Why did God send Messenger to convey His message instead of directly coming to speak?

[David1967]

why He did not directly make Himself appear on earth and talk to humanity?

It certainly would have simplified things wouldn't it.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

I'm not familiar with any "coming" of G-d. Can you give me a verse with that phrase?

See Isaiah 9 as an example. A child will be born whose name is Mighty God, ....and continue readimg till the last verse, which says The Lord will accomplish those goals.

 

[Jeremiah Ames]

What I was blaming was irrationality and, specifically, belief without evidence. Of course you need people but people do things for reasons. One of the reasons that people cause conflict, suffering, and death is because they believe their god(s), want them to.

Take away the irrational belief and you have one less reason for people to cause conflict, suffering, and death.

I agree with what you say.

I hope you don’t think I was referring to you in my previous comment.
I was commenting in general terms.

 

[Jeremiah Ames]

Yes I’ve read it. I know there were wars and Israel had enemies who’s main objective was to destroy them completely.

It’s own my personal view but I believe it’s because humanity has completely disregarded the laws of God like love your fellow man that resulted in horrendous wars like the crusades, WW1 and WW2.

I can’t see how we would not all be living in peace and prosperity if we all obeyed that one law alone of Jesus.

Beautifully stated.

 

[QuestioningMind]

For those who believe that God sent Prophets and Messengers, the Question is why He did not directly make Himself appear on earth and talk to humanity?
I suppose those who believe in Prophets and Messengers would be limited to Jews, Christians, Muslims, Zoroatrians, and Bahais. If I missed anyone else, please include.


If you say, God is invisible or cannot possibly come to earth as a Being, then how do you explain those verses in your Holy Book which explicitly speaks of the Day of Resurrection or the judgement Day, or the Last Day, when the Lord would be on earth?

Yeah, I've always thought that for a being that's supposed to be all knowing and all powerful, this God certainly is a lousy communicator. He whispered His message into the ears of poor shepherds who eventually wrote it down in a language that would eventually die out. It's almost as if it was designed to be incomprehensible.

 

[QuestioningMind]

If this happened, the concept of faith would not exist. Anyone who did not believe would be judged insane. There would be 1 religion, and that religion would be determined to be fact.

So. The simple answer is: God wants us to have faith.

If God wanted to speak directly to Humanity, then God would speak directly to Humanity. But doing so would be a fundamental change in reality rendering the concept of faith in God null and meaningless.

disclaimer: all of this is assuming God exists.

And why exactly is believing in things without verifiable evidence a thing God wants people to engage in? I mean, if God wants us to abandon logic and rational thought when it comes to believing in Him, isn't there a danger that they'll also abandon logic and rational thinking when it comes to things like... global warming or the validity of vaccinations?

 

[QuestioningMind]

What is the least bit wrong about it?

The idiots who flew planes into buildings on 9/11 had enormous faith that God wanted them to kill a bunch on innocent civilians. They had so much faith that they scarified their lives for it. Personally I think they were 100% wrong. What about you? And if they WERE wrong, isn't it a terrible shame that they decided to abandon logic and rational thought for religious faith?

 

[Remté]

In specific occasion yes, prophet prohibited someone not to write. This does not mean never write, but it means people need to be careful about them.

Can you know that is the case?

This is what the prophet and His sons has said about Hadithes:

His sons? Who are his sons? Presumably dead each of them early on since being born.

If Hadithes are compatable with Quran, and have an evidence from Quran, they should be accepted:

Some similar quotes say "if they agree with the Quran" it changes the impression it leaves certainly.

abu ‘Abdallah (a.s.) has said the following:
"The holy Prophet once addressed the people in Mina (a place in Makkah) saying, "O people, whatever comes to you in the form of my Hadith you must see if it agrees with the holy book of Allah then know that I have said it but whatever comes to you that does not agree with the book of Allah then know that I have not said it."

Another Hadith I have heard says he ordered someone to destroy all he had written of Muhammad and also that some were shown to him and he agreed with only *parts* in them.

Yes, the message of the Quran is clear. So, when it says some of its verses are unclear and to know its interpretations we need to refer to the people who were well grounded in knowledge, to understand them clearly. In another words, if one follows the instructions of Quran which are clear, then all things become clear. So, now, to know interpretations quran says, you need to learn from those who were well grounded in knowledge. Is this not clear?

I don't see it saying that per ce.

Why wouldnt you want to see how Muhammad and His sons interpreted the verses?

I would but I can only suppose.

 

[Tumah]

See Isaiah 9 as an example. A child will be born whose name is Mighty God, ....and continue readimg till the last verse, which says The Lord will accomplish those goals.

Yes, it says that the Zeal of G-d of Hosts does this. This does not mean G-d physically performs something (I'm not even sure what the physical thing would be here). It means that the events that occurred to cause that prophecy to be fulfilled where a product of G-d directing events with His trait of Zeal.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

Yes, it says that the Zeal of G-d of Hosts does this. This does not mean G-d physically performs something (I'm not even sure what the physical thing would be here). It means that the events that occurred to cause that prophecy to be fulfilled where a product of G-d directing events with His trait of Zeal.

So, you think isaiah 9 had already come to pass?

 

[InvestigateTruth]

Can you know that is the case?

His sons? Who are his sons? Presumably dead each of them early on since being born.


Some similar quotes say "if they agree with the Quran" it changes the impression it leaves certainly.

Another Hadith I have heard says he ordered someone to destroy all he had written of Muhammad and also that some were shown to him and he agreed with only *parts* in them.

I don't see it saying that per ce.

I would but I can only suppose.

The Sons of Muhammad, is just a term in islam, referring to the 12 Imams. It has a more sporitual significance than a literally His own child. It is just time to agree to disagree. I leave it as that.

 

[Tumah]

So, you think isaiah 9 had already come to pass?

The most obvious interpretation is that it's talking about Hezekiah, so yes.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

The most obvious interpretation is that it's talking about Hezekiah, so yes.

So, who these verses apply to?

For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counseller, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

7 Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.


Who is this child who was called mighty God, prince of peace, whose government had no end?

In Torah, is there a time known as Judgement Day? Or Resurrection Day? Is there a time known as the End Time? Would there be a Resurrection of Dead, so, God then Judges humanity? Are there hell and heaven in Torah? When and how will be decided who will go to hell and who to hevean?

 

[dybmh]

And why exactly is believing in things without verifiable evidence a thing God wants people to engage in?

I don't think it's technically good.

I mean, if God wants us to abandon logic and rational thought when it comes to believing in Him, isn't there a danger that they'll also abandon logic and rational thinking when it comes to things like... global warming or the validity of vaccinations?

I don't think the Abrahamic version of God wants us to abandon logic and rational thinking.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Not at all. I'm just pointing out some of the inconsistencies, contradictions, and general lack of coherent sense in many views of god.



Now you're backtracking on what you said: "God teaches only love and unity, brotherhood and mercy in the books of all religions".



So, we're cherry-picking. How are we supposed to tell the real words of god? It's not even like the New Testament is free of nastiness: misogyny 1 Timothy 2:12, Ephesians 5:22, homophobia Romans 1:27.

No I’m not backtracking. God’s s Revelations are all for the purpose of love and unity. The Ten Commandments keep rider and that maintains unity amongst the people.

I’m honestly not cherry picking here but if we are to remain honest then I believe we must distinguish Divine Revelation from a story written by an unknown person 2 centuries after the event. Moses received a Revelation from God. And the Tablets. Jesus is confirmed as a Prophet by the Gospels, the Quran, the Bab and Baha’u’llah. Christ also confirmed Moses. But the Book of Samuel has no known author, no confirmed revelation, no Holy Book or Laws just an account written much later than the event and it does not support the Ten Commandments which do not support genocide so I believe that account to be an inaccurate account of what really happened.

Baha’u’llah also said that it was Ishmael that Abraham was asked to offer up not Isaac. As He is a Manifestation I believe it to be true. The essence of the Bible is thr Word of God but not every word was divinely revealed by God so scribes might have erred and that is understandable comsidering the antiquity of these ancient documents.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Beautifully stated.

Hi brother. Thanks very much. Keep the Faith.

 

[CG Didymus]

So you want to have it both ways to say God doesn’t exist yet when you see a chance to attack God then all of a sudden He does exists. Lol

The books of Samuel were recorded by an unknown author some 2 centuries after the events. They were not a Revelation from God and all indications are they were more like Hadiths that if consistent with the Quran can be considered valid but as this is completely inconsistent with the rest of the content in the Bible I do not believe it is accurate or authentic as it directly goes against the Ten Commandments and that in itself makes the account suspect.

The things in the Bible we can be absolutely sure of being the Words of God and true I firmly believe, are such things as are confirmed and explained by subsequent Messengers of God such as Muhammad, the Bab and Baha’u’llah.

That's very interesting. So another story in the Bible that Baha'is don't believe is "authentic". So Samuel never told Saul those things about the Amalekites? Or, God never told Samuel to tell Saul those things about killing everybody?

Are you absolutely sure about the things that Jesus affirmed about stories in the Bible? Or, since the NT is not wholly "authentic" either, would those things be the gospel writers putting words in Jesus' mouth?

 

[CG Didymus]

That’s not the true story. The Israelites were attacked by their enemies for over 500 years with intent to exterminate the Jews.

Joshua and the Israelites go in and take the land at God orders. Read the story of Jericho again.

 

[CG Didymus]

Well God could have just made us subservient robots but He wanted us to choose for ourselves not force us to worship Him or obey His laws.

We are completely free to choose our own path without God interfering.

In the next world, do Baha'is believe we will still have free will? If so, then will some turn away from God? If not, then he only made this world a big test? But, he put people in different situations with different capacities and born into religions that didn't teach the truth about him? And, made people with a limited capacity to understand spiritual things? And made it appear that all the religions are so mixed up that it sometimes makes more sense to reject all of them? But, then he judges those that do reject him?

 

[CG Didymus]

I see it matters extremely. If you think God sent down a Book containing unclear verses, and yet He did not raise a certain people who are firm in knowledge of interpretation, you are basically imagining a God with an incomplete revelation. How could God sent down a Book, and yet leave people in confusion as what is the true interpretations of its unclear verses? You may think that, but would a person who truely believes Quran is the word of God can possibly think that way?

You guys and gals are getting into some interesting stuff here. But really, The Bible and the NT are unclear. People after Jesus was killed were left in confusion. He gets them out of confusion by coming back to life and talking to them, but Baha'is say that never really happened. The Church went on to decide on which books get put into the NT. They go on to decide on controversial issues, one of them was whether Jesus was part of a Godhead. Baha'is say they were wrong. Jesus is not God. Baha'is say the physical body of Jesus is dead and gone. So God left nothing but confusion.