Why did God send Messenger to convey His message instead of directly coming to speak?

[TransmutingSoul]

Since people don't seem to have the capacity to be "perfectly" loving, do Baha'is expect God to help in changing that... to increase people's capacity to truly love and to be selfless?

It may not necessarily be love that first unites us or establishes world peace. We may have no other choice but peace and when we taste it for the very first time ever in our history we may actually like it and begin to change. Just like people have learned to love their country or drive a car is second nature. After peace comes we may become lovers of humanity and that doesn’t mean perfection but we’ll be in a much better space and our lives will become a lot happier and meaningful.

I think this is now inevitable. Humanity is heading towards a crisis that will required a unified effort to overcome.

It seems it is so hard to accept our oneness, unless we have crisis.

Regards Tony

 

[Trailblazer]

I think this is now inevitable. Humanity is heading towards a crisis that will required a unified effort to overcome.

It seems it is so hard to accept our oneness, unless we have crisis.

I think it might be generally true that people do not come together voluntarily but they do so when there is a crisis. Natural disasters such as hurricanes, floods, etc. show this is the case...

Heck, my husband and I do not work together very well, but when there is a crisis, we work together as one.
I cannot believe what it takes to get him off his duff, but I do not hope for a repeat of that emergency.

 

[Workman]

They said to him:”Tell us who you are so that we may believe in you.”

He said to them:”You examine the face of sky and earth, but the one who is before you, you have not recognized, and you do not know how to test this opportunity.”

 

[IndigoChild5559]

For those who believe that God sent Prophets and Messengers, the Question is why He did not directly make Himself appear on earth and talk to humanity?
I suppose those who believe in Prophets and Messengers would be limited to Jews, Christians, Muslims, Zoroatrians, and Bahais. If I missed anyone else, please include.


If you say, God is invisible or cannot possibly come to earth as a Being, then how do you explain those verses in your Holy Book which explicitly speaks of the Day of Resurrection or the judgement Day, or the Last Day, when the Lord would be on earth?

God is not a being of space and time. He does not have a body. He doesn't even have a location. Thus he speaks through those who can "hear" his voice or sends heavenly beings who DO have form.

 

[CG Didymus]

I think it might be generally true that people do not come together voluntarily but they do so when there is a crisis. Natural disasters such as hurricanes, floods, etc. show this is the case...

Heck, my husband and I do not work together very well, but when there is a crisis, we work together as one.
I cannot believe what it takes to get him off his duff, but I do not hope for a repeat of that emergency.

Yes, it's been a disaster without you. Where have you been? With your atheist friends again? Anyway, Christians have their "apocalypse" Bad things happen then Jesus comes down out of the sky on a white horse and destroys Satan and all the evil people. So is the problem fixed? I doubt it if ordinary people aren't changed. Like you say those people don't come together until they have to. So after the calamity, and all goes peaceful, what is going to keep those people from getting too complacent?

Christians seem to think that people will be changed and they won't have Satan messing with them anymore, but Baha'is don't believe in Satan. So after a major crisis what do Baha'i think is going to happen? Considering the world has had nothing but major crisis's since Baha'u'llah has come. And after each one, there is always another problem. What is going to change?

 

[lunamoth]

For those who believe that God sent Prophets and Messengers, the Question is why He did not directly make Himself appear on earth and talk to humanity?
I suppose those who believe in Prophets and Messengers would be limited to Jews, Christians, Muslims, Zoroatrians, and Bahais. If I missed anyone else, please include.


If you say, God is invisible or cannot possibly come to earth as a Being, then how do you explain those verses in your Holy Book which explicitly speaks of the Day of Resurrection or the judgement Day, or the Last Day, when the Lord would be on earth?

Probably someone else has already pointed this out in this long thread I don't have time to read all of, but Christians believe that God did directly incarnate on earth and talk to humanity.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

Probably someone else has already pointed this out in this long thread I don't have time to read all of, but Christians believe that God did directly incarnate on earth and talk to humanity.

So, why before Jesus, God sent prophets, instead of incarnating Himself? Why after sending so many prophets, He finally decided to incarnate?

 

[lunamoth]

So, why before Jesus, God sent prophets, instead of incarnating Himself? Why after sending so many prophets, He finally decided to incarnate?

It's sort of like a parent yelling down the stairs... "Don't make me come down there!" JK. ;-)

But, it does seem like we have a hard time hearing prophets.

 

[Trailblazer]

Yes, it's been a disaster without you. Where have you been? With your atheist friends again?

Thanks, it is nice to me missed, that made my day.

Yeah, fool that I am I went back there. I cannot remember exactly what precipitated that, but it was just something that unfolded and I felt I was being drawn back there for a reason. I feel like a freaking ping-pong ball... First I am there, then I am here, now I am back there. But the forum owner could be ramping up again, so I could depart once again, we'll see. He has it in for the Baha'i Faith so I am lucky that i am tolerated at all. It is mainly an atheist forum but Jews and Christians are tolerated, Baha'is not so much because our claims are not so preposterous and refutable... Does he really think I do not know what Baha'i is singled out?

Anyway, Christians have their "apocalypse" Bad things happen then Jesus comes down out of the sky on a white horse and destroys Satan and all the evil people. So is the problem fixed? I doubt it if ordinary people aren't changed. Like you say those people don't come together until they have to. So after the calamity, and all goes peaceful, what is going to keep those people from getting too complacent?

Christians seem to think that people will be changed and they won't have Satan messing with them anymore, but Baha'is don't believe in Satan. So after a major crisis what do Baha'i think is going to happen? Considering the world has had nothing but major crisis's since Baha'u'llah has come. And after each one, there is always another problem. What is going to change?

From a Bahai pov, Satan represents the evil within ourselves, the lower selfish materialistic nature of man. We all have it and we have to fight against it. Christians have this dreamy idea that Satan is a being exterior to themselves making them do bad stuff, so once we get rid of him, we are home free and good to do....
Which belief makes more sense to you?

Nobody knows what the future holds and I don't ever think about it unless someone like you brings it up. Baha'is do not know if there is going to be a major calamity, and if there is we do not know what it will be or when it will be or where it will be, so I see no point thinking about it. Christians all believe in different things and they have no evidence that anything is going to happen.

What would happen in the aftermath of a major calamity is that I think people would have finally wake up and realize that God is the only thing that matters and God is our only hope. Also, they would look to the religion that has the answers to the world's problems, and that religion IS the Bahai' Faith, hands down. Is this what it is going to take? I don't know, but there are certain indications that it is likely...

“The world is in travail, and its agitation waxeth day by day. Its face is turned towards waywardness and unbelief. Such shall be its plight, that to disclose it now would not be meet and seemly. Its perversity will long continue. And when the appointed hour is come, there shall suddenly appear that which shall cause the limbs of mankind to quake.Then, and only then, will the Divine Standard be unfurled, and the Nightingale of Paradise warble its melody.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 118-119

“He Who is the Eternal Truth knoweth well what the breasts of men conceal. His long forbearance hath emboldened His creatures, for not until the appointed time is come will He rend any veil asunder. His surpassing mercy hath restrained the fury of His wrath, and caused most people to imagine that the one true God is unaware of the things they have privily committed. By Him Who is the All-Knowing, the All-Informed! The mirror of His knowledge reflecteth, with complete distinctness, precision and fidelity, the doings of all men.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 204

“We have a fixed time for you, O peoples. If ye fail, at the appointed hour, to turn towards God, He, verily, will lay violent hold on you, and will cause grievous afflictions to assail you from every direction. How severe, indeed, is the chastisement with which your Lord will then chastise you!”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 214​

But I do not need a calamity to know that God is my only hope, as my life IS a series of calamities, one right after another or running alongside each other, as is going on now. If there is no Loving God, there is no hope for me. I will just crash and burn. Apparently, this is what it takes for God to get my attention; well He has it already so He can let up a little on the accelerator.

Did you hear about our major snowstorm up here in Washington? It was unprecedented. That was a week ago and the internet phone and TV were down for three days... The car has not moved since. There is still snow on the ground but we could probably get it out of the driveway now. We walked to the bus stop to get groceries last night. The septic backed up, the whole nine yards. I think that is unrelated to the weather, but I don't know since I don't have time to deal with it right now. We cannot use much water till we find out what is going on, but our other two houses that are rentals have bigger emergencies to deal with so I can live without doing laundry and taking fewer showers.

What would happen to most people if there was a real calamity? The woman at the septic company who I know well said that people cannot even handle not being able to flush a toilet so they call her in the middle of the night. We have had a blocked drain in the kitchen sink for three years so we do dishes in the bathtub, but we are both Baha'is so we understand the insignificance of the material world. The only thing we care about are our 10 cats so if there was a calamity that is all we would be thinking of.

Americans are so freaking spoiled and materialistic, I guess Christianity has not helped them that much. Maybe it will take a calamity to wake them up. I am up for it as long as I have plenty of cat food and water.

Don't become a stranger. If you send me a post I will get a notification. I will be checking.

 

[Trailblazer]

Why after sending so many prophets, He finally decided to incarnate?

He didn't....

“Know thou of a certainty that the Unseen can in no wise incarnate His Essence and reveal it unto men. He is, and hath ever been, immensely exalted beyond all that can either be recounted or perceived. From His retreat of glory His voice is ever proclaiming: “Verily, I am God; there is none other God besides Me, the All-Knowing, the All-Wise. I have manifested Myself unto men, and have sent down Him Who is the Day Spring of the signs of My Revelation. Through Him I have caused all creation to testify that there is none other God except Him, the Incomparable, the All-Informed, the All-Wise.” He Who is everlastingly hidden from the eyes of men can never be known except through His Manifestation, and His Manifestation can adduce no greater proof of the truth of His Mission than the proof of His own Person.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 49”

 

[syo]

For those who believe that God sent Prophets and Messengers, the Question is why He did not directly make Himself appear on earth and talk to humanity?
I suppose those who believe in Prophets and Messengers would be limited to Jews, Christians, Muslims, Zoroatrians, and Bahais. If I missed anyone else, please include.


If you say, God is invisible or cannot possibly come to earth as a Being, then how do you explain those verses in your Holy Book which explicitly speaks of the Day of Resurrection or the judgement Day, or the Last Day, when the Lord would be on earth?

Orthodox Christians believe God came to earth as Jesus. God the Son not God the Father. God the Son came to earth and he will come again.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

Orthodox Christians believe God came to earth as Jesus. God the Son not God the Father. God the Son came to earth and he will come again.

Even if orthodox christians believe Jesus is incarnation of God, before Jesus came, prophets came, not God, why is that? And why Son came, not the Father, or both together?

 

[syo]

before Jesus came, prophets came, not God, why is that?

Prophets' job was to say to humans about the coming of Jesus. They prepaired the path for the Son coming.

 

[syo]

And why Son came, not the Father, or both together?

Good question. The Son came as man to die and resurrect. The Father had no job to do. The Father come to do what?

 

[InvestigateTruth]

Prophets' job was to say to humans about the coming of Jesus.
coming.
They prepaired the path for the Son coming.

How did they prepare the way for the Son? If you are saying The aultumate goal was for the Son to come, and die for the sins, ane resurrect, this could have happened long before even Abraham, yes? If the prophets prepared the way for the Son, so, He may be accepted by people, did they accept Him, or cruicified Him? They cruicified, so, how prepration worked really?

 

[syo]

How did they prepare the way for the Son? If you are saying The aultumate goal was for the Son to come, and die for the sins, ane resurrect, this could have happened long before even Abraham, yes? If the prophets prepared the way for the Son, so, He may be accepted by people, did they accept Him, or cruicified Him? They cruicified, so, how prepration worked really?

Maybe it's a preparation for a few people who would actually accept Jesus. Not everyone accepts Jesus, even nowadays.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

Good question. The Son came as man to die and resurrect. The Father had no job to do. The Father come to do what?

Jesus asked them to do the will of the father. So, why the father did not come to say what His will is directly, rather than asking the Son to convey the message?

 

[syo]

Jesus asked them to do the will of the father. So, why the father did not come to say what His will is directly, rather than asking the Son to convey the message?

I don't know. Maybe the Father doesn't want to force his will upon us.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

I don't know. Maybe the Father doesn't want to force his will upon us.

Ok, but there are some part of the scriptures, which alludes, figuratively that eventually the Father comes instead of the Son. Jesus said, On that no one will ask the Son anything anymore, but the father Himself will be with them and loves them. The son will no longer be asked on behalf of the Father.

 

[syo]

Ok, but there are some part of the scriptures, which alludes, figuratively that eventually the Father comes instead of the Son. Jesus said, On that no one will ask the Son anything anymore, but the father Himself will be with them and loves them. The son will no longer be asked on behalf of the Father.

I think this is after the second coming. I don't know, actually. After the end of the world and the beginning of a new one.