Why did the Jews reject their Messiah when he DID come?

[wizanda]

. . . and as far as most Jews would be concerned it would be your opinion.

Thankfully since my opinion is an archangel in Judaism (Sandalphon), sent from Heaven with the new name of Christ (Sananda) before Judgement Day; then it was already prophesied they'd stand against the things of God, and soon start WW3.

In my opinion.

 

[Bob Jones]

This Jesus myth has caused more than 2000 years of confusion. There were many other Messiah´s all of them a myth.The Greeks had there Hercules born from a virgin,Zesus a god father, died and ascended to Mt Orca. Mirtha of Persia dies and rises from the dead in the full glory and for the salvation of man. To save time I will not mention the other 16 gods who have the almost exact story as the Jesus myth.

 

[Tumah]

Thankfully since my opinion is an archangel in Judaism (Sandalphon), sent from Heaven

You also need to figure out how to get your name to be Elijah, since in Judaism, he is that angel as well.

 

[PruePhillip]

This has pretty clearly not happened.

This entire chapter is describing a war on the inhabitants of Jerusalem by the nations of the world. The events described here haven't happened yet.
Your interpretation/translation of the enbolded words are also jarringly absurd in their switch from first-person to third-person.


We've clearly seen now that Zechariah shows no such thing.

One sentence:
I will pour out on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the Spirit of grace and of
supplication, so that they will look on Me whom they have pierced; and they will mourn for Him,
as one mourns for an only son...

One person:
See, your King comes to you, righteous and victorious, gentle and riding on a donkey, on a colt,
the foal of a donkey. And I will cut off the chariot from Ephraim and the horse from Jerusalem,
and the bow of war will be broken. Then He will proclaim peace to the nations...

This lowly Messiah, the suffering one of David's Psalms and Isiah's poetry confuses many Jews.
How can their nation end with the Messiah as Jacob said, if He is to be their king?
Pay no attention to any Jewish Messianic ideas - Jesus said the Jews will go in exile because
they did not know the time of their visitation.

Luke 19:14
"They will dash you to the ground, you and the children within your walls. They will not leave one
stone on another, because you did not recognize the time of God's coming to you."

This incidentally is a Messiah even the "Christians" are not comfortable with. Jesus as one who
would slay the infants.

 

[PruePhillip]

This Jesus myth has caused more than 2000 years of confusion. There were many other Messiah´s all of them a myth.The Greeks had there Hercules born from a virgin,Zesus a god father, died and ascended to Mt Orca. Mirtha of Persia dies and rises from the dead in the full glory and for the salvation of man. To save time I will not mention the other 16 gods who have the almost exact story as the Jesus myth.

The fallacy here is to say "some are wrong, therefor they are all wrong."
Certainly the Messiah of the Old Testament doesn't appear as myth. In
fact Jacob in Egypt spoke of the Jews one day having their own nation
and kingdom, but it would end with the Messiah - and in Him shall the
Gentiles trust.
Israel ended with Jesus. The Gentiles believed upon Him.
But Jesus said the Jews would come again to take back their nation,
when the Gentiles no longer believe. That's happening now.

 

[Bob Jones]

The OT is nothing more that Kindergarten cosmology totally misunderstood by Western man. The bible both OT and NT are nothing more than a poorly written creation myth borrowed from older civilisations.

 

[Tumah]

One sentence:
I will pour out on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the Spirit of grace and of
supplication, so that they will look on Me whom they have pierced; and they will mourn for Him,
as one mourns for an only son...

One person:
See, your King comes to you, righteous and victorious, gentle and riding on a donkey, on a colt,
the foal of a donkey. And I will cut off the chariot from Ephraim and the horse from Jerusalem,
and the bow of war will be broken. Then He will proclaim peace to the nations...

This lowly Messiah, the suffering one of David's Psalms and Isiah's poetry confuses many Jews.
How can their nation end with the Messiah as Jacob said, if He is to be their king?
Pay no attention to any Jewish Messianic ideas - Jesus said the Jews will go in exile because
they did not know the time of their visitation.

Luke 19:14
"They will dash you to the ground, you and the children within your walls. They will not leave one
stone on another, because you did not recognize the time of God's coming to you."

This incidentally is a Messiah even the "Christians" are not comfortable with. Jesus as one who
would slay the infants.

You quoted me, but didn't respond to the content of my post...

 

[wizanda]

I won't tell Tubal Cain, Bath Sheba and Ish Bosheth if you don't!

Your lots reading comprehension skills are awful...

Tubal means 'to bring forth', and Cain is the name; it is like saying Bob the Blacksmith.

Bath Sheba

Daughter of seven or daughter of an oath... Might not even be a name, yet an advanced metaphor.

Ish Bosheth

A person of shame.

If you clearly just wait to accuse any fault, why not be so quick to accuse your own misunderstandings, when the whole of humanities fate rests in your hands or don't you care, because somewhere you think you're automatically saved?

In my opinion.

 

[Tumah]

Your lots reading comprehension skills are awful...

Tubal means 'to bring forth', and Cain is the name; it is like saying Bob the Blacksmith.

Daughter of seven or daughter of an oath... Might not even be a name, yet an advanced metaphor.

A person of shame.

If you clearly just wait to accuse any fault, why not be so quick to accuse your own misunderstandings, when the whole of humanities fate rests in your hands or don't you care, because somewhere you think you're automatically saved?

In my opinion.

Yeah, it's my mistake for assuming you wouldn't reinterpret their names to something that isn't a name in order to protect your rule rather call your rule into question. I hold myself responsible.

 

[PruePhillip]

The OT is nothing more that Kindergarten cosmology totally misunderstood by Western man. The bible both OT and NT are nothing more than a poorly written creation myth borrowed from older civilisations.

1 - God created the heavens
2 - and the earth
3 - and the earth was dark and oceanic cloud planet (like Titan - NASA's "earth analogue")
4 - and the skies cleared
5 - and the continents rose
6 - and life was created by the earth (fresh water, volcanic rock, whatever...)
7 - and the sea brought forth life (including birds)
8 - and man was the last creation.

Sounds okay to me. Certainly its written in theological terms, but the sequence is correct.

 

[wizanda]

You also need to figure out how to get your name to be Elijah, since in Judaism, he is that angel as well.

Like you think we need to fit with your religion to be sent from Heaven before Armageddon.

There isn't a reason to be Elijah, as the prophecy at the end of Malachi happened two thousand years ago with John the Baptist being Elijah, and Yeshua the Lord, before the Curse of Moses was placed on our people.

I was told by God as a 4-5 year old my name is in the religions, which we can all objectively show.

In my opinion.

 

[Tumah]

Like you think we need to fit with your religion to be sent from Heaven before Armageddon.

There isn't a reason to be Elijah, as the prophecy at the end of Malachi happened two thousand years ago with John the Baptist being Elijah, and Yeshua the Lord, before the Curse of Moses was placed on our people.

I was told by God as a 4-5 year old my name is in the religions, which we can all objectively show.

In my opinion.

Yes, yes. You've mentioned it before.

 

[SA Huguenot]

You are by far over stating the number of Jews that became Christians in the early history. Within a generation or two Paul was was widely teaching throughout Rome and the majority of Christians were not of Jewish background. By about 200 to 400 AD when the New testament evolved toward its present form the remaining Jews were a very small minority, and the Church Fathers were almost entirely Roman and Greek.

I dont think a generation or 2 concerning Paul.
He died in 65 AD.
Nero killed thousands of Christians in his blame for setting fire to rome.
Josephus, Pliny the younger, Tacitus (Nero historian who investigated the Roman fire), Polycarp, Ignatius, all describe the Tribe of Christians.
if you were to claim that the Christians was some small sect in a corner of the world to ignore, you are wrong. There were studies made on graves with Christian references, and by the end of the First century the Christian religion was flaring out all over the known world.
Think about this.
When Jesus walked in palestine, whole villages and towns came to listen him.
about 10 000 to 15 000 were present at his teachings, not only once, but numerous times.
he was a huge problem to the sanhederen and he hurt their moneymaking scams terribly.

He actually almost destroyed their religious money making practices, and they had to take him out.
Little did they know they were actually assisting in spreading the religion we today know as Christian.
Please take note, Paul and the Apostles went all over Greece and Rome, preaching in Synagogues.
The Jews became Christians first, then the religion was spread to those who were not Jewish.
The Jews actually shaped the Christian religion by their scriptural knowledge they had, and spoke by authority from the Bible to the newly converts.
There are numerous evidence to attest that there were a big number of Christians before the first century passed off.
The oldest Christian church?
Already at jamnia the Jews decided the Christians are not Jews. 85 AD.
Nerva also declared that the Christians were not jews and did not have to pay Jewish taxes.
I do not see how anyone can think that the Christians were a very small number of people in the days from jesus to 100 AD.
No one would have bothered if they were even 10 000 in 65 AD.
The Emperors and Jews would certainly have noticed 50 000 and more as a threat to Rome and Jerusalem.

 

[PruePhillip]

You quoted me, but didn't respond to the content of my post...

What content? That Zechariah is speaking of a war which hasn't happened?
The bible is often not written in linear style. These verses clearly speak of the
Messiah.
An interesting war which hasn't happened yet is the one mentioned in Ezekiel
38 or 39. This battle is in the future, and reads like a nuclear one. All the parties
are mentioned with the exception of one - the ally of Israel. This ally wasn't like
Ethiopia or Libya etc.. It just refers to it as the nation of the "islands" or the
"coast lands" Sounds like America to me - particularly in "sending fire" upon
"Magog" from the north, yet describing Magog was being to the "uttermost
north." That could be across the north pole - something absurd to readers of
Old Testament times.

 

[PruePhillip]

I dont think a generation or 2 concerning Paul.
He died in 65 AD....
.

Interesting. Thanks for that. Many believe the New Testament was written centuries later. Yet Paul and
Luke, who both died in Rome ca 65, wrote Luke, Acts and the various Epistles about Jesus.

 

[Samantha Rinne]

I'm thinking of starting a thread called "Why did Christians accept a false messiah when he showed up?"

Then I'll lay out why Christianity is wrong and Christians don't understand the bible because I know better than them. How does that sound? Because that's what this thread is.

There are plenty of resources available online that explain why the notion of Jesus as told in the gospels fails when measured against what Jews and Judaism understand about the concept of messiah. It isn't rocket science and it isn't a secret. He simply wasn't what Judaism requires. He still isn't, and he never will be.

Maybe it would make more sense to go to the Judaism DIR and ask a respectful question about what the Jewish expectations and qualifications are for any messiah, past present or future. Or better yet, spend 3 minutes online and read from an actual Jewish website (or another thread on a forum).

The post before you basically answered your question. The word "false" is wrong. A better one is "not their Messiah." It's like this. Jesus came to save the Jews, but the Jews largely decided they didn't need to be saved. So Jesus became Messiah, but for Gentiles. Messiah will come again, this time for the Jews.

Update: I read your post again, this time more carefully. Yeah, it kinda is.

 

[Rival]

It always amuses me how many people will bend over backwards to fit Jesus into their theology somehow, even if they accept that he didn't do this or that; rather than just letting him go they shoehorn him into any crevice possible. It's a bit weird.

 

[rosends]

The post before you basically answered your question. The word "false" is wrong. A better one is "not their Messiah." It's like this. Jesus came to save the Jews, but the Jews largely decided they didn't need to be saved. So Jesus became Messiah, but for Gentiles. Messiah will come again, this time for the Jews.

Update: I read your post again, this time more carefully. Yeah, it kinda is.

This is all still mired in the same erroneous thinking. You say "Jesus came to save the Jews." Assuming the gospels have any measure of accuracy, this would be meaningless in any Jewish sense. Then "Jews largely decided they didn't need saving" is likewise alien to Jewish thought. The whole "messiah will come again" has no place in Judaism. So what is the point of restating things that have no bearing on or relevance to Judaism as if they speak for anything native to Jewish theology?

 

[Spartan]

Jesus wasn't recognised as a messiah by most of the Jews because he was a mere human like everyone else with many faults and failings.

Mere humans don't heal the sick and raise the dead and resurrect themselves from the dead.

 

[wizanda]

where's the verb?

I really shouldn't try using grammatical terms...

What type of grammatical word describes salvation, and not a noun, as for me as an archangel we offer people salvation, so it is a doing word for us, which is then a verb, what is it for you?

The way to say "G-d saves" would be "E-l + Moshia". Yesha is a noun meaning "salvation".

Thank you, will take a look into it.

In my opinion.