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Why Can't You Just Be Nice?

Heyo

Veteran Member
In the heat of debate, why do some of you feel the need to behave like a jerk or be disrespectful to get your point across?
Being a jerk is a cultural thing. To some it seems insulting to be directly told that they are wrong. To me it seems insulting to sugarcoat a critique like I'm a child or mentally unstable and can't handle the truth. (Though I always assume good intention at first and don't act insulted.)
I've been in heated debates, while I occasionally resort to sarcasm or snark either to get my point across or to inject humor, I do my best to maintain a level of respect for the person with which I'm engaged.

I wonder why others here struggle to do the same. Would you walk up to someone on the street and speak with someone the way you do here? I'm sure some of you would have your bell rung for the lack of respect you display here if you displayed such in real life.
The analogy with the man on the street doesn't really fit. An OP is more like climbing the podium at speakers corner and a conversation here is more like people meeting at a party or a convention. We can at least assume a common interest and the willingness to discuss, i.e. having our points criticized.
Is it because you have a degree of anonymity here?
For me it is more a degree of familiarity. A random stranger is more likely to misunderstand my intentions than a friend or a stranger that has joined my friends and me.
Does behaving like a jerk to others somehow make you feel better about yourself?
I try not to behave like a jerk. I'm a bit direct sometimes and I can be snarky. Does that make me a jerk?
 

crossfire

LHP Mercuræn Feminist Heretic ☿
Premium Member
The intent is clear from a third party perspective. I wasn't even considering at content directed at me when I posted this. The OP was inspired by a debate I was reading between a couple of other members, which got me thinking of many others I've seen (and in many cases, mopped up).
This post wasn't directed at you personally. ;)
 

stvdv

Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV
You had nothing to share
So you claim to know what I know(1)
Next you claim to be Omniscient(2)
Next you claim to be God(3)

Unless they are God
Those claiming (3), suffer from disease

Unless they are Omniscient
Those claiming (2), suffer from disease

Unless they are me
Those claiming (1), suffer from disease
 

stvdv

Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV
@columbus @stvdv
An excellent example of a classical misunderstanding.
You took stvdv's snark as insulting while columbus understood it as friendly banter and handled it gracefully with a witty retort without injecting any bile.
Thank you. Well said. I had not the slightest insult in mind when writing this. I had to google what snark means even.

It was far from snarky.
If people believe we are created by God, I can go along. I can't prove this to be untrue

But after we pop out, so to speak, creation is done, and we are on "our own" IMO, but equipped with all we need; society, parents, mind, discrimination and Self Effort, Spirituality. Hence my innocent "friendly banter" as you nicely worded it.

I might call it maybe a little bit "naughty playful" reply, but it was definitely not cranky or snarky. Just how I saw it at that moment.

And I like @columbus, so, me being a pleaser, would never be snarky to him (nor anyone else). Using snark could be my last resort when people really push it too far (and I lost my control and forgot my resolution not to use sarcasm anymore in 1992; truth is more effective IME).

And the kicker: I can agree with Colombus. If you believe God is the Creator then you can blame/praise Him for everything IMHO. And I would encourage those who believe this to go on with it (the more the better). Blaming God is much better than taking it out on others (in His name) IMO.
 
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We Never Know

No Slack
In the heat of debate, why do some of you feel the need to behave like a jerk or be disrespectful to get your point across?

I've been in heated debates, while I occasionally resort to sarcasm or snark either to get my point across or to inject humor, I do my best to maintain a level of respect for the person with which I'm engaged.

I wonder why others here struggle to do the same. Would you walk up to someone on the street and speak with someone the way you do here? I'm sure some of you would have your bell rung for the lack of respect you display here if you displayed such in real life.

Is it because you have a degree of anonymity here?

Does behaving like a jerk to others somehow make you feel better about yourself?
Great post. I would agree anonymity has a great deal to do with it.
With that said, you being a staff member, why are so many that call people stupid, ignorant, uneducated, etc overlooked?
In all reality those are personal attacks and are against the rules.
And as you said not having to face the other person AND then add not being disciplined by staff, why would anyone have any reason to act differently?
 

stvdv

Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV
Being a jerk is a cultural thing. To some it seems insulting to be directly told that they are wrong.
Even a family thing

To me it seems insulting to sugarcoat a critique like I'm a child or mentally unstable and can't handle the truth. (Though I always assume good intention at first and don't act insulted.)
Thanks. Useful reminder. Truth is my friend

An OP is more like climbing the podium at speakers corner and a conversation here is more like people meeting at a party or a convention. We can at least assume a common interest and the willingness to discuss, i.e. having our points criticized.
Nice analogy. Seeing (realizing) it this way, changes behavior immediately

For me it is more a degree of familiarity. A random stranger is more likely to misunderstand my intentions than a friend or a stranger that has joined my friends and me.
Useful view in the context of the OP

I try not to behave like a jerk. I'm a bit direct sometimes and I can be snarky. Does that make me a jerk?
No. But thanks for the heads up:)
 
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stvdv

Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV
With that said ...... why are so many that call people stupid, ignorant, uneducated, etc overlooked?
Our (users) responsibility to press "Tools+Report" button

In all reality those are personal attacks and are against the rules.
RF Rules even asks/urges us to help staff members to keep it clean by pressing report button, if I remember RF Rules well

And as you said not having to face the other person AND then add not being disciplined by staff, why would anyone have any reason to act differently?
Inner moral feeling to do the right thing
 

Mock Turtle

Oh my, did I say that!
Premium Member
Why Can't You Just Be Nice?

Because nice all too often is just so boring? I would be just as honest in person (even obnoxious, but usually not) unless I sized another up as being rather more volatile and less controlled than I would like. We all deserve honesty but also to be allowed to opine as we see fit. All too often if one has a viewpoint - especially a religious one - it might take more than common debate to get one's point across - because barriers commonly are erected if we suspect that something is going to challenge our cherished belief system.
 

Darkforbid

Well-Known Member
So you claim to know what I know(1)
Next you claim to be Omniscient(2)
Next you claim to be God(3)

Unless they are God
Those claiming (3), suffer from disease

Unless they are Omniscient
Those claiming (2), suffer from disease

Unless they are me
Those claiming (1), suffer from disease

Really, dude? Like I'd need to be God. To say that anybody suddenly claiming understanding they won't share is most probably just lying.
 

SalixIncendium

अग्निविलोवनन्दः
Staff member
Premium Member
So you resort to sarcasm and snark ..... but you don't appreciate that response in your posts.

Is it because you have a degree in self importance?

This is a straw man argument, and you know it. Can you show me where I said that I don't appreciate sarcasm and snark directed at me? I, in fact, offered an elaboration that was quite clear in post #32.

You'd have done better to stick with the first draft. ;)
 

SalixIncendium

अग्निविलोवनन्दः
Staff member
Premium Member
I try not to behave like a jerk. I'm a bit direct sometimes and I can be snarky. Does that make me a jerk?

Not in my view. I appreciate clever snark, and I brutal honesty is a characteristic I admire in people. My best friend has no filter and that's one of the things I love about her. You never have to guess where you stand with people like that. No games.
 

SalixIncendium

अग्निविलोवनन्दः
Staff member
Premium Member
This post wasn't directed at you personally. ;)

I didn't think it was. But your post compelled me to preemptively offer clarification in case one made an assumption that the OP was written out of butthurt. For all the good it did, for at least one poster did exactly that later in the thread.
 

SalixIncendium

अग्निविलोवनन्दः
Staff member
Premium Member
Why Can't You Just Be Nice?

Because nice all too often is just so boring? I would be just as honest in person (even obnoxious, but usually not) unless I sized another up as being rather more volatile and less controlled than I would like. We all deserve honesty but also to be allowed to opine as we see fit. All too often if one has a viewpoint - especially a religious one - it might take more than common debate to get one's point across - because barriers commonly are erected if we suspect that something is going to challenge our cherished belief system.

One can be nice and not be boring. Also, one can be nice but yet still be honest. I don't see how honesty equates to being a jerk or being disrespectful.

I do my best to be honest with everything I write or speak. I can do this without being disrespectful or behaving like a jerk. Some people might not be prepared to such honesty, but that's on them, not me.

While I appreciate you answering the question in the title, the title was more or less click-bait. The meat of what I wanted to discuss lies in the OP itself. :)
 

SalixIncendium

अग्निविलोवनन्दः
Staff member
Premium Member
Really, dude? Like I'd need to be God. To say that anybody suddenly claiming understanding they won't share is most probably just lying.

While I'm sure I don't need to point out the irony of your posts to the reader in the last few pages of this thread, I going to anyway, just because I think you may be missing it.
 

Stevicus

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
In the heat of debate, why do some of you feel the need to behave like a jerk or be disrespectful to get your point across?

I've been in heated debates, while I occasionally resort to sarcasm or snark either to get my point across or to inject humor, I do my best to maintain a level of respect for the person with which I'm engaged.

I wonder why others here struggle to do the same. Would you walk up to someone on the street and speak with someone the way you do here? I'm sure some of you would have your bell rung for the lack of respect you display here if you displayed such in real life.

Is it because you have a degree of anonymity here?

Does behaving like a jerk to others somehow make you feel better about yourself?

I don't really care that much about "nice," per se. Some people use being nice as some kind of mask, but then there are the opposite types who use being a jerk as some kind of mask to hide their true thoughts and feelings. It's so juvenile, and that's what baffles me. I would rather that people just be honest and upfront, no matter if they're being jerks or being nice.

There have been times where I might post something, and someone responds in a rather snarky or jerky tone. I don't mind that part so much, especially if I've angered or triggered someone. I might even feel a bit guilty myself, if someone is mad at me or that I've upset them somehow. So, my first inclination is to try to make amends, and in order to do this, I need to inquire as to why the person is upset or angry with me. For some reason, this appears to make them even more angry, and then eventually, I start to become angry, too. Not because they're angry or being jerks, but because they refuse to state their reasons or the source of their anger.

If people would simply explain themselves and what makes them tick, there would be far fewer problems. Fewer people would actually mind an insufferable jerk if and when they understand the reasons for it. In many cases, it might be that they're just drunk. Or maybe they have some sort of psychological or medical condition, such as brain damage or other kinds of trauma they're working out. Like if you see some disheveled individual walking down the street shouting expletives to himself, then the typical person might not be all that angry or upset - because they would view that individual as being clearly mentally troubled or emotionally unbalanced, even though he's also being a total jerk.

But because people can see the reason(s) why he's being a jerk, it's not really quite so upsetting or bothersome to the average person.
 

Mock Turtle

Oh my, did I say that!
Premium Member
One can be nice and not be boring. Also, one can be nice but yet still be honest. I don't see how honesty equates to being a jerk or being disrespectful.

I do my best to be honest with everything I write or speak. I can do this without being disrespectful or behaving like a jerk. Some people might not be prepared to such honesty, but that's on them, not me.

While I appreciate you answering the question in the title, the title was more or less click-bait. The meat of what I wanted to discuss lies in the OP itself. :)

Well I was going to answer the points you made but thought a general impression was all that was needed. How can one not be disrespectful for example when others deride one for not having the same views as themselves? Pot and kettle?
 

Darkforbid

Well-Known Member
@columbus @stvdv
An excellent example of a classical misunderstanding.
You took stvdv's snark as insulting while columbus understood it as friendly banter and handled it gracefully with a witty retort without injecting any bile.

Oh, really! I just said it was a stupid comment

The reason you may feel I'm snarky is I'm treating someone who'd say the reason people act like arses on line is because they were abused as kids. As they should be treated
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
@columbus @stvdv
An excellent example of a classical misunderstanding.
You took stvdv's snark as insulting while columbus understood it as friendly banter and handled it gracefully with a witty retort without injecting any bile.
Aye, @columbus can occasionally show good cheer.
He isn't always a roiling cauldron of bile bent on making God cry.
 

SalixIncendium

अग्निविलोवनन्दः
Staff member
Premium Member
Well I was going to answer the points you made but thought a general impression was all that was needed. How can one not be disrespectful for example when others deride one for not having the same views as themselves? Pot and kettle?

By being honest and providing an argument devoid of contempt.
 
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