Why Bahai

[Dawnofhope]

It wasn't you who claimed I have an anti-Baha'i agenda, but neither did you refute it. Differences of opinion are always there. 'Correcting' is often just offering up an alternative POV. You 'correct' me. I 'correct' you. Who knows? It is the error of omission happening here, so it isn't really clear what your prophet thought of all the other religions besides the one he mentions. He couldn't possibly have known the finer details of all the world's religions, but you might believe he did. I think he could have easily mentioned more than 9, two of which are practically unheard of. The Sikhs, and Jains, amongst others were very there during his time.

At times the Baha'i faith and Baha'is themselves annoy you. Baha'is may say something and at times you will criticise (on occasion sternly) what we have to say. That's fine. I still enjoy talking with you and see you as being wise and insightful about many things. I don't see you as having an anti-Baha'i faith agenda or an enemy of the Baha'i Faith and doubt if most Baha'is see you negatively.

I'm not aware the Baha'i writings have anything to say about Sikhism and Jainism. Silence does not mean we believe Sikhism and Jainism as being 'false' religions.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

For starters: Hinduism and the Bahá'í Faith

You can even read on to Chapter 1 if you want.

That opened a can of wombs

Regards Tony

 

[shunyadragon]

The scope of Shoghi Effendi's authority is clearly outlined in Abdu'l-Baha's Will and Testament, Shoghi Effendi himself and the Universal House of Justice. Reflecting the will of Baha'u'llah is not the same as Divine Revelation.

I'm not sure what you mean when you say I don't believe in the Baha'i Faith.

I will correct this, I did not say it was Divine Revelation. I said it was consider scripture reflecting the Will of Baha'u'llah.

 

[shunyadragon]

I think you misread what I said, I put both Druids and Satanism on the list of unlisted. I didn't make any correlation between the two. Just thinking of random faiths not mentioned, and there are many, as you pointed out.

I do not believe that the mentioning of ALL revelations from God, because some ancient religions may not be Revelations. Simply Baha'u'llah taught the Revelation fro the Source is universal with humanity.

 

[Dawnofhope]

I will correct this, I did not say it was Divine Revelation. I said it was consider scripture reflecting the Will of Baha'u'llah.

I agree Shoghi Effendi''s writings specifically in regards the Baha'i Faith reflect the Will of Baha'u'llah. I would be circumspect about referring to Shoghi Effendi's writings as scripture. Even the phrase term Baha'i Writings often does not include Shoghi Effendi.

Shoghi Effendi was very clear about his station:

No Guardian of the Faith, I feel it my solemn duty to place on record, can ever claim to be the perfect exemplar of the teachings of Bahá’u’lláh or the stainless mirror that reflects His light. Though overshadowed by the unfailing, the unerring protection of Bahá’u’lláh and of the Báb, and however much he may share with ‘Abdu’l-Bahá the right and obligation to interpret the Bahá’í teachings, he remains essentially human and cannot, if he wishes to remain faithful to his trust, arrogate to himself, under any pretense whatsoever, the rights, the privileges and prerogatives which Bahá’u’lláh has chosen to confer upon His Son. In the light of this truth to pray to the Guardian of the Faith, to address him as lord and master, to designate him as his holiness, to seek his benediction, to celebrate his birthday, or to commemorate any event associated with his life would be tantamount to a departure from those established truths that are enshrined within our beloved Faith. The fact that the Guardian has been specifically endowed with such power as he may need to reveal the purport and disclose the implications of the utterances of Bahá’u’lláh and of ‘Abdu’l-Bahá does not necessarily confer upon him a station co-equal with those Whose words he is called upon to interpret. He can exercise that right and discharge this obligation and yet remain infinitely inferior to both of them in rank and different in nature.

Bahá'í Reference Library - The World Order of Bahá’u’lláh, Pages 143-157

Edit: Thank you for the correction.

 

[shunyadragon]

That opened a can of wombs

Regards Tony

Probably not much. The text may be not the best, I consider the authors heart in the right place, but the present agenda of those that oppose the Baha'i Faith with the arguments on the table might as well be looking for rabbit fossils in Cambrian rocks,

 

[Vinayaka]

I'm not aware the Baha'i writings have anything to say about Sikhism and Jainism. Silence does not mean we believe Sikhism and Jainism as being 'false' religions.

But that was my point. Nor does it mean you see them as 'true' religions. What it means is that nothing was said. That's all we can conclude. In a sense all religions besides Baha'i are false, certainly not up to date like Baha'i claims to be. The teachings that the former religions were good AT THAT TIME in history is rather evident. In Moomen's paper on Hinduism he said the main purpose for Baha'i with regard to Hinduism was to update it to it's natural conclusion, whatever the heck that means.

 

[Vinayaka]

That opened a can of wombs

Regards Tony

What is a can of wombs? (very odd expression, if you ask me)

 

[Unveiled Artist]

What is a can of wombs? (very odd expression, if you ask me)

"Can of worms". Bringing up an argument or subject that will explode out of proportion. (Had to comment just because)

 

[TransmutingSoul]

What is a can of wombs? (very odd expression, if you ask me)

Quote from the Web, popular saying here in Australia.

"a can of worms. phrase. If you say that someone is opening a can of worms, you are warning them that they are planning to do or talk about something which is much more complicated, unpleasant, or difficult than they realize and which might be better left alone. You've opened up a whole new can of worms here I think."

Regards Tony

 

[Vinayaka]

"Can of worms". Bringing up an argument or subject that will explode out of proportion. (Had to comment just because)

Oh I knew that, but he wrote 'can of wombs'. I thought it may have some hidden meaning in Bahaispeak.

 

[Vinayaka]

Hopefully OP gets something out of this.

 

[Dawnofhope]

But that was my point. Nor does it mean you see them as 'true' religions. What it means is that nothing was said. That's all we can conclude. In a sense all religions besides Baha'i are false, certainly not up to date like Baha'i claims to be. The teachings that the former religions were good AT THAT TIME in history is rather evident. In Moomen's paper on Hinduism he said the main purpose for Baha'i with regard to Hinduism was to update it to it's natural conclusion, whatever the heck that means.

The Baha'i Faith is either based on a Revelation of God or it isn't. If it isn't then it will naturally fade away into obscurity where it belongs. If it is it will flourish. The Baha'i faith has been remarkably adaptable in countries where there are predominantly Muslim or Christian populations. Its easy to build a narrative based on the Christian Bible or the Quran. To what extent the Baha'i Faith proves adept in countries with a predominant Hindu or Buddhist population is another story. What is clear is that Baha'is in whatever locality they reside must have a profound respect and appreciation for the culture and beliefs of the people in their locality. This 'I'm right and your wrong' or 'my religion is true and yours is false' mentality is unhelpful and doesn't reflect the Baha'i writings IMHO. Baha'is need to make a positive contribution to the communities they reside and build bonds of genuine love and fellowship with all.

I'm not sure what Moomen meant either.

 

[shunyadragon]

Oh I knew that, but he wrote 'can of wombs'. I thought it may have some hidden meaning in Bahaispeak.

Oh yeah . . . secret code only understood by more advance alien religions.

 

[Vinayaka]

I'm not sure what Moomen meant either.

Not a strong writer or advocate for Baha'i. Surprised his writings get mentioned so much as valuable resources. Lots of people, (like you for example) could do a better job. To use poor writing to back up some argument is unwise, in my view. But perhaps there is just little else to quote.

 

[shunyadragon]

But that was my point. Nor does it mean you see them as 'true' religions. What it means is that nothing was said. That's all we can conclude. In a sense all religions besides Baha'i are false, certainly not up to date like Baha'i claims to be. The teachings that the former religions were good AT THAT TIME in history is rather evident. In Moomen's paper on Hinduism he said the main purpose for Baha'i with regard to Hinduism was to update it to it's natural conclusion, whatever the heck that means.

Very poor biased rhetoric, and does not reflect the claims of the Baha'i. Baha'is do not judge ancient religions as 'true nor false. Bold is reasonable statement.

 

[Vinayaka]

The Baha'i Faith is either based on a Revelation of God or it isn't. If it isn't then it will naturally fade away into obscurity where it belongs. If it is it will flourish.

Maybe. Maybe not. I don't view Hinduism as being based on a Revelation of God. Revelation, the concept, seems to be more Abrahamic. We haven't died out into obscurity like so many others, and according to your theory we should have ... maybe long ago. Hard to destroy Sanatana Dharma.

edited to add link I had to look up ... Revelation - Wikipedia

 

[Dawnofhope]

Not a strong writer or advocate for Baha'i. Surprised his writings get mentioned so much as valuable resources. Lots of people, (like you for example) could do a better job. To use poor writing to back up some argument is unwise, in my view. But perhaps there is just little else to quote.

We need Hindu Baha'is to write books comparing the Baha'i Faith and Hinduism. Apart from the technical aspects of writing, it would be best to have someone who has grown up Hindu and embraced the Baha'i Faith as an adult but remains closely aligned with Hinduism. I suspect a lot of Baha'is in India would still consider themselves Hindus. I'm an outsider and have never thought of myself as a writer.

 

[Dawnofhope]

Maybe. Maybe not. I don't view Hinduism as being based on a Revelation of God. Revelation, the concept, seems to be more Abrahamic. We haven't died out into obscurity like so many others, and according to your theory we should have ... maybe long ago. Hard to destroy Sanatana Dharma.

edited to add link I had to look up ... Revelation - Wikipedia

Sanatana Dharma can not be destroyed. It has always existed and always will exist IMHO. It can be manifested, hidden or misrepresented, can it not?

 

[Vinayaka]

We need Hindu Baha'is to write books comparing the Baha'i Faith and Hinduism. Apart from the technical aspects of writing, it would be best to have someone who has grown up Hindu and embraced the Baha'i Faith as an adult but remains closely aligned with Hinduism. I suspect a lot of Baha'is in India would still consider themselves Hindus. I'm an outsider and have never thought of myself as a writer.

Sure, but I'm not so sure such a person exists. The one time I read the testimony (can't remember where) of one such person, it was really clear he'd never been a Hindu and was just faking it. People do make these things up you know. Personally, I can't see any serious practicing Hindu converting. Those on the edge, or poor, sure. the uneducated tribals, sure, but then we have to question whether or not it's even a real conversion.