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Why christians believe that jesus is God?

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by ahmedhelmy, Jul 26, 2005.

  1. may

    may Well-Known Member

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    because he is the firstborn son ,everything else was created through this firstborn son even the other angels
    He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation; because by means of him all [other] things were created in the heavens and upon the earth, the things visible and the things invisible, no matter whether they are thrones or lordships or governments or authorities. All [other] things have been created through him and for him. Also, he is before all [other] things and by means of him all [other] things were made to exist colossians 1;15-17

    All things came into existence through him, and apart from him not even one thing came into existence...John 1;3

    So he has become better than the angels, to the extent that he has inherited a name more excellent than theirs .... hebrews 1;4

    So the Word became flesh and resided among us, and we had a view of his glory, a glory such as belongs to an only-begotten son from a father; and he was full of undeserved kindness and truth...John 1;14

    For God loved the world so much that he gave his only-begotten Son, in order that everyone exercising faith in him might not be destroyed but have everlasting life...John 3;16
    He that exercises faith in him is not to be judged. He that does not exercise faith has been judged already, because he has not exercised faith in the name of the only-begotten Son of God...John 3;18

    By this the love of God was made manifest in our case, because God sent forth his only-begotten Son into the world that we might gain life through him...1 John 4;9
    the Greek word ge´nos means "family stock; kinsfolk; offspring; race." It is translated "race" in 1 Peter 2:9. The Latin Vulgate by Jerome renders mo·no·ge·nes´ as unigenitus, meaning "only-begotten" or "only." This relationship of the term to birth or descent is recognized by numerous lexicographers



     
  2. James the Persian

    James the Persian Dreptcredincios Crestin

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    So, you basically think that Michael is a sort of super-archangel, that created all the others, right? That, to me, seems to be absolutely identical to the idea of a lesser, created god. Arius would be proud. The only difference between your belief and his is that you've associated the name Michael with your lesser god.

    I'm not sure exactly what you were trying to achieve by your Greek 'lesson'. I'm perfectly well aware of what the Greek says and I still fail to see how it can apply to a creation. I couldn't care less how it was translated in the Vulgate either as I don't use it, but in this case (with my limited knowledge of Latin) I do believe that St. Jerome translated correctly - it does mean only begotten and NOT first created (which is, I guess, how you must interpret it). Save your linguistic arguments for someone with a little less familiarity with the subject - they might be more effective.

    James
     
  3. DreamQuickBook

    DreamQuickBook Active Member

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    I don't understand what people get out of reading the Bible in Greek. I've tried to read it and it doesn't make any sense at all. I didn't understand a single word.

    :cool:
     
  4. may

    may Well-Known Member

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    so is Jesus God ?not according to the bible
     
  5. James the Persian

    James the Persian Dreptcredincios Crestin

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    Not yours, perhaps, but it seems pretty clear from mine.

    James
     
  6. Bishadi

    Bishadi Active Member

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    this is what I get Mark 10:17-19 King James Version

    17And when he was gone forth into the way, there came one running, and kneeled to him, and asked him, Good Master, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life?

    18And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.

    19Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Defraud not, Honour thy father and mother.

    Here we have the big JC stating what is truly said, the rules are written, follow them. My second point is JC referring to God as a complete other not as he. From his quote as is written in the KJV but is there maybe another that does not read quite so detrimental to this belief structure?:confused:

     
  7. may

    may Well-Known Member

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    And as he was going out on his way, a certain man ran up and fell upon his knees before him and put the question to him: "Good Teacher, what must I do to inherit everlasting life?" Jesus said to him: "Why do you call me good? Nobody is good, except one, God. ...mark;10 17yes i agree ,two seperate ones , the same in these scriptures in the other gospels









    (Matthew 19:17) He said to him: "Why do you ask me about what is good? One there is that is good. If, though, you want to enter into life, observe the commandments continually."














    (Luke 18:19) Jesus said to him: "Why do you call me good? Nobody is good, except one, God.also we can see that from these scriptures that they are seperate
    (John 12:49) because I have not spoken out of my own impulse, but the Father himself who sent me has given me a commandment as to what to tell and what to speak.

    A revelation by Jesus Christ, which God gave him, to show his slaves the things that must shortly take place. And he sent forth his angel and presented [it] in signs through him to his slave John..... revelation 1.......notice, which God gave to Jesus christ there is no getting away from it the bible as a whole says Jesus is Gods son and seperate from God and not a manmade pagan doctrine. the bible is plain to see if people are not blinded by thoughts of men.


     
  8. Bishadi

    Bishadi Active Member

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    May - your post does not say anything other than that you believe in some scriptures and not others. Normal I guess.

    As for the spirit of God being within Jesus well of course it is and You, me and everything thing, living or other of the universe all at the same time. No secret to many.

    But Jesus was not God as some confess.
     
  9. may

    may Well-Known Member

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    the point i am trying to make is that the bible as a whole teaches us that Jesus is Gods son and not God as for me not believing in some scriptures what makes you think that as far as i am concerned all scriptue is inspired of God 2
    timothy 3; 16
     
  10. WWJD believer

    WWJD believer New Member

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    Hi, I'm new here and just thought I might try putting my 2 cents in on this and I hope I explain it right. I guess the way it was explained to be about how Jesus is God is a little silly when you first hear it but it makes sence. Think of God Jesus and the Holy spirt, as one entity, the same as you do an egg. With an egg you have 3 parts Shell, White, part and Yoke, BUT it is an EGG. He is GOD in the Heavenly form, He came to earth as Jesus in an Earthly form, and after his Death he returned to us as the Holy Spirt. The reason we as Christians believe that Jesus was the son of God is because it was for told by the prophets like Elijah, that a savior would come to us in an earthly form that we could understand, and told us the exact circomstances of how he would arrive, and then when Jesus was born the prophicies that where for told thousands of years before had come true. They told us that is was comming born of a virgin, where he would be born, and what would happen to him after he came including his crusifictionJOHN 3:16 FOR GOD SO LOVED THE WORLD THAT HE GAVE IS ONLY BEGOTEN SON THAT HOW SO EVER BELIEVETH IN HIM SHOULD NOT PERISH BUT HAVE EVERLASTING LIVE.
     
  11. may

    may Well-Known Member

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    yes you are right about the prophecies regarding Jesus christ but we do not need to have illustrations to explain about the son of God because the bible is clear enough .we dont need any thing other than Gods word. its only when m anmade doctrine puts wrong meanings that people need to start trying to explain about the false trinitydoctrine.the bible is clear enough.
     
  12. michel

    michel Administrator Emeritus
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    Hi WWJD believer,


    That's an interesting post; as it is the first on the forum, I thought that I'd like to welcome you.


    You might like to have a look at :- Articles for New Members ; from there, there is a link to the forum rules, which you ought to see.

    Perhaps you would like to post on:- Are you new to ReligiousForums.com? , so that you can introduce yourself to the other members.


    I look forwards to your posts.:)
     
  13. Jensen

    Jensen Active Member

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    Much of Christianity does teach that Jesus is God. But not all of Christianity. To say otherwise is to be in error. People within Christianity have differing views on this subject also. But the Holy Bible does not call Jesus God. As you can see by the Bible verses that show that Jesus considered God the Father the one true God. For Jesus to say that he is God, and also to say that the one true God is the Father, would be to indicate that he Jesus must then not be a true god. Doesn't make sense. Not once in the Bible does Jesus or anyone else call Jesus God the Son, but he is called the Son of God many many times. Much, but not all, of Christianity from the 4th century onword teach that Jesus is God, but true Christianity is what is found in the New Testament, not in a creed written up three hundred plus years after Christ.

    Verses from the Bible:

    "This is eternal life, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent" (John 17:3).

    John 5:26,NASB,
    26 "For just as the Father has life in Himself, even so He gave to the Son also to have life in Himself;

    Ephesians 1

    3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:

    Ephesians 1

    17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:

    Deuteronomy 6 :4-5 Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD: 5 And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.:)
     
  14. Scott1

    Scott1 Well-Known Member

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    The problem is... I agree... I just don't know why you do.

    God is Divine.

    God has a son.

    This son is not Divine.:confused:

    This son is an angel.

    ... but the other angels are not God's sons.

    WHAT?

    Try to follow along:

    If a dog has an offspring it's a ?......... dog. Right?

    If a chicken has an offspring it's a?.................... chicken. Right?

    If a human has an offspring it's a?................. human. Right?

    If God has an offspring it's a?..................... God. Right?
    :D
    Scott
     
  15. Katzpur

    Katzpur Not your average Mormon

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    Hello, Jensen.

    I believe you are wrong in saying that nowhere in the Bible is Jesus referred to as "God."

    As a matter of fact, in Hebrews 1:8, God the Father himself says to His Only Begotten Son, "Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom."

    I would agree with you that Jesus is not the same individual as His Father. However, if His Father addressed Him as "God," I believe it is entirely appropriate for us to do so as well.

    Kathryn
     
  16. may

    may Well-Known Member

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    yes i agree that is what the bible teaches , it amazes me why christendom who take on the trinity need to do this, but it was foretold that even men among youselves would speak twisted thingsand people would follow them i think that did happen with the trinity doctrine but as you say not all are misled
     
  17. ahmedhelmy

    ahmedhelmy Member

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    I can see there are difference in your views. It seems that different translations have lost the true meaning of Bible. Where is the true bible? Are it the bible within your hand?From what u are saying it isnot.
     
  18. Mister Emu

    Mister Emu Emu Extraordinaire
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    Incorrect as Katzpur has already shown :D

    Unless there is a trinity, of one God in three persons...

    Or in an idea, such as the non-divinity of our savior, thought of centuries after His earthly life.

    It clearly states in the New Testament that Jesus created all things, that without Him, not one thing was created, however go back to the OT, God creates everything?..
     
  19. may

    may Well-Known Member

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    most of the confusion arises because of wrong translations ,regarding hebrews 1;8 this is the correct translation of this verse
    But with reference to the Son: "God is your throne forever and ever, and [the] scepter of your kingdom is the scepter of uprightness......so is Jesus theGod spoken of in this verse.No,the one spoken of here is Jehovah God not Jesus.when it says God is your (the sons)throne forever and ever.this shows that Jesus throne, his office or aurthority as a sovereign, has its source in Jehovah the Almighty God. we have to take the context into consideration here ,in many translations in the main text or in the margin hebrews 1;9 reads,God ,your God,anoited you. this makes it clear that the one adressed in verse 8 is not God,but one who worships God and is annointed by him,also hebrews 1;8 is a quotation from psalm 45;6,7. which was adressed to a human king of israel.the writer of this psalm did not think that this human king was Almighty God and the writer of hebrews didnt think that Jesus was Almighty God either.no , (Elo-him God)in the original would not have been adressed to the king



    With good reason, a number of translations render Hebrews 1:8 as, "God is your throne." (See An American Translation, Moffatt; also the marginal reading in American Standard Version, Revised Standard Version and The New English Bible.) This makes it clear that the "Son," Jesus Christ, has a God who is higher than he is.

     
  20. Jensen

    Jensen Active Member

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    In the lower margin of my RSV bible it says:

    Or God is thy throne.

    So it is a matter of interpretation and argument of which is more accurate. And to be accurate, verses must agree. And "God is thy throne" is more accurate with other verses such as John 17:3, and Ephesians 1:3,17.

     
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