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Featured Why did God protect Cain in Genesis?

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by Nowhere Man, Sep 30, 2017.

  1. Nowhere Man

    Nowhere Man Bompu Zen Man with a little bit of Bushido.

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  2. Deeje

    Deeje Deeje
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    Since it was God's stated purpose that humans were to "fill the earth", the human race had so few members at that time, that it would have been counter productive to eliminate even one more human. Able had already lost his life at his brother's hand.

    It is interesting to note that Cain took a wife when he was banished to a harsh land east of Eden. Where did Cain get his wife?

    Genesis 5:4 says...."After becoming father to Seth, Adam lived for 800 years. And he became father to sons and daughters."

    Since the daughters are not named in the Bible, (only the sons) it is apparent that Cain took one of his sisters as a wife. This was not an uncommon practice in patriarchal times before the Law was given. Sarah was Abraham's half sister. (Genesis 20:11-12) There was no law against incest, so no law was broken. The Apostle Paul acknowledged that "...by the law is the knowledge of sin." So once the law was given, this practice was no longer acceptable.

    Cain's descendants are listed in part and include men who distinguished themselves in nomadic stock raising, the playing of musical instruments, and the forging of metal tools. His family line were eliminated in the flood, probably because they were also noted for their violence and immorality.
     
  3. Tumah

    Tumah Veteran Member

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    He didn't protect him, He punished him with exile. Because this was the first murder, Cain's case was judged as an accidental murder (he had an excuse that he didn't know that smashing someone over the head with a stone would cause him to die). The punishment for accidental murder is exile (although this was a particularly stringent exile as normal exile is to an absorption city, while this was to roam around).

    When he heard the punishment, he repented somewhat (vs. 13 "my sin is to great to bear") and was given some amount of reprieve by that his punishment wouldn't be greater than what was already decreed: he wouldn't have to worry about being killed.
     
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  4. Enoch07

    Enoch07 Theistic Rationalist and Libertarian
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    I assume you mean:

    Genesis 4:11-16

    11 And now art thou cursed from the earth, which hath opened her mouth to receive thy brother's blood from thy hand;

    12 When thou tillest the ground, it shall not henceforth yield unto thee her strength; a fugitive and a vagabond shalt thou be in the earth.

    13 And Cain said unto the Lord, My punishment is greater than I can bear.

    14 Behold, thou hast driven me out this day from the face of the earth; and from thy face shall I be hid; and I shall be a fugitive and a vagabond in the earth; and it shall come to pass, that every one that findeth me shall slay me.

    15 And the Lord said unto him, Therefore whosoever slayeth Cain, vengeance shall be taken on him sevenfold. And the Lord set a mark upon Cain, lest any finding him should kill him.

    16 And Cain went out from the presence of the Lord, and dwelt in the land of Nod, on the east of Eden.

    To make an example of Cain. He wanted Cain to live a long life for murdering Abel. So that he would have plenty of time to dwell on what he had done. By placing the curse on Cain it would make Cain undesirable to be murded. Or else the murderer himself of Cain would suffer 7 fold the punishment that Cain suffers.
     
  5. Deeje

    Deeje Deeje
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    That is not the way I read the Genesis account. God put a sign on Cain so that if anyone took his life, they were to be punished.

    Able's murder was premeditated. God actually warned him that if he did not change his attitude that he would commit a grave sin.....it was no accident.

    Perhaps reading your own scripture might help......

    Genesis 4:4-14...."Now it came to pass at the end of days, that Cain brought of the fruit of the soil an offering to the Lord.
    4 And Abel he too brought of the firstborn of his flocks and of their fattest, and the Lord turned to Abel and to his offering.
    5 But to Cain and to his offering He did not turn, and it annoyed Cain exceedingly, and his countenance fell.
    6 And the Lord said to Cain, "Why are you annoyed, and why has your countenance fallen?
    7 Is it not so that if you improve, it will be forgiven you? If you do not improve, however, at the entrance, sin is lying, and to you is its longing, but you can rule over it."
    8 And Cain spoke to Abel his brother, and it came to pass when they were in the field, that Cain rose up against Abel his brother and slew him.
    9 And the Lord said to Cain, "Where is Abel your brother?" And he said, "I do not know. Am I my brother's keeper?"
    10 And He said, "What have you done? Hark! Your brother's blood cries out to Me from the earth.
    11 And now, you are cursed even more than the ground, which opened its mouth to take your brother's blood from your hand.
    12 When you till the soil, it will not continue to give its strength to you; you shall be a wanderer and an exile in the land."
    13 And Cain said to the Lord, "Is my iniquity too great to bear?
    14 Behold You have driven me today off the face of the earth, and I shall be hidden from before You, and I will be a wanderer and an exile in the land, and it will be that whoever finds me will kill me."
    15 And the Lord said to him, "Therefore, whoever kills Cain, vengeance will be wrought upon him sevenfold," and the Lord placed a mark on Cain that no one who find him slay him.
    16And Cain went forth from before the Lord, and he dwelt in the land of the wanderers, to the east of Eden."
    (Complete Tanach)

    Berei**** - Genesis - Chapter 4 (Parshah Berei****)

    LOL...gotta love the censorship....:p
     
    #5 Deeje, Sep 30, 2017
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2017
  6. Tumah

    Tumah Veteran Member

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    That's not what it says. First it says if anyone kills him, they will be punished. Now that there's precedent for murder, no one has an excuse and so they'll be judged like a murderer.
    Then it says that G-d put a sign for Cain so that no one hits him. The sign doesn't punish people, it protects Cain from people trying to kill him.

    I don't see anywhere in the passage where it says that the murder was premeditated.
    A warning that sin crouches at the door is fairly vague.
    Even if you were right and it was premeditated, that still doesn't mean that he should understand the severity of the sin. No where was he told that murder will get him killed (unlike Adam who was told on the day that he eats from the tree he would die).

    Naturally I read the passage and commentaries before I responded to this thread... I don't know what you intended to express with the two underlined verses as they don't seem to be related whatsoever.
     
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  7. Faithofchristian

    Faithofchristian Well-Known Member

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    Cain didn't take a sister to wife. Adam and Eve didn't have any other children at the time of Cain and Able.

    After Cain killed Able, Adam and Eve had another child and called his name Seth.

    "And the days of Adam after he had begotten Seth were eight hundred years: and he begat sons and daughters"

    This being Seth had sons and daughters and not Adam. Genesis 5:4.

    After Seth was born, Adam lived eight hundred years. And Seth had sons and daughters.
     
  8. Faithofchristian

    Faithofchristian Well-Known Member

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    God didn't protect Cain, God put mark on Cain. God curse the ground not Cain.

    What was the mark that God put on Cain?
     
  9. DavidFirth

    DavidFirth Well-Known Member

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    Cain said his punishment was more than he could bear and God had mercy on him by putting the mark on him that no one should kill him.

    I believe God is merciful and still offers His mercy to people today through faith in His Son as it is written.
     
  10. Faithofchristian

    Faithofchristian Well-Known Member

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    As to where do you come by that God had Mercy on Cain, there is nothing Written that God had Mercy on Cain.

    God curse Cain. "And now art thou cursed from the earth" Genesis 4:11.

    God curse Cain, but nothing Written that God had Mercy on Cain.
    This is what happens with people always adding to God's word or deleting from God's word.
    Then you wonder why people look down on Christians. For this very reason, you add to and delete from.

    Show one verse in Genesis chapter 4 as to where it is written that God had Mercy on Cain.
     
  11. Deeje

    Deeje Deeje
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    Please read it again......

    In the preceding verses it says...."Adam lived for 130 years and then became father to a son in his likeness, in his image, and he named him Seth. 4 After becoming father to Seth, Adam lived for 800 years. And he became father to sons and daughters. 5 So all the days of Adam’s life amounted to 930 years, and then he died."

    Then it says..."Seth lived for 105 years and then became father to Eʹnosh. 7 After becoming father to Eʹnosh, Seth lived for 807 years. And he became father to sons and daughters. 8 So all the days of Seth amounted to 912 years, and then he died."

    Both had "sons and daughters" like many others mentioned in the family history....and Cain did not get his wife from nowhere.

    If you go through the record, no daughters are named because the men were considered the patriarchs or heads of the family. The word "father" means "life-giver" which is why God is referred to as a "Father" and not a "mother".

    So there is nothing in scripture to prevent daughters being born during the intervening years between Cain's assault on Abel, and Seth's birth.

    Adam was 130 years old when Seth was born and because Abel was murdered and Cain was banished, God began again with Seth as the founder or father of the genealogy. Cain's offspring are not counted among Jehovah's people.
     
  12. Faithofchristian

    Faithofchristian Well-Known Member

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    Genesis 5:4--"And the days of Adam after he had begotten Seth were eight hundred years: And he begat sons and daughters"

    Only Seth had sons and daughters,
    not Adam and Eve.

    Maybe you need to read again Genesis chapter 1 and then read chapter 5, then maybe you see where Cain wife came from.Ok
     
    #12 Faithofchristian, Oct 1, 2017
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2017
  13. DavidFirth

    DavidFirth Well-Known Member

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    Relax, man. God had mercy on Cain in that He didn't kill Cain himself. Also, He put a mark on Cain that anyone finding him should not kill him.
     
  14. Faithofchristian

    Faithofchristian Well-Known Member

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    What was that mark that God put on Cain?
     
  15. Nowhere Man

    Nowhere Man Bompu Zen Man with a little bit of Bushido.

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    I wondered that myself.
     
  16. Deeje

    Deeje Deeje
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    Genesis 5:15 "And the Lord said to him, "Therefore, whoever kills Cain, vengeance will be wrought upon him sevenfold," and the Lord placed a mark on Cain that no one who find him slay him."

    It doesn't say, but it must have been some kind of visible sign so that whoever saw it would not be tempted to avenge Abel's death.
     
  17. Deeje

    Deeje Deeje
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    Genesis ch. 1 says nothing about where Cain got his wife. The latter part of ch. 2 indicates that Adam and his wife were the only humans before the birth of Abel, followed by the birth of Cain. It seems as if they had grown to manhood by the time that jealousy overtook Cain because his offerings were not given with a pure heart like those of his righteous brother.

    Genesis ch. 3 is the sentence passed on Adam and his wife for their disobedience and verse 20 says of Eve that "she had to become the mother of everyone living". So Cain's wife had to be one of his sisters. Adam had sons and daughters, just as Genesis says.

    Chapter 4 is the birth of Adam and Eve's first two children and what happened when Cain lost control of his emotions and murdered his brother. The end of that chapter is the birth of Seth.

    Chapter 5 is the history of Adam and his offspring. All of whom "had sons and daughters". Read it for yourself. The only exception was Noah who had three sons who had taken wives...so at the time of the flood, there were 4 couples who were saved.

    Chapters 6-8 are Noah's days on the ark ....ending with the curse on the ground being lifted and God's promise never to flood the earth again.

    Chapter 9 begins with Noah being given the same mandate that was given to Adam and his wife...."God went on to bless Noah and his sons and to say to them: “Be fruitful and become many and fill the earth."

    All humans then are descendants of Noah and his three sons. Cain's family line was wiped out.
     
  18. Tumah

    Tumah Veteran Member

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    Verse 15. After Cain complains that his punishment is too hard (according to that interpretation of the verse), G-d says "therefore..." The implication is that G-d took what Cain said into consideration and altered the original plan.
     
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  19. Faithofchristian

    Faithofchristian Well-Known Member

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    What is the mark of Cain ?
    In the book of Genesis 4:10-12

    Verse-10--"And he ( God ) said, What have you done? The voice of your brother's blood cries unto Me from the ground.

    Verse-11--"And now are you cursed from the earth, which has opened her mouth to receive your brother's blood from your hand"
    Verse-12--"When you tillest the ground, it shall not from here forward yield unto you her strength; a fugitive and a vagabond shalt you be in the earth"

    The mark that was place on Cain, was that anything that Cain or his descendants would plant in the earth would not grow.

    Read Verse 12 there Lay's the curse and Mark that was put on Cain and his descendants.
    If you follow Cain and Cain's descendants you will find that Cain's descendants are the Kenites in the bible ( scriptures )
    Which are still alive and here on the earth to day.
    It doesn't take much to figure out exactly who Cain's descendants are to day.

    If you go back and read about Cain and Able and find what the reason why Cain killed his brother Able.
    All because Cain wanted to do things his way, the same with Cain's descendants to day, Cain's descendants to day can not accept people worshipping God their way, Cain's descendants like Cain, want to tell others how they are to worship and want to put a disbelief in people that God does not exist.
    It doesn't take much to figure out who Cain's descendants are in to days world if you know what your looking for.

    Cain's descendants even to day, still can't get anything to grow for them out of the earth.
    This is why in the Bible ( scriptures ) the descendants of Cain's the Kenites can not be farmers, for the Kenites can not grow anything, Even to this very day.
     
  20. Faithofchristian

    Faithofchristian Well-Known Member

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    To best answer this question, Where did Cain get his wife from ?

    If you wish to follow the teachings of man's you will not get nothing from God's word.

    Man's will take and twist God's word into making it say as they want it to say.

    But let's, let God's word do the speaking, then we'll find out exactly where Cain got his wife.

    First let's go to the book of Genesis about the 6th day creation.
    Note in chapter 1, Verse's 26-31.

    Notice in Verse 26--"And God said, Let's us make man in our image, after our likeness"

    Now Verse 27--"So God created man in his own image, and the image of God created he him, male and female created he them"

    Notice this was all done on the 6th day, Verse 31--"And the evening and the morning were the 6th day"

    Now notice that on the 7th day God rested from all His work of creation. Genesis 2:2.

    Notice the 7th day stands in between those male and female that were created on the 6th day and those who were created on the day after the 7th day had pass.
    Now after the 7th day had pass, that on the day following the 7th day, God created another male and then after some time had pass, God caused a deep sleep to come on the male that God formed from the dust of the earth and made a female.

    So we have male and female created on the 6th day and then God rested on the
    7th day and then on the day following the 7th day, God formed a male from the dust of the earth.

    You see the 7th day stands there between those that were created on the 6th day and those who were created on the day after the 7th day had pass.

    Male and Female 6th day----7th day God rested------ then on the next day following the 7th day, God created Adam and Eve.

    Cain got his wife from those who were created on the 6th day.

    That after Cain left and went into the country of Nod, this is where Cain got his wife, from those who were created on the 6th day of creation.

    Now it's up to you, You can follow man's teachings or follow God's teachings.

    God's teachings, will tell us that God created a male and female on the 6th day and then after the 7th day had pass,
    That on the day following the 7th day, God created Adam and Eve.
     
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