Why did God Create us??

[Metempsychosis]

I would like know why god creates souls and puts them into the world.Why is the all powerful God allowing souls to get into reincarnation?How were we first seperated from God?Some say soul is always distinct entity which is not created by God.Then why did the soul got associated with Body,mind etc...Please provide your views and explain how the scriptures support them.


Note:
But this is question a should not be answered by advaitins,buddhist ,and other non-dualists.They say all this is maya and there is no creation etc.Which I already know.


Thanks.

 

[Madhuri]

I would like know why god creates souls and puts them into the world.Why is the all powerful God allowing souls to get into reincarnation?How were we first seperated from God?Some say soul is always distinct entity which is not created by God.Then why did the soul got associated with Body,mind etc...Please provide your views and explain how the scriptures support them.

My belief is that the souls are an eternal aspect of God. They never were created and can never be destroyed. One aspect of the Lord is his material potency. I think that this is an eternal aspect and the souls within the material are representative of God in this aspect. We just are as everything that is just is.

Well, you know I've explained the concept of the Viraj in a different thread. The main reference I can find is in the Brihadaranyaka Upanishad. It starts with:

"In the beginning, this universe was the self (Viraj) alone, in the shape of a person."

It goes on to describe in what I strongly believe is an allegorical story, the creation of the universe. It says things like:

"He (Viraj) realized: "Indeed, I am the creation, for I produced all this." Therefore He became the creation. He who knows this becomes a creator in this creation of Viraj."

To be honest though I am finding it very difficult to find proper references online at the moment. There are writings about Prakriti, who is God as material nature. He manifests for the sake of the souls (us).

We know that the souls are breathed into and out of Maha Vishu in the beginning of creation and during the dissolution. This seems (to me) to symbolise our oneness with the divine.

There are BG quotes such as:

"I am the Soul, O, Arjuna. I am the Soul which exists in the heart of all beings; and I am the beginning and the middle, and also the end of existing things".

I'm somewhat frustrated...there are many references to the soul in scripture but I'm having bad luck. Let me return to this later.

 

[Sunstone]

God created humans out of a deep need for someone to make burnt offerings to him.

 

[John D]

I would like know why god creates souls and puts them into the world.Why is the all powerful God allowing souls to get into reincarnation?How were we first seperated from God?Some say soul is always distinct entity which is not created by God.Then why did the soul got associated with Body,mind etc...Please provide your views and explain how the scriptures support them.


Note:
But this is question a should not be answered by advaitins,buddhist ,and other non-dualists.They say all this is maya and there is no creation etc.Which I already know.


Thanks.

I don't know why, but I am glad He did. Now we get the oppertunity to learn,grow and be.
I don't believe in reincarnation ( not interested in debate ). My believe is that we live our live in a womb (this world) and when we die, we are born.

 

[Metempsychosis]

I'm somewhat frustrated...there are many references to the soul in scripture but I'm having bad luck. Let me return to this later.

I am extremely frustrated,as I am yet to know why we were created.I never get any logical anwser to this question.:faint:

 

[Satsangi]

I am extremely frustrated,as yet to know why we were created.I never get any logical anwser to this question.:faint:

Friend Antireligion,

I will try to answer your question; the answer may not be "logical", but has support of the Shashtras.

The Jivas were not created; they are eternal. The reincarnation cycle and the creation destruction cycle is like a circle- it has no beginning and no end - it is not like a straight line which has a beginning and an end. Similarly the Jivas since eternity always carried with them the baggage of Karmas (Prarabdha, Sanchita and Kriyamaan). The Prarabdha Karma and the Vasna (strong metrial desires) form the causal body of the Jivas which is responsible for rebirths. God alone is the sole decision maker on the fruits of a particular Karma.

The reason for the whole Creation of Universe and the rebirths of the Jivas are (1) the Jivas can fulfill their Vasna and ultimately while fulfilling it, develop a strong detachment (Vairagya) (2) the Jivas then start the journey to fulfill the ultimate goal of their rebirth- which is liberation by the Jnana of God.

Regards,

 

[Metempsychosis]

Friend Antireligion,

I will try to answer your question; the answer may not be "logical", but has support of the Shashtras.

The Jivas were not created; they are eternal. The reincarnation cycle and the creation destruction cycle is like a circle- it has no beginning and no end - it is not like a straight line which has a beginning and an end. Similarly the Jivas since eternity always carried with them the baggage of Karmas (Prarabdha, Sanchita and Kriyamaan).

Does not samsara end with Moksha?Do enlightened people again get reincarnated (without their consent)?How did Jivas get associated with Vasanas and why.

Thanks.

I don't know why, but I am glad He did. Now we get the oppertunity to learn,grow and be.

But not for all .Think of these kids,

 

[Satsangi]

Does not samsara end with Moksha?Do enlightened people again get reincarnated (without their consent)?How did Jivas get associated with Vasanas and why.

For that particular Jiva who has attained Moksha, the Samsara ends. But they do reincarnate on their own free will or as per the will of God. For these Muktas, will of God is their own will.

There always was a causal body of Vasna for the Jiva eternally; there was no beginning of association; it was always associated with it- just like fire and heat. The Jivas were NOT created; they are as eternal as Parmatma Himself. There was no starting point, eternally it is a full "circle" only and not a straight line.

The question that you are asking is the same that arose in my mind few years ago- why and from where did my Chaitanya (Atma) get these Vasanas at time zero? In fact, I was little angry that my Chaitanya was contaminated by Him purposefully by Him giving me this "credit" of Vasanas which was responsible for my rebirths through 84 lakh creatures till now.

Above is the answer I found. He is not responsible for giving me those Vasanas. But eternally, this is who I was and He is just helping me realize my true Self and Him by giving this birth.

Regards,

 

[DavyCrocket2003]

I would like know why god creates souls and puts them into the world.Why is the all powerful God allowing souls to get into reincarnation?How were we first seperated from God?Some say soul is always distinct entity which is not created by God.Then why did the soul got associated with Body,mind etc...Please provide your views and explain how the scriptures support them.

Thanks.

Good topic question. I believe that at our core, we are eternal. There is some spark of intelligence or will that has always existed. We have bodies, we are not bodies. We have spirits, we are not even spirits. We have taken them on true, but we were not always humans (referring to the species Homo sapiens) and we were not always spirits. There is a part of us, no matter how minute, that is "co-eternal" with God. He did not create that part of us, for it has always existed. What God has done is help us to progress and grow. He isn't forcing us into being or anything. He is simply opening a path for us to raise ourselves to an ever more glorious existence if we so choose. The reason our soul is now associated with a body is because we wanted to receive a body. Before we came here, God helped us progress as spirits as much as we could. To continue our development required a next step- receiving a physical body. God has a physical body and he wanted to allow us to receive one too. There was a plan provided for us to come to earth for this purpose. Those who wanted the opportunity and accepted the plan are here on the earth now (or were or will be). A physical body is something new for us. It is often a conflict. Our human bodies want to do what instinct, desire, and emotion tells it too. The struggle is to maintain control over all of these human forces. We must train our bodies to respond to our will. The goal is to ultimately reach a state where we are in complete harmony with ourselves. So when people say that we are just animals, it is only part true. We are part animal. But it is a shame for us to let ourselves be just an intelligent animal when our potential is infinitely more than that.

 

[Madhuri]

Ok, references to the Viraj River arose in the line of Lord Caitanya and the Goswamis. The Viraj River is the impersonal manifestation of Maha Vishnu. References can be found in the Sri Brihat Bhagavatamritam by Srila Sanatan Goswami, Srila Sridhara Maharaja's Subjective Evolution of Consciousness, Srila Narayan Maharaja's Going Beyond Vaikuntha and Srii Caitanya Caritamrita where Lord Caitanya instructs Sanatan Goswami in the Madhya Lila.

Basic idea is that we are part of the marginal potency of God. This is eternal, we were never created. We just are. The Viraj River refers to a void that exists forming a border or shore line between the Brahman and the material world (Remembering that in this line Brahman is not considered to be the Whole but rather an aspect of God). At the beginning of each universal creation souls come out from the Viraj and into the material universe. Some will remain there and others will actually enter the spiritual realm. This has to do with our innate desires or tendencies (or something).

I would absolutely love to provide quotes but the internet is devoid and I have none of the above scriptures in my possession. I will in a few weeks though, when I return home.

Anyway, this is my Gaudiya Vaishnava understanding and may/will differ from other understandings.

 

[DavyCrocket2003]

Woof!8| Who's the guy writing the novels without any paragraphs or indents to break up the monotony?!

 

[Madhuri]

Tell me... What is your real reason for asking? I don't bother even trying to answer questions of this sort from "extremely frustrated" people who are label themselves as being "anti-religion." Anybody theist who has been posting for as long as I have knows that your "extreme frustration" stems from not being able to find somebody to argue with than it is over a real interest in getting a "logical answer." You know as well as I do that there is no answer in the world you'd consider "logical."

Hi Kat,
I wouldn't get too upset with Anti here who is a spiritualist and I expect is simply unfavourable to institutions of religion rather than philosophies or devotional paths per se'. I can in fact relate to his frustration. Wouldn't it be nice to really know some of the universe's great mysteries? I certainly would. I cannot comment on your religion or if it provides straight answers but in Hinduism (this is the DIR) there are so many scriptures and so many interpretations that it can be difficult to really have a proper answer or understanding. I expect that Anti is frustrated because he is a follower of a particular Hindu path but has yet to realise the nature of his self and God. But then, neither has any of us! So for this I can relate.

 

[DavyCrocket2003]

Oh My Gosh! I'm so sorry! The DIR! Ignore my posts please!
Wow, I should just go to bed... :sorry1:

 

[Metempsychosis]

Tell me...

Look is here.

What is your real reason for asking? I don't bother even trying to answer questions of this sort from "extremely frustrated" people who are label themselves as being "anti-religion."

Suddenly anti-religion remembers this:
"
Light and Darkness, life and death, right and left,religion and anti-religion are brothers of one another. They are inseparable. Because of this neither are the good good, nor evil evil, nor is life life, nor death death. For this reason each one will dissolve into its earliest origin. But those who are exalted above the world are indissoluble, eternal. Names given to the worldly are very deceptive, for they divert our thoughts from what is correct to what is incorrect. When you make the two into one, and when you make the inner like the outer and the outer like the inner, and the upper like the lower, and when you make male and female into a single one, so that the male will not be male nor the female be female, when you make eyes in place of an eye, a hand in place of a hand, a foot in place of a foot, an image in place of an image, then you will enter ."

Anybody theist who has been posting for as long as I have knows that your "extreme frustration" stems from not being able to find somebody to argue with than it is over a real interest in getting a "logical answer."

I have a point here.Let me tell..Jainism and Buddhism and many schools in Hinduism do not require belief in creator god i.e they are non-theistic.(** Sees a quote from Gandhi MEOW***)

You know as well as I do that there is no answer in the world you'd consider "logical."

Yes this is true from anekantavada(moral relativism) theory .:angel2:

 

[Metempsychosis]

The question that you are asking is the same that arose in my mind few years ago- why and from where did my Chaitanya (Atma) get these Vasanas at time zero? In fact, I was little angry that my Chaitanya was contaminated by Him purposefully by Him giving me this "credit" of Vasanas which was responsible for my rebirths through 84 lakh creatures till now.

Above is the answer I found. He is not responsible for giving me those Vasanas. But eternally, this is who I was and He is just helping me realize my true Self and Him by giving this birth.

Regards,

I want to know why different vasanas for different people.I have doubt regarding all-mightiness of God,because He cannot stop reincarnation.What do you say? I know these are tricky questions.

 

[Metempsychosis]

At the beginning of each universal creation souls come out from the Viraj and into the material universe. Some will remain there and others will actually enter the spiritual realm. This has to do with our innate desires or tendencies (or something).

Advaita vedanta posits a similar theory,wherein a thought creates waves in consciousness which then forms the souls..This is quite logical ,but still why is this happening....Why cant god use all his powers to stop these marginal potencies from moving out....

Thanks.

 

[Madhuri]

Advaita vedanta posits a similar theory,wherein a thought creates waves in consciousness which then forms the souls..This is quite logical ,but still why is this happening....Why cant god use all his powers to stop these marginal potencies from moving out....

Thanks.

I'd love to know that too! I have heard the idea that the material universe is the playing field whereupon God explores himself...through all of us I guess. I cannot remember where that idea is from so don't take it to heart...

I like existing in a conscious state, I'd just rather exist in a nicer reality without maya. I wouldn't mind some inherent mystic powers either

 

[Metempsychosis]

I'd love to know that too! I have heard the idea that the material universe is the playing field whereupon God explores himself...through all of us I guess. I cannot remember where that idea is from so don't take it to heart...

I like existing in a conscious state, I'd just rather exist in a nicer reality without maya. I wouldn't mind some inherent mystic powers either

That is in Shaivism.Wherein Shiva dances through the creation,in which shiva himelf becomes both creator and creation.But still I dont why god needs to play with himself and with our lives...This is called Shiva Thandava i think,depicted in the from of Nataraja...You should have heard the Shrota(song) on this..While I agree with monistic concept I feel dancing part is too funny...BTW..I would also like to know how this maya thingy started...

 

[rusra02]

I would like know why god creates souls and puts them into the world.Why is the all powerful God allowing souls to get into reincarnation?How were we first seperated from God?Some say soul is always distinct entity which is not created by God.Then why did the soul got associated with Body,mind etc...Please provide your views and explain how the scriptures support them.


Note:
But this is question a should not be answered by advaitins,buddhist ,and other non-dualists.They say all this is maya and there is no creation etc.Which I already know.


Thanks.

You asked several questions in your post.
1. Why did God create us? The Bible answers that questions clearly. "God is Love" says 1 John 4:8. He is the source of life, and wants to share the gift of life.
2. How were we first separated from God? Genesis chapter 3.
3. (paraphrasing) What is the soul?
“Let the waters swarm forth a swarm of living souls,” God commanded. On the next creative day, God said: “Let the earth put forth living souls according to their kinds, domestic animal and moving animal and wild beast of the earth according to its kind.” (Genesis 1:20, 24) Therefore, all living creatures—human or animal—are souls.
Genesis 2:7 says "And Jehovah God proceeded to form the man out of dust from the ground and to blow into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man came to be a living soul." Note that Adam did not come to have a living soul, he came to be a living soul.
There is no entity separate from the body. Your soul is you. The soul can and does die. (Ezekiel 18:4). Soul can also refer to the life one has as a soul (Genesis 35:18),
Thus reincarnation, a soul's existence after death, hellfire, purgatory are all false teachings. The hope for the dead is resurrection, not an immortal soul.

 

[Metempsychosis]

Thus reincarnation, a soul's existence after death, hellfire, purgatory are all false teachings. The hope for the dead is resurrection, not an immortal soul.

Another one.