Why Contradictions are useful in Scriptures

[stvdv]

25 jul 2018 stvdv 020 04 info
I saw many threads about "is the prophet/scripture real/authentic"

1: Can't prove if a scripture/prophet is real using its own verses; that is quite obvious to me
So it is useless to quote Koran verses to prove anything in the Koran
So it is useless to quote Bible verses to prove anything in the Bible

2: Our conscience and common sense is God given and perfectly able to distinguish between right/wrong

3: Why humans need their scriptures so desperately to be 100% perfect; lack of self confidence maybe?

Just use your common sense. Ever heard of a Koan?
A paradoxical anecdote or riddle without a solution, used in Zen Buddhism to demonstrate the inadequacy of logical reasoning and provoke enlightenment.
[Koan example.: What is the sound of one hand clapping]

God give all people something according to their cultures: God is fair, all get "contradictions":
In Buddhism they get a Koan. A riddle without a solution. "Enlightenment" needs "let go" of thoughts
In Christianity they get a Bible. Contradictions....
In Judaism they get a Torah. Contradictions....
In Islam they get a Koran. Contradictions....
In Xxxx they get a Yyyyy. Contradictions....

Now we know why the contradictions are there we can view all scriptures different:
* No need to prove a scripture contains contradictions or errors. Of course there are
* Thousands of hours spend searching errors are now yours `free to do ...`
* No need to evangelize, you don't want to `sell` errors to others
* No need to belittle others' scriptures, your is not much better

Step 1: Acknowledge your scripture contains contradictions/errors
Step 2: If no errors then it can't be from God
Step 3: Peace on Earth

Just find the contradictions in your own scriptures and smile
Just find the contradictions in your own prophet and smile
Just find the contradictions in your own religion and smile

Good thing: Arrogance is humbled. Rest is peanuts

Scary isn't it. You are on your own.

 

[stvdv]

25 jul 2018 stvdv 020 05 info

Scary isn't it. You are on your own.

My golden rule: It must just feel good.
*) Only through this scripture life's goal can be achieved = Feels bad
*) Only through this prophet life's goal can be achieved = Feels bad
*) Only through this religion life's goal can be achieved = Feels bad
*) This is the final scripture = Feels bad
*) This is the final prophet = Feels bad
*) This is the final religion = Feels bad

Common Sense:
The ones claiming to be exclusive = Feels bad
The ones threatening if not obeying = Feels bad
The ones using emotional blackmail = Feels bad
The ones propagating violence = Feels bad
The ones belittling others' religion = Feels bad
The ones claiming to be Error Free = Feels bad

" If there is 1 Scripture for all people in a culture, then it must have many levels of interpretation to be useful to all. So for me it makes sense that not all makes sense to me at a given time. There is plenty of verses that make sense now, and I can use now. I just skip the ones I can't use now. They are for others or other times. That is how it works for me.

* And I realize that Scriptures are a stepping stone. Helping me to find "My Scripture within"

 

[stvdv]

25 jul 2018 stvdv 020 06 info

Just find the contradictions in your own prophet and smile

My Master Sai Baba is the worst of the worst. Many contradictions, the best teacher for me. [His favorite "Love My Uncertainty"]

So for me it's fine finding contradiction in Scriptures. I have learned to think for myself and not follow blind [sometimes I do, that is also okay, as long as I don't hurt others doing it]. When I read Scriptures I rather find common ground, not differences. But if people claim their scripture contains ZERO errors it's a nice challenge to see if I can find an error of course. But even if I find an error, maybe it was useful in the time written. Many times you can find deeper meanings also.

Beware when asking Sai Baba questions. He even warned us "Beware what you ask, I can give it, and you might not like it".
Always testing us. And you always loose. Unless He uses you to teach others a lesson. See below.

Example: Sai Baba with a bunch of students walking. Suddenly spotting student sitting alone. Whispering to other student "You see that student, he is very bad. Not listening to me. I will prove it to you". So Sai Baba calls softly the student. No reply. SB "You see, not listening". Then louder calling, still no reply. Then shouting. Still no reply. SB"Very bad student, you all agree?". They all agree. SB"Maybe we better ask why he is not listening to me". Why you didn't come when I called you. Student replies "God inside told me not to reply". Sai Baba turning to other students "Aha, you see, he is a very good student. He listens to God inside, not to God outside".

Plenty of these experiences I had. Masters love it. Use whatever needed to teach you. Even making themselves look like fools. They don't care, just if you learn something [My experience]

 

[Earthling]

25 jul 2018 stvdv 020 04 info
I saw many threads about "is the prophet/scripture real/authentic"

1: Can't prove if a scripture/prophet is real using its own verses; that is quite obvious to me
So it is useless to quote Koran verses to prove anything in the Koran
So it is useless to quote Bible verses to prove anything in the Bible

Is it? If I want to show you that Gandalf is a wizard in the Lord Of The Rings, I refer you to J.R.R. Tolkien's Lord Of The Rings books. If I want to show you that a certain law is in effect I refer you to a law book. If I want to show you that God is love, I refer you, not to my own opinion, but to the Bible. If I want to show you that Buddha didn't believe in God I refer you to the Gospel of Buddha. Now, Buddha's teachings weren't committed to writing until 500 to 1,000 years after his death, so, you have to take that on faith, but you get the picture.

There is the skeptic criticism that using the Bible to confirm the Bible is circular reasoning, but is it? The Bible is a collection of 66 books written by over 40 different people over a long period of time. If you want to investigate some scientific fact you may refer to a set of different science books written by different people over a period of time. Same thing. If the Bible were written by only one person at one time then it would be circular reasoning to confirm something in it with it. That would be like me saying "such and such is true because I said it is true." This is called begging the question, or circular reasoning.

2: Our conscience and common sense is God given and perfectly able to distinguish between right/wrong

Though it is true God gave us a conscience, it can become defiled, corrupted, dulled. Titus 1:15 1 Corinthians 8:7. A good conscience must be cultivated.

3: Why humans need their scriptures so desperately to be 100% perfect; lack of self confidence maybe?

Maybe, but I don't think so. I know that there is nothing in this world that is 100% perfect, least of all me, and also not scripture, and I'm a fairly confident person. Perhaps over confident at times, like anyone else. I think people want to believe their scriptures are 100% perfect because they don't know better or they think that it would reflect poorly on their beliefs. People can be more sensitive about their beliefs, their world view, than themselves.

Also, people want to think that if they read it in their scriptures it must be right and perfect, they don't like to think it would require any more thought than that because that, again, would reflect poorly on their beliefs. Their God.

Just use your common sense. Ever heard of a Koan?

A paradoxical anecdote or riddle without a solution, used in Zen Buddhism to demonstrate the inadequacy of logical reasoning and provoke enlightenment.
[Koan example.: What is the sound of one hand clapping]

Interesting. I don't recall ever hearing that term.

God give all people something according to their cultures: God is fair, all get "contradictions":

In Buddhism they get a Koan. A riddle without a solution. "Enlightenment" needs "let go" of thoughts
In Christianity they get a Bible. Contradictions....
In Judaism they get a Torah. Contradictions....
In Islam they get a Koran. Contradictions....
In Xxxx they get a Yyyyy. Contradictions....

Now we know why the contradictions are there we can view all scriptures different:
* No need to prove a scripture contains contradictions or errors. Of course there are
* Thousands of hours spend searching errors are now yours `free to do ...`
* No need to evangelize, you don't want to `sell` errors to others
* No need to belittle others' scriptures, your is not much better

Step 1: Acknowledge your scripture contains contradictions/errors
Step 2: If no errors then it can't be from God
Step 3: Peace on Earth

Just find the contradictions in your own scriptures and smile
Just find the contradictions in your own prophet and smile
Just find the contradictions in your own religion and smile

Good thing: Arrogance is humbled. Rest is peanuts

Scary isn't it. You are on your own.

I think I see what you are getting at, but would you say the same for science? Contradictions should just be accepted. No arguing or debate. No changes. No disagreement. Just keep the peace.

In Buddhism you are taught that everything is suffering. Not just that which is ugly but that which is beautiful. You are suffering because of peace and love. You must let it go, IMO.

 

[Earthling]

25 jul 2018 stvdv 020 05 info


My golden rule: It must just feel good.
*) Only through this scripture life's goal can be achieved = Feels bad
*) Only through this prophet life's goal can be achieved = Feels bad
*) Only through this religion life's goal can be achieved = Feels bad
*) This is the final scripture = Feels bad
*) This is the final prophet = Feels bad
*) This is the final religion = Feels bad

Common Sense:
The ones claiming to be exclusive = Feels bad
The ones threatening if not obeying = Feels bad
The ones using emotional blackmail = Feels bad
The ones propagating violence = Feels bad
The ones belittling others' religion = Feels bad
The ones claiming to be Error Free = Feels bad

" If there is 1 Scripture for all people in a culture, then it must have many levels of interpretation to be useful to all. So for me it makes sense that not all makes sense to me at a given time. There is plenty of verses that make sense now, and I can use now. I just skip the ones I can't use now. They are for others or other times. That is how it works for me.

* And I realize that Scriptures are a stepping stone. Helping me to find "My Scripture within"

How does the scripture within affect the scripture without and the scripture without affect the scripture within? Do they harmonize over time or do they contend with one another? Is the goal for one to win over the other or for them to equalize, or instead to constantly counter one another. Are they like the sides of the magnet which repels or the sides which adheres?

 

[stvdv]

Is it? If I want to show you that Gandalf is a wizard in the Lord Of The Rings, I refer you to J.R.R. Tolkien's Lord Of The Rings books.

I was talking about Scriptures. Take the Koran. You can't prove something is true by quoting 1 verse. Even Muslims defend themselves all the time "read in context" etc.

Though it is true God gave us a conscience, it can become defiled, corrupted, dulled. Titus 1:15 1 Corinthians 8:7. A good conscience must be cultivated.

Agreed. Sai Baba advised genesis diet for spiritual inclined people to purify [explicitly telling this is true for all people in the world], so that your conscience gets more truthful.

Maybe, but I don't think so. I know that there is nothing in this world that is 100% perfect, least of all me, and also not scripture, and I'm a fairly confident person.

There is "self confidence" and "Self Confidence". In this context I talk about "Self Confidence".

I think I see what you are getting at, but would you say the same for science? Contradictions should just be accepted. No arguing or debate. No changes. No disagreement.

Religion is a belief. Religion is a gift of God to help humans in distress with some pointers. Goal of Life [Scriptures/Saints say] is God Realization. God won't spoon-feed us.
So God gives us Koans and riddles. Teacher teaches you the subject. BUT in exams, the teacher won't whisper you the answers usually. Science is the result of exams passed

In Buddhism you are taught that everything is suffering. Not just that which is ugly but that which is beautiful. You are suffering because of peace and love. You must let it go, IMO.

Yes, Buddhism teaches that everything from the world is suffering. So the goal is to transcend attachment to the world by attachment to `meditation` [or God in other religions]

 

[stvdv]

There is the skeptic criticism that using the Bible to confirm the Bible is circular reasoning, but is it?

Good point. Being Christian it is easier to see circular reasoning in Koran. And if it is true for Koran, it probably is true for other scriptures as well [my common sense tells me]

 

[Earthling]

Good point. Being Christian it is easier to see circular reasoning in Koran. And if it is true for Koran, it probably is true for other scriptures as well [my common sense tells me]

I'm not sure about the history of the Koran. It seems to me, from having read it a few times, that it was written by various authors, though I don't know over how long a period of time.

 

[stvdv]

How does the scripture within affect the scripture without and the scripture without affect the scripture within? Do they harmonize over time or do they contend with one another? Is the goal for one to win over the other or for them to equalize, or instead to constantly counter one another. Are they like the sides of the magnet which repels or the sides which adheres?

Wonderful said!

God is my spiritual teacher. When studying engineering one teacher said "It does not matter what you learn here, what matters is that you learn how to learn yourself". This stuck with me my whole life. How much more this is true in spiritual life. How can a scripture tickle you when there is no challenge [challenge being some inconsistencies, finding deeper levels etc]. So definitely the "Inner Scripture" can teach you much more than the "Outer Scripture". The "Outer Scripture" is like a bootstrap to the "Inner Scripture". And to me that is obvious looking at the Saints who were Self Realized. And they all claim this. So all puzzle peaces fit.

For me the goal is to be free from Scriptures [with respect and gratefulness for the "Scripture Guru" of course]. Self Realized, like my teacher above said "learn to learn yourself".

 

[stvdv]

I'm not sure about the history of the Koran. It seems to me, from having read it a few times, that it was written by various authors, though I don't know over how long a period of time.

Exactly, we can never be sure about the history of the Koran by reading the Scripture. But the more we purify our God-antenna the more God can reveal the truth about Koran.

People claim Prophet is unique. Not according to Sai Baba. We can all become a Messenger of God. Purify the tongue, major one with 2 functions [taste (Genesis Diet), speech (talk less/nice)] + don't waste semen = spiritual energy. And the more we purify ourselves by above practices the more (pure) God will reveal Himself to us. So all people who are genuinely interested to "know" God, just need to do the "hard work".

Muslims claim Koran author is God. Would be great, I am 100% sure it's not true. You read it a few times and came also to that conclusion, there are various authors. That is what I mean "Inner Scripture" supersedes "Outer Scripture".

Sai Baba said "Part time work, part time payment. That also works with the Divine". That explains it all to me.

 

[Walterbl]

The vast majority of the so called biblical contradictions can be harmonized by the proper interpretation.