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"Why Did God Create Mankind if He Knew Man Would Sin?"

Skwim

Veteran Member
Wandering around Answers in Genesis again I came across the question above. Not unexpectedly, AiG's reply tiptoed around the question and never did address it. So, I'm asking you, Christians who regard god as omniscient, why do you think god created mankind if he knew man would sin"?

The only reasonable answer I can come up with is that he did know, and wanted it that way. God created mankind as a form of entertainment. It's flaws and all adding to the drama.

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Skwim

Veteran Member
To say "he (God) did know"....how is that reasonable to you?
Because it's the only reason I can think of that would prompt an omniscient god to allow his creation to sin. If you have a better answer, which I suspect you don't, please share. Otherwise I'll assume you go along with me.

.
 

Oeste

Well-Known Member
The only reasonable answer I can come up with is that he did know, and wanted it that way. God created mankind as a form of entertainment. It's flaws and all adding to the drama.

To say "he (God) did know"....how is that reasonable to you

Because it's the only reason I can think of that would prompt an omniscient god to allow his creation to sin. If you have a better answer, which I suspect you don't, please share. Otherwise I'll assume you go along with me.


It's a cynical but reasonable conclusion.

God knew we would sin and that His creation, through free will, would become defective. So why would He create us anyway?

Ask any mother who knows her baby will be born defective but refuses to even consider an abortion. God decided to have us because He loved us.

He also knows the outcome, so apparently we're well worth the effort. :)
 

Shushersbedamned

Well-Known Member
Because it's the only reason I can think of that would prompt an omniscient god to allow his creation to sin. If you have a better answer, which I suspect you don't, please share. Otherwise I'll assume you go along with me.

.
How did god become omniscient suddenly?
 

Skwim

Veteran Member
It's a cynical but reasonable conclusion.

God knew we would sin and that His creation, through free will, would become defective. So why would He create us anyway?

Ask any mother who knows her baby will be born defective but refuses to even consider an abortion. God decided to have us because He loved us.

He also knows the outcome, so apparently we're well worth the effort. :)
So, what would you think of a woman who knows that every child she conceives will be born with a severe, crippling defect, yet goes ahead and has seven such children? Think she's doing the kids any favor? Think she should have as many such kids as possible? How about if she had the option to conceive those children without this defect? Think she should opt to have the defective one's instead?

.

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osgart

Nothing my eye, Something for sure
Well god so loved the world, that he gave his only son that whosoever believe on him shall have eternal life. So according to christianity god wanted to save everyone from their own sin.

So love is the answer. God will redeem any that come to him.

Flip side is those whom willfully reject god, and willfully wholeheartedly and eternally reject god in their hearts and gods nature of holiness, they must suffer eternal hell for what they chose to become. So the evil they become is so evil that they will never ever choose gods way, thus the eternal hell.

God only desires holiness and righteousness of heart. Holiness being those of compassion for the compassionate, merciful toward sinners, love of justice, upright of heart.

God chose to have mercy on the sinner out of love. Since we are all sinners, gods plan is to redeem everyone. So god gave every human an eternal heart choice, forever repent, or no.

In the old testament, and new testament, and today mankind is only saved by their faith in god. God knows the hearts of all, and all must live to make their own forever choice. God knows when a forever choice of heart is made.

Anyways i am not christian, but that is the christian answer. How did i do?

I think of it as a story with a lesson. The lesson is to take responsibility for who you are and own up and reckon with it. Choose life and not evil.
 
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Oeste

Well-Known Member
So, what would you think of a woman who knows that every child she conceives will be born with a severe, crippling defect, yet goes ahead and has seven such children?

It would be up to the mother. If she wants children she will have to accept the defect.

Think she's doing the kids any favor?

Good question to ask any kid with a defect.

Think she should have as many such kids as possible?

How many kids one should have is up to the parents. I think they should make responsible choices.

How about if she had a choice to conceive those children without this defect? Think she should opt to have the defective one's instead?

We all have "defects".

I suspect we may have designer babies shortly where a child that will never run a 4 minute mile, won't grow to be at least 6 feet tall and fails to score an IQ greater than 148 will be deemed "defective". Under such a scenario most of us would be aborted.
 

Stevicus

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
Wandering around Answers in Genesis again I came across the question above. Not unexpectedly, AiG's reply tiptoed around the question and never did address it. So, I'm asking you, Christians who regard god as omniscient, why do you think god created mankind if he knew man would sin"?

The only reasonable answer I can come up with is that he did know, and wanted it that way. God created mankind as a form of entertainment. It's flaws and all adding to the drama.

.

It's just like that song by Billy Joel, "Only The Good Die Young":

"I'd rather laugh with the sinners than cry with the saints
The sinners are much more fun"


Maybe God feels the same way.
 

Cateau

Giovanni Pico & Della Barba Devotee
Why don't you just ask Him, pray on it...not that it will lead you to write the nxt "conversations with god" best seller or anything lol, or that you should believe any o u t s i d e word of advice without testing "they" who give it. But religion is not just about playing by the book, it's a personal relationship and some answers are only found by seeking the truth for yourself in your own studying, testing, and trying b/c some say this and some say that, you can only be sure by doing it yourself.....otherwise why bother being interested in it.
 

Hockeycowboy

Witness for Jehovah
Premium Member
Because it's the only reason I can think of that would prompt an omniscient god to allow his creation to sin. If you have a better answer, which I suspect you don't, please share. Otherwise I'll assume you go along with me.

.
Holding to a view that God has predestined everything, although popular among some professed Christians like Calvinists, does not portray a loving God....actually it makes Him look evil, as it ultimately leads to blaming Him for all the badness that's ever happened. (I think that's your goal, isn't it Skwim?)

But the Bible portrays* God's power of foreknowledge as selective, when it comes to His intelligent creation, i.e., humans and angels.)
That fits with His endowing His intelligent creation with free will.

Selective exercise of foreknowledge. The alternative to predestinarianism, the selective or discretionary exercise of God’s powers of foreknowledge, would have to harmonize with God’s own righteous standards and be consistent with what he reveals of himself in his Word. In contrast with the theory of predestinarianism, a number of texts point to an examination by God of a situation then current and a decision made on the basis of such examination.

* Thus, at Genesis 11:5-8 God is described as directing his attention earthward, surveying the situation at Babel, and, at that time, determining the action to be taken to break up the unrighteous project there. After wickedness developed at Sodom and Gomorrah, Jehovah advised Abraham of his decision to investigate (by means of his angels) to “see whether they act altogether according to the outcry over it that has come to me, and, if not, I can get to know it.” (Ge 18:20-22; 19:1) God spoke of ‘becoming acquainted with Abraham,’ and after Abraham went to the point of attempting to sacrifice Isaac, Jehovah said, “For now I do know that you are God-fearing in that you have not withheld your son, your only one, from me.”—Ge 18:19; 22:11, 12; compare Ne 9:7, 8; Ga 4:9.

Selective foreknowledge means that God could choose not to foreknow indiscriminately all the future acts of his creatures. This would mean that, rather than all history from creation onward being a mere rerun of what had already been foreseen and foreordained, God could with all sincerity set before the first human pair the prospect of everlasting life in an earth free from wickedness. His instructions to his first human son and daughter to act as his perfect and sinless agents in filling the earth with their offspring and making it a paradise, as well as exercising control over the animal creation, could thus be expressed as the grant of a truly loving privilege and as his genuine desire toward them—not merely as the giving of a commission that, on their part, was foredoomed to failure. God’s arranging for a test by means of “the tree of the knowledge of good and bad” and his creation of “the tree of life” in the garden of Eden also would not be meaningless or cynical acts, made so by his foreknowing that the human pair would sin and never be able to eat of “the tree of life.”—Ge 1:28; 2:7-9, 15-17; 3:22-24.

To offer something very desirable to another person on conditions known beforehand to be unreachable is recognized as both hypocritical and cruel. The prospect of everlasting life is presented in God’s Word as a goal for all persons, one possible to attain. After urging his listeners to ‘keep on asking and seeking’ good things from God, Jesus pointed out that a father does not give a stone or a serpent to his child that asks for bread or a fish. Showing his Father’s view of disappointing the legitimate hopes of a person, Jesus then said: “Therefore, if you, although being wicked, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more so will your Father who is in the heavens give good things to those asking him?”—Mt 7:7-11.

Thus, the invitations and opportunities to receive benefits and everlasting blessings set before all men by God are bona fide. (Mt 21:22; Jas 1:5, 6) He can in all sincerity urge men to ‘turn back from transgression and keep living,’ as he did with the people of Israel. (Eze 18:23, 30-32; compare Jer 29:11, 12.) Logically, he could not do this if he foreknew that they were individually destined to die in wickedness. (Compare Ac 17:30, 31; 1Ti 2:3, 4.) As Jehovah told Israel: “Nor said I to the seed of Jacob, ‘Seek me simply for nothing, you people.’ I am Jehovah, speaking what is righteous, telling what is upright. . . . Turn to me and be saved, all you at the ends of the earth.”—Isa 45:19-22.

In a similar vein, the apostle Peter writes: “Jehovah is not slow respecting his promise [of the coming day of reckoning], as some people consider slowness, but he is patient with you because he does not desire any to be destroyed but desires all to attain to repentance.” (2Pe 3:9) If God already foreknew and foreordained millenniums in advance precisely which individuals would receive eternal salvation and which individuals would receive eternal destruction, it may well be asked how meaningful such ‘patience’ of God could be and how genuine his desire could be that ‘all attain to repentance.’ The inspired apostle John wrote that “God is love,” and the apostle Paul states that love “hopes all things.” (1Jo 4:8; 1Co 13:4, 7) It is in harmony with this outstanding, divine quality that God should exercise a genuinely open, kindly attitude toward all persons, he being desirous of their gaining salvation, until they prove themselves unworthy, beyond hope. (Compare 2Pe 3:9; Heb 6:4-12.) Thus, the apostle Paul speaks of “the kindly quality of God [that] is trying to lead you to repentance.”—Ro 2:4-6.

Finally if, by God’s foreknowledge, the opportunity to receive the benefits of Christ Jesus’ ransom sacrifice were already irrevocably sealed off from some, perhaps for millions of individuals, even before their birth, so that such ones could never prove worthy, it could not truly be said that the ransom was made available to all men. (2Co 5:14, 15; 1Ti 2:5, 6; Heb 2:9) The impartiality of God is clearly no mere figure of speech. “In every nation the man that fears [God] and works righteousness is acceptable to him.” (Ac 10:34, 35; De 10:17;Ro 2:11) The option is actually and genuinely open to all men “to seek God, if they might grope for him and really find him, although, in fact, he is not far off from each one of us.” (Ac 17:26, 27) There is no empty hope or hollow promise set forth, therefore, in the divine exhortation at the end of the book of Revelation inviting: “Let anyone hearing say: ‘Come!’ And let anyone thirsting come; let anyone that wishes take life’s water free.”—Re 22:17.

Excerpt from Foreknowledge, Foreordination — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY

Furthermore, added to this, is God's statement quite a few times that He 'was hurt at His heart', and 'regretted' the course some men took. If He had preplanned everything.....that would make Him a Sadomasochist.
 

Hockeycowboy

Witness for Jehovah
Premium Member
It would be up to the mother. If she wants children she will have to accept the defect.



Good question to ask any kid with a defect.



How many kids one should have is up to the parents. I think they should make responsible choices.



We all have "defects".

I suspect we may have designer babies shortly where a child that will never run a 4 minute mile, won't grow to be at least 6 feet tall and fails to score an IQ greater than 148 will be deemed "defective". Under such a scenario most of us would be aborted.
Interesting answers, Oeste! You are a thinker!
Take care, friend.
 

tempogain

Member
it ultimately leads to blaming Him for all the badness that's ever happened. (I think that's your goal, isn't it Skwim?)

Does this really change that situation? God surely knew what kind of beings he had created and what we were capable of. It can't just have been a random creation of some kind of higher sentient being, one as good as the other? And we'll just see what happens, good laughs all around? He had to know there would be a lot of "badness". I could accept that he could suspend his awareness regarding individuals. But there's no way he couldn't have known the big picture, without being equally "unforgivably" random. If that were true, couldn't things even have ended up considerably worse? Still, you can see I put unforgivably in quotes. I'm on the fence about the whole thing. I don't think God can escape his responsibility for badness in this world. But, there's a lot of goodness. A world without anything bad is almost unimaginable to me. Ultimately, I have no way of knowing if things could really be more "perfect". I tend strongly to think they could though. While that is not a main cause for my atheism, it doesn't really do anything to convince me otherwise :)

Hope you're enjoying the playoffs by the way. Unless you're from Pittsburgh or Tampa :)
 

Hockeycowboy

Witness for Jehovah
Premium Member
Does this really change that situation? God surely knew what kind of beings he had created and what we were capable of. It can't just have been a random creation of some kind of higher sentient being, one as good as the other? And we'll just see what happens, good laughs all around? He had to know there would be a lot of "badness". I could accept that he could suspend his awareness regarding individuals. But there's no way he couldn't have known the big picture, without being equally "unforgivably" random. If that were true, couldn't things even have ended up considerably worse? Still, you can see I put unforgivably in quotes. I'm on the fence about the whole thing. I don't think God can escape his responsibility for badness in this world. But, there's a lot of goodness. A world without anything bad is almost unimaginable to me. Ultimately, I have no way of knowing if things could really be more "perfect". I tend strongly to think they could though. While that is not a main cause for my atheism, it doesn't really do anything to convince me otherwise :)

Hope you're enjoying the playoffs by the way. Unless you're from Pittsburgh or Tampa :)
Thanks for the friendly reply. You mention some good points!


It's very late here...I've gotta get some sleep...but I'll respond soon.
Goodnight.
 

Skwim

Veteran Member
How did god become omniscient suddenly?
No "suddenly" about it. 87% of Christians (91% of protestants like yourself) believe god is omniscient. Hell, most Lutherans believe it. Those belonging to the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America, the Evangelical Lutheran Church in Canada, and the Missouri Synod certainly do.

81803.png


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Skwim

Veteran Member
Holding to a view that God. . . .

. . . . Furthermore, added to this, is God's statement quite a few times that He 'was hurt at His heart', and 'regretted' the course some men took. If He had preplanned everything.....that would make Him a Sadomasochist.
Fine, then I'll assume you believe that when god created mankind he didn't know man would ever be a sinful creature, which implies he never saw the future of mankind at all. That he was completely ignorant of the fact that in a very short time he would be sending a "form" of himself (as his son) to die on a cross for the sins his creatures were committing.

Really?

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Mock Turtle

Oh my, did I say that!
Premium Member
God is the ultimate joker? Has made so many galaxies and stars so out of our reach and left us here on this miserable piece of earth (joke!) - and given us a finite life - for which many of us are truly grateful. :musicnotes: :praying:
 

Jumi

Well-Known Member
Good question to ask any kid with a defect.
Why don't you ask them when they're adults having had some life experience? You can also ask then if as kids they understood what you wanted their answers to be?
 

Shushersbedamned

Well-Known Member
No "suddenly" about it. 87% of Christians (91% of protestants like yourself) believe god is omniscient. Hell, most Lutherans believe it. Those belonging to the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America, the Evangelical Lutheran Church in Canada, and the Missouri Synod certainly do.

81803.png


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I doubt most of them know what the word omniscint means
 

Jumi

Well-Known Member
No "suddenly" about it. 87% of Christians (91% of protestants like yourself) believe god is omniscient. Hell, most Lutherans believe it. Those belonging to the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America, the Evangelical Lutheran Church in Canada, and the Missouri Synod certainly do.
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It's not surprising it's not closer to 100%. In Lutheran catechism omniscience is a trait of the Holy Ghost and even wedding vows talk of omniscient God. If you're confirmed and believe what they teach, you will believe God knows all.
 
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