not an option supported by the Jewish scriptures. Jesus of Nazareth is not the moshiach.
     
  7. loverofhumanity

    loverofhumanity Well-Known Member
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    Yes some I agree on some points. But I think that most people expect it to happen instantly rather than being an unfolding process.

    Think about the prophecy of the wolf and the lamb lying together I.e. once hostile and antagonistic religions races and nations finding peace.

    If we maintain that this must happen instantaneously overnight upon the appearance of the Messiah then to one and all He has not come because we are not yet at peace.

    But if it is an unfolding process not an overnight event then there are many signs the messiah has indeed appeared as the process of reconciliation between races, religions and nations has definitely begun.

    The UN, the early glimmerings of the unity of nations can be seen universally, interfaith - the different religions coming together in a spirit of oneness and worldwide movements towards racial harmony and essential equality between men and women.

    These are processes happening all over the world indicating to me a Messiah has indeed appeared thus setting the world on a path of peace and reconciliation despite objections by some.

    It does not mean that because these things have not come to pass overnight that the Messiah has not come yet.

    It took Moses and His followers much time and suffering before they reached the Promised Land. It didn’t happen overnight.

    It’s the same with Christians. They expect an instant overnight waving of a magic wand and everyone will attain salvation when it is us who have to work and toil for everything we earn.
     
  8. stvdv

    stvdv Well-Known Member

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    That is even an understatement:)
     
  9. stvdv

    stvdv Well-Known Member

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    True.

    Sai Baba is said to be a Poorna Avatar. Many accept Him and many reject Him; even without studying His Teaching.

    Do you accept Him or reject Him?

    The same goes for other Messengers. Some lack the vision to recognise them. Others are satisfied with what they have or they found truth in themselves (but those would not reject a new Messenger).

    Rejecting the Messiah means rejecting Love IMO.
     
  10. Tony Bristow-Stagg

    Tony Bristow-Stagg Ocean Immersion
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    I offer this to think about in return. If you have not heard, were you listening?

    People have known about this day for centuries, it was just not the time to see it.

    Daniel 12:4 "But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased."

    The Bab and Baha'u'llah knew that they were the bringers of that knowledge, this quote is clear and it is a quote from older tradition;

    “Knowledge is twenty and seven letters. All that the Prophets have revealed are two letters thereof. No man thus far hath known more than these two letters. 25 But when the Qá’im shall arise, He will cause the remaining twenty and five letters to be made manifest.” Baha'u'llah

    Shoghi Effendi also knew and foretold about what is still unfolding;

    "A mechanism of world inter-communication will be devised, embracing the whole planet, freed from national hindrances and restrictions, and functioning with marvellous swiftness and perfect regularity..." (1936)

    Regards Tony
     
    #70 Tony Bristow-Stagg, Sep 1, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2019
  11. Tony Bristow-Stagg

    Tony Bristow-Stagg Ocean Immersion
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    I have no firm stance as to an opinion on the life of Sai Baba.

    It was an amazing time he lived in. In the end a person is known by their fruits and good fruits are from God.

    Regards Tony
     
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  12. Tony Bristow-Stagg

    Tony Bristow-Stagg Ocean Immersion
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    Who is playing Chess? There is no game being played.

    As such, there is no aim to win anything.

    Regards Tony
     
  13. Desert Snake

    Desert Snake ️️️️️️️️️️

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    Jesus died for my sins, [the real Jesus.

    Spiritual sacrifice.
     
    #73 Desert Snake, Sep 1, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2019
  14. stvdv

    stvdv Well-Known Member

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    IMHO, that seems like an easy way out ... Christians can sin whatever they like, if they just believe "Jesus died for my sins'

    In itself that's not a bad view, at least they don't feel guilty while alive. But it is not a fact, it's still your belief. The fact is that "Jesus died 'because of' our sin (killing Him)", nice twist though, to change "because of" into "for".

    The bad part (witout IMHO), though, lies in the fact that they impose guilt feeling on others in the process, by declaring "Jesus is the only way for all" which many Christians claim.

    Another bad part is that, because of this Christian belief they don't feel guilty giving others a misplaced guiltfeeling telling them "your sins are not forgiven, unless you convert" or even worse "and you go to Hell if you don't convert" (because again "Jesus also died for 'that sin'.").

    I do not believe in this "sin and Hell concept of God". So in a way "Jesus died for our sins" is not such a strange concept. And more healthy then believing you are a sinner.

    Bhagavad Gita teaches similar "offer all your thoughts, words and deeds to me. Then they will be karma free".

    Sin might be another word for karma.
     
  15. Tony Bristow-Stagg

    Tony Bristow-Stagg Ocean Immersion
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    The Bab also did. But it has great implications, the Bab was the Gate to the end of age Messiah. Baha'u'llah submitted to a life in prison so we could be released from our bondage to self.

    Regards Tony
     
  16. Desert Snake

    Desert Snake ️️️️️️️️️️

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    That's just random stuff, you aren't refuting anything.
     
    #76 Desert Snake, Sep 1, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2019
  17. stvdv

    stvdv Well-Known Member

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    Bhagavad Gita is not exclusive. All have the opportunity.

    No need to be Christian or Hindu or... . A Christian uses the name Jesus and a Krishnian uses the name Krishna. Others might just use God. No "Real and Unreal Jesus". All Religions are accepted by God.
     
  18. Desert Snake

    Desert Snake ️️️️️️️️️️

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    You're just randomly saying things. And a christian may or may may not 'use the name jesus', or use that with other names, so forth.

    'G-d'. Is a name, used without specification, not a general word or description, anyway.
     
    #78 Desert Snake, Sep 1, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2019
  19. Vinayaka

    Vinayaka devotee
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    There are thousands of messiah claimants on this planet. Most are institutionalised under medical supervision and the diagnosis of grandiose delusions. Grandiose delusions are a side effect of such things as schizophrenia and bi-polar disorder. Are you saying we should accept them all, or we all lack the vision to recognise them?

    I think in many cases what some folks haven't seen are the grandiose delusions.
     
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  20. Vinayaka

    Vinayaka devotee
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    And many other messiah claimants have 'submitted' to a life in prison. Apparently Iranian authorities have about 3000 in custody as we write. That's Iran alone, let alone the world. Heck, on this forum of about 200 people, there are a couple of messiah claimants.
     
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