Why did the Jews reject their Messiah when he DID come?

[Desert Snake]

Mark 11:11

 

[JChnsc19]

Jesus said He was the Messiah to the woman and what more is there to believe?
I can't believe Jesus would lie.

I believe Matthew 18:22 is a lie

 

[Spartan]

If you followed these ideas, then I suppose the part of israel that was conquered under auspices of 'idolatry', should be relinquished? What does that type of theology say about that?

The Book of Judges provides numerous examples for the cycle of sin, judgment, repentance followed by cries to the Lord and deliverance by the Lord.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Been having this conversation with people on this forum.
Genesis 1 gives a correct statement about the sequence of creation events.
Certainly the six days are theological. I can't be sure about Adam and Eve
because Genesis states there were also other people there as well.
But yes, from the creation of the heavens to the creation of man - more or
less same sequence as science accepts.
heavens
earth (dark, oceanic)
opening of the skies
emergence of land
life appears on land (more likely, fresh water, clay)
life emerges from the sea
mankind.

The first creation story in Genesis 1 does not get all the events in correct sequence. For example, there is light before there are stars. And birds are created before animals are.
The second creation story, in Genesis 2, is far worse -- mankind is created first, before even plants are created.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

I guess what you fail to understand is that Jesus' sacrifice and the New Covenant (foretold in Jeremiah chapter 31) is the legitimate fulfillment and new standard of the sacrificial system of Judaism.

It also confirms how righteousness is achieved in Judaism and Christianity (a Jewish-based movement). That righteousness CONTINUES to be by grace through faith in God (Genesis 15:6; Ephesians 2:8-9). Only now, with Christ, God is known. Because Jesus is Jehovah. NUMEROUS scriptural evidences for that in the link below.

Jesus Must be Jehovah

Judaism didn't and doesn't need a "fulfillment." It was, and is, just fine. It was just fine the way it was the moment before Jesus died, and it was still just fine the moment after Jesus died.

BTW, I don't allow people to use links in place of making their arguments in a post. Not trying to be difficult. But if I want to browse the web, I can do that on my own. I come in here because I want to talk to people like you and gets what's in your own brains.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

How is it anti-Semitism? The Jews are prone to mistakes as are others. The Jews did commit a mistake in not accepting Issa/Jesus, so no harm if they admit it and make amend for it. Right, please?

Regards

Basically, you don't punish people for innocent mistakes. Got it???

1. We have made no mistake about Jesus. He was a nice observant Jewish man. He wanted to be the messiah and failed. Nice try. That's it. Fin.

2. Even if we had made a mistake about Jesus, no "fault" can be assigned, as it is not something that is chosen. People are either convinced or they are not convinced. They don't choose to be convinced nor do they choose not to be convinced. So there is no moral responsibility in it.

3. Assigning moral responsibility where there is none is abusive.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

If you followed these ideas, then I suppose the part of israel that was conquered under auspices of 'idolatry', should be relinquished? What does that type of theology say about that?

If you examine the Torah, you will see that there is a wrinkle in the covenant. The right to live in the Promised Land is dependent upon keeping the Law. However, the right to the Land (even if it means not living on it) is unconditional. So the Land belongs to the Jews, even during those years where we are not living on it.

 

[PruePhillip]

The first creation story in Genesis 1 does not get all the events in correct sequence. For example, there is light before there are stars. And birds are created before animals are.
The second creation story, in Genesis 2, is far worse -- mankind is created first, before even plants are created.

Depends how to you read it, first account -
God creates the heaven
and (then) the earth
Okay, the earth is here and if you were an observer ...
the earth is all ocean and it's dark and sterile
that is how earth was at one of its stages - a cloud planet like Venus but with a global ocean
then the skies clear
and the continents rise
and life emerges from the land (fresh water or clay maybe - doesn't say)
and then seas bring forth life.

It says life from the land, and then gives a list of land critters
and then life from the sea (including birds) and a list of critters
the critter list (!) can be read either way, ie what happened in sequence or what eventually happened

Lastly, man.

 

[PruePhillip]

Judaism didn't and doesn't need a "fulfillment." It was, and is, just fine. It was just fine the way it was the moment before Jesus died, and it was still just fine the moment after Jesus died.

BTW, I don't allow people to use links in place of making their arguments in a post. Not trying to be difficult. But if I want to browse the web, I can do that on my own. I come in here because I want to talk to people like you and gets what's in your own brains.

So do you have your local Levite kill some animals for you?

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Depends how to you read it, first account -
God creates the heaven
and (then) the earth
Okay, the earth is here and if you were an observer ...
the earth is all ocean and it's dark and sterile
that is how earth was at one of its stages - a cloud planet like Venus but with a global ocean
then the skies clear
and the continents rise
and life emerges from the land (fresh water or clay maybe - doesn't say)
and then seas bring forth life.

It says life from the land, and then gives a list of land critters
and then life from the sea (including birds) and a list of critters
the critter list (!) can be read either way, ie what happened in sequence or what eventually happened

Lastly, man.

In Genesis 1:2-3 it says that darkness was upon the face of the deep, and God creates liight. Yet light came from stars. It says in no uncertain terms that God did not create the sun, moon, and other stars until the fourth day. Come on, you can't have it both ways. You can't have light on day one, without the stars. If it is, as you are implying, that the stars just weren't SEEN from earth until day four, then the passage is a lie, because then God wasn't actually creating them on day four.

And you still have the problem with the birds being created before animals.

AND you still have the problem with Genesis 2 contradicting Genesis 1, and having mankind created before either plants or animals.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

So do you have your local Levite kill some animals for you?

Why would I do that? It would break the law. I am a law abiding Jew.

FYI its the Kohanim that sacrifice, not the Levites.

 

[PruePhillip]

Why would I do that? It would break the law. I am a law abiding Jew.
FYI its the Kohanim that sacrifice, not the Levites.

Okay, but Kohanim are Levites, no?
And the law stipulates that you must offer to God the animal sacrifice?
So, can Kohanims offer this sacrifice on your behalf?
Do you eat shell fish and pork? Do you stone adulterers?

 

[PruePhillip]

In Genesis 1:2-3 it says that darkness was upon the face of the deep, and God creates liight. Yet light came from stars. It says in no uncertain terms that God did not create the sun, moon, and other stars until the fourth day. Come on, you can't have it both ways. You can't have light on day one, without the stars. If it is, as you are implying, that the stars just weren't SEEN from earth until day four, then the passage is a lie, because then God wasn't actually creating them on day four.

And you still have the problem with the birds being created before animals.

AND you still have the problem with Genesis 2 contradicting Genesis 1, and having mankind created before either plants or animals.

Yes, Genesis 1 says God created the "heavens"
it repeats things
but verse 2 has the heavens and the earth as a given,
and now you are transported to the earth.
NASA calls Saturn's moon Titan a "precursor earth"
because it resembles the early earth - dark and wet.

 

[Spartan]

Judaism didn't and doesn't need a "fulfillment." It was, and is, just fine. It was just fine the way it was the moment before Jesus died, and it was still just fine the moment after Jesus died.

BTW, I don't allow people to use links in place of making their arguments in a post. Not trying to be difficult. But if I want to browse the web, I can do that on my own. I come in here because I want to talk to people like you and gets what's in your own brains.

You're welcome to your views, but the antecedents for Christ and Christianity are clearly seen in the Tanakh / Old Testament, and Christianity in its inception is totally Jewish.

 

[Spartan]

The first creation story in Genesis 1 does not get all the events in correct sequence. For example, there is light before there are stars. And birds are created before animals are.
The second creation story, in Genesis 2, is far worse -- mankind is created first, before even plants are created.

Genesis 2 is a non-sequential recap of Genesis 1. And the light of Genesis 1 could well be other stars and not our sun. It could also be the light of God.

From Revelation 21:23 - "The city does not need the sun or the moon to shine on it, for the glory of God gives it light, and the Lamb is its lamp."

 

[1213]

Did they not recognize Him as earlier prophesied in the OT?

Christians consider Him as Lord, Jesus Christ.

Maybe the Jews will finally get it on His second coming?

Sad thing is that it is probably that many “Christians” don’t accept Jesus, when he comes, because they are worshiping Trinity.

 

[Desert Snake]

The Book of Judges provides numerous examples for the cycle of sin, judgment, repentance followed by cries to the Lord and deliverance by the Lord.

Didn't answer that question.

Mark 11:11

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Sad thing is that it is probably that many “Christians” don’t accept Jesus, when he comes, because they are worshiping Trinity.

I see that Christians are not the only ones that have rejected the Messiah.

Regards Tony

 

[Spartan]

Didn't answer that question.

Mark 11:11

Didn't answer that question.

Mark 11:11

Be more specific about the question.

 

[PruePhillip]

I see that Christians are not the only ones that have rejected the Messiah.

Regards Tony

In Exodus we read of the male lamb, taken into the household for three
days. After this bonding the lamb is killed and eaten - whole. Not just
the choice parts, but the entirety of the animal.
And Jesus, the lamb slain from the foundation of the world, is loved for
various reasons. He is not loved for everything he did or said. He is not
obeyed completely, just loved for certain aspects. He is not consumed
whole.