Pah
Uber all member
The following exchange took place in "Do you believe that the flood actually happened". The quoted material may be deficient from the thread where it was taken but the essence is here. The exchange was getting to be, if not already there, off topic to the thread
The question is Why did God treat the people of the Old Testament as "simple" people - in other words, as simpltons.
Nope - not a brush off this time but the answer you owed me the first time I asked for it.
Becuse he set out the explanation in his word and his word is defiecient for today.
It would also seem that society has done it without God.
I bet that that you do not force your cat to hunt for food. I'll bet you show more charity to the cat than the grandchildren of the undeucted farmer.
The question is Why did God treat the people of the Old Testament as "simple" people - in other words, as simpltons.
pah said:You even went further and showed an example of speaking to children. The adults of the times weren't children Why would I expect anything but an avoidance. Come on, Doc, show your mettle and answer the point given by the examples. It would seem that a challenge to omniscience, a piece of "important stuff", would not be overlooked. Why would God "talk down" to supposedly "simple" people. Ignorant yes but not stupid - or are you thinking simple equates to stupid or children or both?
Just so you don't have to go looking, here the examples are againHere is the commentary.pah said:I'm thinking along the lines of why wasn't there a concept of the universe or even the galaxy taught instead of the firmament. Why wasn't Jesus taken by Satan into space with an orbit around the earth instead of going to a high mountain. Why wasn't the whole of theology laid out in clear unequivical terms. Why wasn't evolution taught. Why was it understood that the firmament opened up and water from above the earth poured onto the earth. (this last to try to include the topic).pah said:It is likely that the knowledge of the day was written into the Bible by men and not from the inspired omnipotence of God. He has enough troubles without bring forth the phrase "You can't handle it". Why would he create his chosen creature that "can't handle it"?
There really hasn't been any increase in brain capacity since the first man of his YEC creation - has there? I'll give ya that some will believe an OEC cojoined with evolution. But the active God of the Old Testament and the active Christ of the New, were still many thousands of years later after humanity aquired its current mental capability. Such an empty slate left virtually empty for so long.
It only takes about 21 years to gain the knowledge of a university graduate - seems it should be an easy task for the omnipotent over the so many decades both before and while the Bible was written
Anyone? - just in case NetDoc brushes me off again.
Anyone going to say that God wants us to struggle to cope with the world he created? It's no spiritual hurdle he's placing in the way of salvation, just a way of amoral living.
Now I might buy an answer that involes deism - a creator that doesn't interact but then there would be no reason for the "righteous Noah" to launch a boat.
Ya just can't talk about the flood without coming back to the question of the existence of God and whether the Bible is his word if he does exist.
Nope - not a brush off this time but the answer you owed me the first time I asked for it.
NetDoc said:Why does God "owe" us an explanation?
Becuse he set out the explanation in his word and his word is defiecient for today.
Just what purpose does character have with salvation? Just what character is to be delevoped from placing humanity in a hole, knowlege wise. Why should God give false information? to provide us pleasure when we correct his word? I have no need of mollification brought on a silver platter, I have need for truth and false scientific idata was given. I'm saying there was no need to give falsities becuase of the ability God was supposed to have given us. Simpletons indeed!NetDoc said:Part of the great part of being human is "discovery". Whether it's a new continent, a new species or a new concept, we are DRIVEN to discover new things. The concept drives our history and shapes our future. Why should God deprive us of all of that? Other than to mollify you and your need to have everything handed to you on a silver platter with a golden spoon! Yeah, God wants us to struggle... and perhaps build a little character!
Your example misses the point of the time involved. Given proper knowledge (it's called schooling) the stick is likely to be replace by a John Deere in 2 to 3 generations. That farmer is going to listen when you talk about the benefit of education to his children, his grandchildren and his great grandchildren. So don't give me that "slice of time" argument - it just doesn't applyNetDoc said:Look how much society has changed just in the past few decades. Things that would have been scandalous in the 50s are pretty common place nowadays. You could not talk to them about the internet without appearing to be a loon. Now you want God to explain evolution to a people who don't even understand what an element is? Preposterous! You want him to carefully instruct a subsistance farmer in the ins and outs of astro physics, and he is still using a simple stone tiped dingle stick to plant these cool things that grow into more food? Oh yeah... he's gonna listen.
And every society that we do not educate is going to wallow in ignorance. But apparently God and you don't see it that way - you'd rather have people pull them selves up by the bootstrap. It's not the first uneducated person that garners the most from being educated, it is the society in 40-60 years that prospers. And you and God, according to you, want them to take pleasure from the struggle of living. Yeah - that's a benificient God. Why bother with charity at all?NetDoc said:You want reality? Go ask someone who has been involved in the Peace Corps how hard it is to train adults how to farm, much less to understand why they should farm that way.
Society grows up, just as humans do. Every society that has existed on this earth can be seen to go through transitions. That's just part of being a human, and understanding this history is part of what sets me apart from the cat purring beside me.
It would also seem that society has done it without God.
I bet that that you do not force your cat to hunt for food. I'll bet you show more charity to the cat than the grandchildren of the undeucted farmer.
You will notice that my original prodding was because you would not explain your belief - you gave me a brush-off.. And I still do not vilify your belief - it's your view of your faith that is questioned.NetDoc said:Now call this a "brush off" if you will... I really don't care. I have been villified enough for what I believe that I have grown rather used to it.