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Why did the Arabs reject the 1937 Peel Plan?

Discussion in 'Middle Eastern Politics' started by ronki23, Mar 16, 2019.

  1. ronki23

    ronki23 Well-Known Member

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  2. dfnj

    dfnj Well-Known Member

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    I don't know about that but this reporters story I find very disturbing if it is true:



    From what the reporter is saying Israel is the new South Africa. The US drops 25,000 bombs per year on Muslim countries in the middle east. I think it's time we stop slaughtering Arabs for a change. Here's a guy who's pregnant wife was killed by US bombing. This guy is the next major terrorist:

    [​IMG]

    More than 200 civilians killed in suspected U.S. airstrike in Iraq

    More than 200 civilians killed in suspected U.S. airstrike in Iraq

    I read since 9/11 over 2,000,000 million Muslims have died. How many Muslims have to die before the people deciding on doing the bombings are satisfied? Will the complete genocide of all Arabs be enough? Probably not.

    For what the US spends on the military, it would be a better solution and cheaper in the long run to air-lift every building, house, religious site, cobblestone, and person in Israel and fly them to some plot of land in Arizona or New Mexico.
     
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  3. sooda

    sooda Well-Known Member

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    Because they were only to be given half of what had been all theirs.
     
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  4. sooda

    sooda Well-Known Member

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    The Political Situation in *
    1. The Peel Commission declared in one of the final chapters of its Report: "Neither Arab nor Jew has any sense of service to a single State . . . The conflict is primarily political, though the fear of economic subjection to the Jews is also in Arab minds . . . The conflict, indeed, is as much about the future as about the present. Every intelligent Arab and Jew is forced to ask the question, 'Who in the end will govern Palestine ?' . . . for internal and external reasons it seems probable that the situation, bad as it now is, will grow worse. The conflict will go on, the gulf between Arabs and Jews will widen." The Report concluded with a reference to "strife and bloodshed in a thrice hallowed land."

    2. It is nine years since the Peel Commission made its report. The recommendations were unfulfilled, but the analysis of political conditions remains valid and impressive. The gulf between the Arabs of Palestine and the Arab world on the one side, and the Jews of Palestine and elsewhere on the other has widened still further. Neither side seems at all disposed at the present to make any sincere effort to reconcile either their superficial or their fundamental differences. The Arabs view the Mandatory Government with misgivings and anger. It is not only condemned verbally, but attacked with bombs and firearms by organized bands of Jewish terrorists. The Palestine Administration appears to be powerless to keep the situation under control except by the display use of very large forces. Even if-the total manpower in police and defense services were only half what it is reputed to be, the political implications would still be deeply disturbing. It reflects the honest fear of experienced officials that tomorrow may produce circumstances in which military operations will be necessary.

    3. Official data imply the gravity of the menacing problem. They show that, apart from those convicted of terrorist activity, the number of Jews held on suspicion averaged 450 during most of the year 1945 and was 554 at the end of the year. The aggregate of persons in the whole-time police and prisons service of Palestine in 1945 was about 15,000.

    4. The financial tables provide additional evidence of the extent to which the energies and money of the Government are devoted to the protection of life and property. * ($18,400,000) was spent on "law and order" during the financial year 1944-45 as against L.P. 550,000 ($2,200,000) in health and L.P. 700,000 ($2,800,000) on education. Thus even from a budgetary point of view Palestine has developed into a semi-military or police state. But, pending a substantial change in the relations between the Government and the Jews and the Arabs, the prospect of the kind of budget which characterizes a settled, civilized, nongarrisoned and prosperous community is dark.

    5. Arab political leadership is still in the hands of the small number of families which were prominent in Ottoman times, of which the most notable are the Husseinis. This family controls the most important of the Arab political parties, the Palestine Arab Party, which was formally organized in 1935. The objectives of this and of all Arab parties in Palestine are the immediate stoppage of Jewish immigration, the immediate prohibition of the sale of land to Jews, and the concession of independence to a State in which the Arab majority would be dominant.

    6. There has been no evidence that the Arab notables who appeared before the Committee, and whom the Committee visited in several countries, did not reflect accurately the views of their followers. The Arabic press, for example, protests as vehemently as Arab spokesmen against a Jewish influx of any kind, even if the certificates for admission were confined to old men and women and to children rescued from German death camps. In short, absolute, unqualified refusal of the Arabs to acquiesce in the admission of a single Jew to Palestine is the outstanding feature of Arab politics today; and the newly formed parties of the Left, based on the embryonic trade-union movement, display as intransigent a nationalism as the old leaders.

    continued

    Avalon Project - Anglo-American Committee of Inquiry - Chapter III
     
  5. sooda

    sooda Well-Known Member

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    Population
    4. According to official estimates, the population of Palestine grew from 750,000 at the census of 1922 to 1,765,000 at the end of 1944.

    In this period the Jewish part of the population rose from 84,000 to 554,000, and from 13 to 31 percent of the whole. Three-fourths of this expansion of the Jewish community was accounted for by immigration.

    Meanwhile the Arabs, though their proportion of the total population was falling, had increased by an even greater number-the Moslems alone from * Of this Moslem growth by 472,000, only 19,000 was accounted for by immigration. The expansion of the Arab community by natural increase has been in fact one of the most striking features of Palestine's social history under the Mandate.

    5. The present density of population in Palestine is officially estimated at 179 per square mile. If the largely desert sub-district of Beersheba is excluded from the calculation, the figure is 336.

    6. The Committee obtained estimates of the probable future growth of Palestine's population from Professor Notestein, Director of the Office of Population Research at Princeton University, from Dr. D. V. Glass, Research Secretary of the Population Investigation Committee in London, and in Palestine from the Commissioner for Migration and Statistics and the Government Statistician. The estimates for the non-Jewish population made by the last-named, on various hypotheses but with the constant assumption that there would be no non-Jewish immigration or emigration, ranged from 1,652,000 to 1,767,000 at the end of 1959. Professor Notestein, also assuming the absence of non-Jewish migration, extended his calculations to 1970 and arrived at a figure of 1,876,000.

    The Commissioner for Migration predicted an Arab population of 1,565,000 in 1960 and 1,820,000 in 1970. The highest estimates were those of Dr. Glass, who anticipated a settled Moslem population (i. e. excluding the Christian Arabs) of 1,636,000 in 1961 and 2,204,000 in 1971. For the probable Jewish population at the end of 1959, on the supposition that no immigration occurred in the interval, the Government Statistician put forward the figure of 664,000.

    7. The Jewish community, in the absence of immigration, would form a steadily diminishing proportion of the total population. This is clear from the comparative rates of natural increase, shown in the table below:

    continued

    Avalon Project - Anglo-American Committee of Inquiry - Chapter IV
     
  6. The Emperor of Mankind

    The Emperor of Mankind Currently the galaxy's spookiest paraplegic

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    Not all the land of Israel was theirs. Some of it was owned by Jewish families going back generations. Arabs didn't own everything.

    And for that matter, the land hadn't truly been 'theirs' in centuries; not in terms of geopolitical control. Sure, the Arabs had their own empires but the Ottomans took control in the Middle Ages. Funny how it's okay for the Arabs to have a myriad of their own countries but the Middle East's Jewish population isn't even allowed to have one.
     
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  7. Lyndon

    Lyndon "Peace is the answer" quote: GOD, 2014
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    Well then I suggest you go back to Europe where you come from and attempt to claim you land!!
     
  8. The Emperor of Mankind

    The Emperor of Mankind Currently the galaxy's spookiest paraplegic

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    Who was this directed against?
     
  9. sooda

    sooda Well-Known Member

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    The Jews owned 6% of the land in 1948.. and yes Palestine was sleepy and apolitical for 400 years under the Ottomans.. but, Israel had always been a vassal state under Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Persia, the Greeks and the Romans. Palestine was under foreign control most of its history.

    Not to forget the Byzantine Empire and how Omar invited the Jews to return to Jerusalem.

    The Jews were a tiny minority and they had lived all over the Arab word since before the birth of Christ and they had prospered.

    I get that they wanted their own country even if they had to commit genocide.
     
    #9 sooda, Mar 17, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2019
  10. sooda

    sooda Well-Known Member

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    Population of Palestine

    4. According to official estimates, the population of Palestine grew from 750,000 at the census of 1922 to 1,765,000 at the end of 1944.

    In this period the Jewish part of the population rose from 84,000 to 554,000, and from 13 to 31 percent of the whole. Three-fourths of this expansion of the Jewish community was accounted for by immigration.

    Meanwhile the Arabs, though their proportion of the total population was falling, had increased by an even greater number-the Moslems alone from * Of this Moslem growth by 472,000, only 19,000 was accounted for by immigration.

    The expansion of the Arab community by natural increase has been in fact one of the most striking features of Palestine's social history under the Mandate.

    Avalon Project - Anglo-American Committee of Inquiry - Chapter IV
     
  11. Lyndon

    Lyndon "Peace is the answer" quote: GOD, 2014
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    if the shoe fits, wear it!!
     
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  12. The Emperor of Mankind

    The Emperor of Mankind Currently the galaxy's spookiest paraplegic

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    And prior to this they had been under months of sustained attacks by Arabs who had already rejected a two-state solution.


    Palestine has never been a national identity in its own right. It hasn't even existed until after Israel was created.


    Except for the period in history when there was actually a Kingdom of Israel: between circa 900 - 720 BCE.


    The first mention of 'Palestine' is as a Roman province, not a nation-state. Not so for Israel.


    Or how they were subjected to pogroms across the Muslim world at various points throughout history.

    ... or how the Arabs invited themselves into Jerusalem as conquerors. If it's okay for the Arabs to live on land their ancestors gained through military victory, why not Jewish people?


    So because they're a 'tiny' minority they can't have self-determination & national self-governance like the Arabs do in over a dozen countries already?


    When have they committed genocide? Were the people of Gaza slaughtered wholesale while I was at work this week? Have Israel's Arab citizens been deprived of their citizenship and herded into camps?


    It doesn't fit me which is why I asked.
     
  13. Lyndon

    Lyndon "Peace is the answer" quote: GOD, 2014
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    People have no legal right to land they left hundreds or thousands of years ago. Your logic is flawed.
     
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  14. sooda

    sooda Well-Known Member

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    Palestine was a province of Syria according to the Greek historian Herodotus in 500 BC. Palestine is also mentioned in Shakespeare and Chaucer.

    Most Gazans are not born in Gaza.. They are refugees from the occupied West Bank and the Negev.

    Yes. Omar invited the Jews to return to Jerusalem in 717 A.D.

    For most of its history Israel was a vassal state under Egypt, Babylon, Assyria, the Greeks, Romans, Byzantium and Ottomans.
     
  15. The Emperor of Mankind

    The Emperor of Mankind Currently the galaxy's spookiest paraplegic

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    Precisely which part of my 'logic' is flawed in light of this? Please point out specific parts.

    And fair enough. They had no legal right to return until it was granted to them. And the Arabs had no legal right to attack the Jewish populations in their midst before Israel was even created but they did it anyway. The Arabs had no right to invade a sovereign country the day after it was created but they did it anyway. Or are you only against invasion of Muslim countries?

    On the subject of things which were legal: the Arabs had the legal right to expel their Jewish populations in numerous Arab countries (they drafted laws to this effect) and steal all their possessions. Should they have done it? No.

    Legal=/= moral.
     
  16. sooda

    sooda Well-Known Member

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    You may want to look into REAL history. The Jewish terror gangs were formed between 1920-1922.. and they killed over 500 British peacekeepers by 1948.

    Early on, by 1920, the Arab Jews and Arab Christians has organized to protest the alarming immigration of Jews from Russia, Eastern Europe etc because they didn't speak Arabic and looked down on the natives as inferior. .. and you know they were all socialists of one ilk or another and Bolsheviks to a man.

    Contrast that to the Jewish exiles from Spain and Portugal who settled in Hebron about 1492.. They had no problems.. The difference was Zionism.

    You can't blame Arab Jews for leaving the Arab countries. They left in waves in 1948, 1956, 1967 and 1973.. and what a loss for the Arabs. Jews had lived and prospered all over the Arab world for 1500 years or more.

    Zionism is to blame for what happened.
     
  17. The Emperor of Mankind

    The Emperor of Mankind Currently the galaxy's spookiest paraplegic

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    Exactly. A province; not a nation-state.


    Then they're not Gazans. Gazan is not a nationality.


    And were generally treated as second-class citizens wherever Muslims ruled. They were dhimmis, after all, with all the restrictions and removal of rights that entailed. Oh, and they had to pay the jizya.


    Right; most of its history. Not all of its history. Israel has existed as a national entity in the past and the concept has some historical grounding. Palestinian nationalism, however, is merely a reaction to the establishment of Israel, and as such seems interwoven with anti-Semitism.


    This is true, but it is also whataboutery. This does not excuse the Arabs' actions. Besides, the Jewish 'terror gangs' were fighting against colonialism. You'd think the likes of @Lyndon would be lavishing them with praise. But he doesn't and it's not hard to guess why...


    Foolishness. Generally speaking refugees fleeing the Soviet Union were probably not Bolsheviks as they were fleeing Bolshevik anti-Semitism. You might as well call say German Jewish refugees were Nazis because they came from Germany.


    The difference was the Jews having the audacity to want to govern themselves for a change because every non-Jewish majority they've lived among has rejected them. That includes Muslim ones.


    I don't blame Arab Jews. I blame Arab Muslims for enacting laws in Algeria, Iraq and other countries that forced their Jewish populations out.

    You talk of genocide but what of the forced expulsion & relocation of thousands of Jews from many Arab countries? Is the forced relocation of a population classed as a form of genocide; e.g. the Trail of Tears in the States?


    While they left voluntarily from some Arab countries, they were expelled from others. And I'll agree to 'lived and prospered' with a caveat of 'being subjected to pogroms & forced conversions. Take the Damascus affair, for example. Yet another instance of the ages-old 'Jewish blood libel' being trotted out. And one of the accused escaped torture by converting to Islam.


    No. Arab exceptionalism, intransigence & anti-Semitism are to blame. Why are the descendants of 'Palestinian' refugees allowed a right of return but Jewish descendants aren't? Why have the Arab countries forced the 'Palestinian' refugees to remain trapped in refugee camps rather than granting them full citizen rights as Israel has done with many Arabs?
     
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  18. Lyndon

    Lyndon "Peace is the answer" quote: GOD, 2014
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    What a completely biased and one sided view of a very complex issue!!!
     
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  19. sooda

    sooda Well-Known Member

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    Germany and Italy were not nation states until the 1800s. People still LIVED there.

    Only able-bodied men paid jizya in exemption to military service. Jizya was LESS Tax than Muslims paid .. Muslims paid Zakat.

    The Jewish terror gangs were colonials. Are you making excuses for killing British peacekeepers?

    Jews suffered in Europe NOT in the Arab world so why make them pay for the Holocaust?

    If not for Zionism Arab Jews would still be living all over the Arab world where there were no progroms.

    The Trail of Tears is a disgusting episode in US history and it too was simply about theft.. They believed gold had been discovered in the Cherokee Nation land. Is that your justification for the Nakba?

    Most Palestinians are descended from Jewish farmers who didn't leave Palestine. They stayed behind to farm, repair the Roman terraces and aqueducts, tend the 500 year old olive trees and protect the holy places of the Patriarchs.

    The Atlantic Monthly

    July 1920

    Zionist Aspirations in Palestine

    by Anstruther Mackay

    Zionist Aspirations in Palestine - 20.07

    If there is ever to be peace in the Middle East, the Jewish people have to tell the truth.

    In 1920 the Jews of Southeastern Europe are, almost to a man, Bolsheviki. Europe and America cannot allow the possibility of a homogeneous Bolshevist state in Palestine, whence the propagandists would be in an excellent position to preach their doctrines throughout Asia, Africa, and the Mediterranean coasts.
     
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  20. sooda

    sooda Well-Known Member

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    Notice that she said they aren't "Gazans" because there is no country called GAZA.. These refugees are NON People.
     
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