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Why did God kill David's infant?

Skywalker

Well-Known Member
From a literal persepctive death is not listed as a curse in Genesis. Death is a blessing because without death the earth would over populate.

God would have intended only a limited number of animals and people, if sin never entered the world. Pre-fall ecological crisis? - creation.com

God blesses the living creatures with the purpose of them “filling” their respective domains. Thus, if Adam and Eve never sinned and the creatures filled their domains, clearly they would have had no need to further multiply, but it also means they would have fulfilled that purpose God gave them to fulfil. If they fulfil that purpose God gave them, why think God would let them multiply beyond the fulfilment of that purpose? The onus is not on us to stop ‘filling’; God would’ve stopped it if that aspect of His purpose for us had been fulfilled.
 

halbhh

The wonder and awe of "all things".
I've read the whole Bible through and have never seen anything like that in it. As I said, according to the Bible, every sin leads to death, death is through sin in our flesh. We all die because we have sinned.
Ok, I wonder if you understood what I meant to say, or if I wrote it clearly then. In many places in scripture we see that if someone has more knowledge or awareness, they are held to a higher accountability:

A few of the many examples:

20Then Jesus began to denounce the towns in which most of his miracles had been performed, because they did not repent. 21“Woe to you, Chorazin! Woe to you, Bethsaida! For if the miracles that were performed in you had been performed in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes. 22But I tell you, it will be more bearable for Tyre and Sidon on the day of judgment than for you. 23And you, Capernaum, will you be lifted to the heavens? No, you will go down to Hades. For if the miracles that were performed in you had been performed in Sodom, it would have remained to this day. 24But I tell you that it will be more bearable for Sodom on the day of judgment than for you.”
Matthew 11 NIV

Hmmm...I think I'll stop right here. It's already enough, for a believer. Quoting another 3 or 10 passages would not make it more clear I think. It's in the Old Testament too. We should not argue.

 

firedragon

Veteran Member
Some Jews claim that God does not need a sin offering, and that the sin offerings God required in the OT are not important. According to them, it is enough just to ask for forgiveness, but when David sinned, his infant had to die, David asked for forgiveness and fasted, he suffered a lot, but God killed his infant anyway. How do these Jews explain this? Why didn't God forgive him in such a way that his infant did not have to die? In Job we see the sin offerings, when the three friends lied about God, God said to them, "Sacrifice animals for yourselves so I won't do anything bad to you!" And don't forget, Job lived before Moses, so the sin offerings were already demanded by God before the Torah! Why does someone have to die for sin?

Genesis 4:6-7 YLT
And Jehovah saith unto Cain, `Why hast thou displeasure? and why hath thy countenance fallen? Is there not, if thou dost well, acceptance? and if thou dost not well, at the opening a sin-offering is crouching, and unto thee its desire, and thou rulest over it.'

Does that verse say "sin offering"? Or does it just say "sin"?
 

Teritos

Active Member
Ok, I wonder if you understood what I meant to say, or if I wrote it clearly then. In many places in scripture we see that if someone has more knowledge or awareness, they are held to a higher accountability:

A few of the many examples:

20Then Jesus began to denounce the towns in which most of his miracles had been performed, because they did not repent. 21“Woe to you, Chorazin! Woe to you, Bethsaida! For if the miracles that were performed in you had been performed in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes. 22But I tell you, it will be more bearable for Tyre and Sidon on the day of judgment than for you. 23And you, Capernaum, will you be lifted to the heavens? No, you will go down to Hades. For if the miracles that were performed in you had been performed in Sodom, it would have remained to this day. 24But I tell you that it will be more bearable for Sodom on the day of judgment than for you.”
Matthew 11 NIV

Hmmm...I think I'll stop right here. It's already enough, for a believer. Quoting another 3 or 10 passages would not make it more clear I think. It's in the Old Testament too. We should not argue.
Tyre and Sidon are already destroyed, so how will it be more bearable for them on the "Day of Judgment" if they no longer exist? We should not take Jesus' words literally.
It still does not change the fact that we are all under the death penalty according to the Bible. Everyone dies because all have sinned, no one is punished more severely.
Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin is death.
 

firedragon

Veteran Member
The Hebrew word means sin offering. And contextually, it is also the correct translation.

No. The Hebrew word can be meant a sin offering based on the context, but this verse in Genesis does not give that context.

Nevertheless, God killing David's son in your eyes is a justification for a sacrificial lamb or something? Is that your theological argument?

Just a clarification.
 

halbhh

The wonder and awe of "all things".
Tyre and Sidon are already destroyed, so how will it be more bearable for them on the "Day of Judgment" if they no longer exist? We should not take Jesus' words literally.
It still does not change the fact that we are all under the death penalty according to the Bible. Everyone dies because all have sinned, no one is punished more severely.
Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin is death.

Tyre and Sidon are already destroyed, so how will it be more bearable for them on the "Day of Judgment" if they no longer exist?
-- In that the people (from all cities/places/nations of course) will face that Day of Judgment after this life. So, the characteristic sins of Sodom though great were less severe than those of Capernaum, Chorazin, Bethsaida, in that -- as Christ says plainly -- Sodom would have repented if they had seen these miracles He had done, but many in Capernaum, Chorazin, and Bethsaida did not repent even after actually witnessing the fact of His miracles. Therefore (for that very reason) it will be easier on the Day of Judgment for those from Sodom (on average) than from those of Capernaum, Chorazin, and Bethsaida, He says.
 
We can all quote the Bible but I wonder how much some of the stories are all meant to be taken literally like the book of Job. I think it’s quite clear in the current world people suffer regardless of faith or because of purposely nasty decisions they make. A 29 year old model ate something with an allergy and can only blink for the rest of her life. Did she deserve that - probably not? Just one way of looking at things.
 

Skywalker

Well-Known Member
This topic came up about a year ago in the Judaism-Dir. There are (as usual) multiple different explanations. The perspective which makes most sense to me is:

The child died because the the death of Uriah on the Ammonite sword at the front of the battle lines was extremely damaging to God's reputation. The nature of the infraction was the reason for the extreme punishment.

I believe that God judging David by taking his infant was poetic justice. David killed Uriah to cover up for both Bathsheba and himself, and it would have been strange if God allowed David to remarry Bathsheba without any consequences.
 

1213

Well-Known Member
...In Job we see the sin offerings, when the three friends lied about God, God said to them, "Sacrifice animals for yourselves so I won't do anything bad to you!" ...

I didn’t find that part from the Bible. Could you please show where is that said in the Bible?
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
Some Jews claim that God does not need a sin offering, and that the sin offerings God required in the OT are not important. According to them, it is enough just to ask for forgiveness, but when David sinned, his infant had to die, David asked for forgiveness and fasted, he suffered a lot, but God killed his infant anyway. How do these Jews explain this? Why didn't God forgive him in such a way that his infant did not have to die? In Job we see the sin offerings, when the three friends lied about God, God said to them, "Sacrifice animals for yourselves so I won't do anything bad to you!" And don't forget, Job lived before Moses, so the sin offerings were already demanded by God before the Torah! Why does someone have to die for sin?
Genesis 4:6-7 YLT
And Jehovah saith unto Cain, `Why hast thou displeasure? and why hath thy countenance fallen? Is there not, if thou dost well, acceptance? and if thou dost not well, at the opening a sin-offering is crouching, and unto thee its desire, and thou rulest over it.'

First of all, I find under the Constitution of the Mosaic Law if God did Not step in human judges would have executed both David and Bath-sheba for adultery. Thus their unborn would have also died with them.
David and Bath-sheba were spared, but calamity upon their household was Not spared - 2 Samuel 12:1-12.
In Scripture we find David and Bath-sheba will have a resurrection so that means so will their first born be resurrected. Because of the Resurrection Hope 'enemy death' is temporary until Resurrection Day: meaning Jesus' coming Millennium-long Day of governing over Earth for a thousand years. - 1 Corinthians 15:26; Isaiah 25:8
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
God would have intended only a limited number of animals and people, if sin never entered the world. Pre-fall ecological crisis? - creation.com
Yes, agree because people were only to reproduce until Earth was full, Earth was populated - see Genesis 1:28.
In other words, reproduction would cease once Earth was full, Earth was populated.
Who knows, after that other planets could take up where this planet left off, so to speak.
 

Skywalker

Well-Known Member
First of all, I find under the Constitution of the Mosaic Law if God did Not step in human judges would have executed both David and Bath-sheba for adultery. Thus their unborn would have also died with them.
David and Bath-sheba were spared, but calamity upon their household was Not spared - 2 Samuel 12:1-12.
In Scripture we find David and Bath-sheba will have a resurrection so that means so will their first born be resurrected. Because of the Resurrection Hope 'enemy death' is temporary until Resurrection Day: meaning Jesus' coming Millennium-long Day of governing over Earth for a thousand years. - 1 Corinthians 15:26; Isaiah 25:8

Why would Bathsheba have been executed? She was at the mercy of two men. If she disobeyed David, she would have been executed. If her husband knew of her crime, he would have had her executed, even though she would have died for being loyal to him and she was in a lose lose situation. I believe that her son died because even though she was in a lose lose situation, she still had to deal with the consequences of the law.
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
I didn’t find that part from the Bible. Could you please show where is that said in the Bible?
Try Job 42:7-8
Seems that God required a sizeable sacrifice from those three; could be to impress upon their minds just how great the gravity of their sin was. They were at the point of blaspheming God. - Job 4:18-19; Job 22:2-3.
Having to present to Job their costly offerings would have been very humbling for them for what they did to Job.
Job did Not to gloat over them, but Job prayed for them - Job 42:10-17.
Boils down to: if we forgive those who sin against us we can have our sins forgiven - Matthew 6:12
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
Why would Bathsheba have been executed? She was at the mercy of two men. If she disobeyed David, she would have been executed. If her husband knew of her crime, he would have had her executed, even though she would have died for being loyal to him and she was in a lose lose situation. I believe that her son died because even though she was in a lose lose situation, she still had to deal with the consequences of the law.
Under the Law she should have screamed out loud. We find No record of that happening.
David and Bath-sheba dealt with the consequences according to what is written at 2 Samuel 12:1-12.
Nothing would be secret for what they did, and yes, there would be consequences.
 

Skywalker

Well-Known Member
Under the Law she should have screamed out loud. We find No record of that happening.
David and Bath-sheba dealt with the consequences according to what is written at 2 Samuel 12:1-12.
Nothing would be secret for what they did, and yes, there would be consequences.

Why did she have such drastic consequences if no matter what she did she would have been a criminal?
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
We can all quote the Bible but I wonder how much some of the stories are all meant to be taken literally like the book of Job. I think it’s quite clear in the current world people suffer regardless of faith or because of purposely nasty decisions they make.............
Yes, Jeremiah 10:23 lets us know it is Not up to man to direct his step.
So, nasty decisions can be because of Not applying Bible standards, principles, etc.
This is why God had Jesus step in to instruct us on how to avoid needless suffering.

Suffering is connected to Satan's challenge to Job - Job 2:4-5
By way of extension Satan challenges all of us.
'Touch our 'flesh...' ( loose physical health ) and we would Not serve God under adverse conditions.
Both Job and Jesus under very adverse conditions proved Satan a liar and so can we.
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
Why did she have such drastic consequences if no matter what she did she would have been a criminal?
If she would have 'screamed out loud' she would have been considered as innocent. - Deuteronomy 22:24-25.
So, yes she had a choice in the matter. There is No record of her screaming out for help.
 
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