1. Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Featured Why did God kill David's infant?

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by Teritos, Apr 16, 2021.

  1. Skywalker

    Skywalker Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2015
    Messages:
    6,656
    Ratings:
    +338
    Religion:
    Christian
    God would have intended only a limited number of animals and people, if sin never entered the world. Pre-fall ecological crisis? - creation.com

     
  2. halbhh

    halbhh The wonder and awe of "all things".

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2019
    Messages:
    1,874
    Ratings:
    +763
    Religion:
    Rescued of Jesus the Christ
    Ok, I wonder if you understood what I meant to say, or if I wrote it clearly then. In many places in scripture we see that if someone has more knowledge or awareness, they are held to a higher accountability:

    A few of the many examples:

    20Then Jesus began to denounce the towns in which most of his miracles had been performed, because they did not repent. 21“Woe to you, Chorazin! Woe to you, Bethsaida! For if the miracles that were performed in you had been performed in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes. 22But I tell you, it will be more bearable for Tyre and Sidon on the day of judgment than for you. 23And you, Capernaum, will you be lifted to the heavens? No, you will go down to Hades. For if the miracles that were performed in you had been performed in Sodom, it would have remained to this day. 24But I tell you that it will be more bearable for Sodom on the day of judgment than for you.”
    Matthew 11 NIV

    Hmmm...I think I'll stop right here. It's already enough, for a believer. Quoting another 3 or 10 passages would not make it more clear I think. It's in the Old Testament too. We should not argue.

     
  3. firedragon

    firedragon Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2013
    Messages:
    11,776
    Ratings:
    +3,160
    Does that verse say "sin offering"? Or does it just say "sin"?
     
  4. Teritos

    Teritos Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2021
    Messages:
    498
    Ratings:
    +135
    Religion:
    Christian
    Tyre and Sidon are already destroyed, so how will it be more bearable for them on the "Day of Judgment" if they no longer exist? We should not take Jesus' words literally.
    It still does not change the fact that we are all under the death penalty according to the Bible. Everyone dies because all have sinned, no one is punished more severely.
    Romans 6:23
    For the wages of sin is death.
     
  5. Teritos

    Teritos Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2021
    Messages:
    498
    Ratings:
    +135
    Religion:
    Christian
    The Hebrew word means sin offering. And contextually, it is also the correct translation.
     
  6. Teritos

    Teritos Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2021
    Messages:
    498
    Ratings:
    +135
    Religion:
    Christian
    Let me guess, you got that from the Talmud?
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
  7. firedragon

    firedragon Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2013
    Messages:
    11,776
    Ratings:
    +3,160
    No. The Hebrew word can be meant a sin offering based on the context, but this verse in Genesis does not give that context.

    Nevertheless, God killing David's son in your eyes is a justification for a sacrificial lamb or something? Is that your theological argument?

    Just a clarification.
     
  8. halbhh

    halbhh The wonder and awe of "all things".

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2019
    Messages:
    1,874
    Ratings:
    +763
    Religion:
    Rescued of Jesus the Christ
    Tyre and Sidon are already destroyed, so how will it be more bearable for them on the "Day of Judgment" if they no longer exist?
    -- In that the people (from all cities/places/nations of course) will face that Day of Judgment after this life. So, the characteristic sins of Sodom though great were less severe than those of Capernaum, Chorazin, Bethsaida, in that -- as Christ says plainly -- Sodom would have repented if they had seen these miracles He had done, but many in Capernaum, Chorazin, and Bethsaida did not repent even after actually witnessing the fact of His miracles. Therefore (for that very reason) it will be easier on the Day of Judgment for those from Sodom (on average) than from those of Capernaum, Chorazin, and Bethsaida, He says.
     
  9. dybmh

    dybmh Terminal Optimist
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2019
    Messages:
    8,975
    Ratings:
    +6,107
    Religion:
    Judaism
    Nope, strictly from the text :)
     
  10. thefloatingsting

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2021
    Messages:
    38
    Ratings:
    +13
    We can all quote the Bible but I wonder how much some of the stories are all meant to be taken literally like the book of Job. I think it’s quite clear in the current world people suffer regardless of faith or because of purposely nasty decisions they make. A 29 year old model ate something with an allergy and can only blink for the rest of her life. Did she deserve that - probably not? Just one way of looking at things.
     
  11. Skywalker

    Skywalker Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2015
    Messages:
    6,656
    Ratings:
    +338
    Religion:
    Christian
    I believe that God judging David by taking his infant was poetic justice. David killed Uriah to cover up for both Bathsheba and himself, and it would have been strange if God allowed David to remarry Bathsheba without any consequences.
     
  12. 1213

    1213 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2017
    Messages:
    3,260
    Ratings:
    +644
    Religion:
    Disciple of Jesus
    I didn’t find that part from the Bible. Could you please show where is that said in the Bible?
     
  13. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2009
    Messages:
    14,555
    Ratings:
    +2,414
    First of all, I find under the Constitution of the Mosaic Law if God did Not step in human judges would have executed both David and Bath-sheba for adultery. Thus their unborn would have also died with them.
    David and Bath-sheba were spared, but calamity upon their household was Not spared - 2 Samuel 12:1-12.
    In Scripture we find David and Bath-sheba will have a resurrection so that means so will their first born be resurrected. Because of the Resurrection Hope 'enemy death' is temporary until Resurrection Day: meaning Jesus' coming Millennium-long Day of governing over Earth for a thousand years. - 1 Corinthians 15:26; Isaiah 25:8
     
  14. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2009
    Messages:
    14,555
    Ratings:
    +2,414
    Yes, agree because people were only to reproduce until Earth was full, Earth was populated - see Genesis 1:28.
    In other words, reproduction would cease once Earth was full, Earth was populated.
    Who knows, after that other planets could take up where this planet left off, so to speak.
     
  15. Skywalker

    Skywalker Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2015
    Messages:
    6,656
    Ratings:
    +338
    Religion:
    Christian
    Why would Bathsheba have been executed? She was at the mercy of two men. If she disobeyed David, she would have been executed. If her husband knew of her crime, he would have had her executed, even though she would have died for being loyal to him and she was in a lose lose situation. I believe that her son died because even though she was in a lose lose situation, she still had to deal with the consequences of the law.
     
  16. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2009
    Messages:
    14,555
    Ratings:
    +2,414
    Try Job 42:7-8
    Seems that God required a sizeable sacrifice from those three; could be to impress upon their minds just how great the gravity of their sin was. They were at the point of blaspheming God. - Job 4:18-19; Job 22:2-3.
    Having to present to Job their costly offerings would have been very humbling for them for what they did to Job.
    Job did Not to gloat over them, but Job prayed for them - Job 42:10-16.
    Boils down to: if we forgive those who sin against us we can have our sins forgiven - Matthew 6:12
     
  17. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2009
    Messages:
    14,555
    Ratings:
    +2,414
    Under the Law she should have screamed out loud. We find No record of that happening.
    David and Bath-sheba dealt with the consequences according to what is written at 2 Samuel 12:1-12.
    Nothing would be secret for what they did, and yes, there would be consequences.
     
  18. Skywalker

    Skywalker Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2015
    Messages:
    6,656
    Ratings:
    +338
    Religion:
    Christian
    Why did she have such drastic consequences if no matter what she did she would have been a criminal?
     
  19. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2009
    Messages:
    14,555
    Ratings:
    +2,414
    Yes, Jeremiah 10:23 lets us know it is Not up to man to direct his step.
    So, nasty decisions can be because of Not applying Bible standards, principles, etc.
    This is why God had Jesus step in to instruct us on how to avoid needless suffering.

    Suffering is connected to Satan's challenge to Job - Job 2:4-5
    By way of extension Satan challenges all of us.
    'Touch our 'flesh...' ( loose physical health ) and we would Not serve God under adverse conditions.
    Both Job and Jesus under very adverse conditions proved Satan a liar and so can we.
     
  20. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2009
    Messages:
    14,555
    Ratings:
    +2,414
    If she would have 'screamed out loud' she would have been considered as innocent. - Deuteronomy 22:24-25.
    So, yes she had a choice in the matter. There is No record of her screaming out for help.
     
Loading...