firedragon
Veteran Member
When you cherry pick from someones statement, you could make a snippet, your reality.
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Why Bahai
- Thread starter firedragon
- Start date
When you cherry pick from someones statement, you could make a snippet, your reality.
This post makes no sense at. If you no longer wish to converse, I accept that. You have started an OP asking about the Baha'i Faith. I hope we have been helpful with your enquiries. All the best.
oldbadger
Skanky Old Mongrel!
Name it!
This tyrannical gevernance.
Name it!
What victims?
All I have ever read about Babi and Bahai ideas about history is misinformation.
What tyrants?
What fake news?
Most of the fake news and history is from Bahai imo.
I myself have been accused of 'demonising' when simply showing as much real info about Bahai as possible. I've recently been told that I have brought anti-Bahais to this forum from other sites, or that's what it looked like.
Bahai just seem to dream up their own kind of truth...... but it's spin.
It's quite simple...... A Bahai World would be a very poor and unjust world for so many people.
Oh please! Son't!
We have read some of the Bab's writings, and we know the truth!
Everyone is entitled to have an opinion, even if they are not based on solid facts.
It depends if one wants to find justice.
Regards Tony
Persecution of Baha'is is very real according to many sources other that Baha'i themselves such as the United Nations, Amnesty International, the European Union as well as many sovereign nations.
Persecution of Bahá'ís occurs in various countries, especially in Iran,[1] where the Bahá'í Faith originated, and one of the largest Bahá'í populations in the world is located. The origins of the persecution stem from a variety of Bahá'í teachings which are inconsistent with traditional Islamic beliefs, including the finality of Muhammad's prophethood, and the placement of Bahá'ís outside the Islamic faith.[2][3] Thus, Bahá'ís are seen as apostates from Islam, and, according to some Islamists, must choose between repentance and death.[3]
Bahá'í spokespeople, as well as the United Nations, Amnesty International, the European Union, the United States, and peer-reviewed academic literature have stated that the members of the Bahá'í community in Iran have been subjected to unwarranted arrests, false imprisonment, beatings, torture, unjustified executions, confiscation and destruction of property owned by individuals and the Bahá'í community, denial of employment, denial of government benefits, denial of civil rights and liberties, and denial of access to higher education.
Persecution of Bahá'ís - Wikipedia
Despite being a relatively small religion the Baha'i Faith is subjected to persecution in many countries along with the Zoroastrians and Sikhs.
In general, Christians were persecuted in 143 countries in 2017, compared to 107 in 2007. Muslims were persecuted in 140 countries in 2017, compared to 96 in 2007; Jews, 87 countries compared to 51; Others, encompassing such faiths as Sikhs, Zoroastrians, Baha'i, 50 compared to 33; folk religions, 38 up from 24; Hindus, 23 compared to 21; and Buddhists, 19 up from 10. The unaffiliated were persecuted in 23 countries in 2017, Pew said, compared to 3 in 2012, the earliest year the group was studied.
Pew: Christian, Muslim persecution most widespread
Of course the nations complicit in such persecution as well as many Muslims will deny any persecution, dismiss our claims and continue to vilify and misrepresent us.
Persecution of Bahá'ís occurs in various countries, especially in Iran,[1] where the Bahá'í Faith originated, and one of the largest Bahá'í populations in the world is located. The origins of the persecution stem from a variety of Bahá'í teachings which are inconsistent with traditional Islamic beliefs, including the finality of Muhammad's prophethood, and the placement of Bahá'ís outside the Islamic faith.[2][3] Thus, Bahá'ís are seen as apostates from Islam, and, according to some Islamists, must choose between repentance and death.[3]
Bahá'í spokespeople, as well as the United Nations, Amnesty International, the European Union, the United States, and peer-reviewed academic literature have stated that the members of the Bahá'í community in Iran have been subjected to unwarranted arrests, false imprisonment, beatings, torture, unjustified executions, confiscation and destruction of property owned by individuals and the Bahá'í community, denial of employment, denial of government benefits, denial of civil rights and liberties, and denial of access to higher education.
Persecution of Bahá'ís - Wikipedia
Despite being a relatively small religion the Baha'i Faith is subjected to persecution in many countries along with the Zoroastrians and Sikhs.
In general, Christians were persecuted in 143 countries in 2017, compared to 107 in 2007. Muslims were persecuted in 140 countries in 2017, compared to 96 in 2007; Jews, 87 countries compared to 51; Others, encompassing such faiths as Sikhs, Zoroastrians, Baha'i, 50 compared to 33; folk religions, 38 up from 24; Hindus, 23 compared to 21; and Buddhists, 19 up from 10. The unaffiliated were persecuted in 23 countries in 2017, Pew said, compared to 3 in 2012, the earliest year the group was studied.
Pew: Christian, Muslim persecution most widespread
Of course the nations complicit in such persecution as well as many Muslims will deny any persecution, dismiss our claims and continue to vilify and misrepresent us.
firedragon
Veteran Member
Thanks.
firedragon
Veteran Member
You have not understood. You are making an assumption about what submission or SLM Silm means in the Quran without reading the book. If you form an opinion thats fine but don't claim that opinion is what is said in a book. Your claim was this is what is this so called submission is according to the Quran. think a bit. If you have never read the book, you should not make claims of the sort and then claim its just your opinion. But many people do make opinions based on third party hearsay. Whats most important is when someone tells you that you are wrong, you should have the humility to correct your opinion or study the book and make your own informed opinion.
It seems like you dont intend to make any study but stick to your opinion even if a person shows you. Make study. Dont believe anyone. Make your own study by studying the book. Not based on hearsay.
I wish you well.
oldbadger
Skanky Old Mongrel!
No..... you had no solid facts to offer Tony.
You make claims about tyrants and then just collapse in to rhetoric.
Everything about Baha'i is like that.
It will take some listening.
firedragon
Veteran Member
I saw it on the list of titles. I didnt know it was available online like this. Thanks a lot. Must give it a good read.
That is assumption without obtaining facts.
Thus any opinion from there is based on that assumption.
Regards Tony
Regards Tony
I agree and it is your thread as to 'Why Baha' i'? Thus you will get a Baha'i viewpoint on the Quran. The fact I was inspired to read the Quran was because of the Messages of both the Bab and Baha'u'llah, that should give some food for thought.
The Muslim clergy had a hard time with the explanations given by the Bab and Baha'u'llah, though they could never refute the validity of the argument. I expect many will still have the same Issues. Allah's Will is world embracing, it always has been and Muslims have failed to let go of names and find Allah's all embracing Will. I see that Muhammad and the Quran are enshrined in all the Messengers Revelations that Allah has gifted mankind.
Thus the submission I have currently learned is standing firm in that Will, regardless of the consequence, regardless how others may view that stance.
I agree I lack humility, I see I will always be a work in progress. Submission is harder to learn in adult life, if as a child you were not taught the concept.
Regards Tony
firedragon
Veteran Member
Peace
firedragon
Veteran Member
When I spoke of humility I was quoting the Quran. Everything I said about submissions as you called it, I was quoting the Quran. Everything. None of what I said is my opinion.
Thus please dont speak of your personal humility because I have asked and you have responded a lot, and you have humility. And I respect that. I was quoting the Quran brother, I was not speaking about you. Because you are a humble person.
The eye witness accounts are available and have been previously posted.
I see one would try to find them and read them if they were looking for facts and not just a pointless RF debate. Some of those eyewitness accounts are not by Baha'i.
That is fair, is it not OB, Regards Tony
That is very good. One of our failings is to study the Quran in detail, we are encouraged to do so. I see the problem is our priorities in life, so many years wasted in trivial pursuits.
As such one has to choose what they will study. For me I chose the Baha'i Writings, as I see they contain all that was offered in the Quran.
Thus it could be we talk of the same submission, but from different frames of references. I agreed with what you previously offered. I see good deeds and righteous actions are all component parts of submission to Allah. I see submission to what the world offers, is not submission to Allah.
I have read the Bible before the Quran and found the Quran more akin to the old Testament, more solid as a Law based Faith. Thus my references to the Quran is now looking up quotes.
Sorry if I have offended and frustrated you. Faith is a passion, hard to balance in a world that mostly does not want the Will of Allah. But that is changing.
Peace always.
Regards Tony
CG Didymus
Veteran Member
I don't know if you've ever read this: "A Modest Proposal: Recommendations Toward the Revitalization of the American Baha'i Community". Here's some excepts:
"No objective observer could fail to recognize the signal growth and maturation of the American Baha'i community since its inception 91 years ago... (This was 1988)… However, there is clear and compelling evidence that the fortunes of the United States Baha'i community have stagnated... In the 1960s and early '70s,10,000 declarations a year, many among young people, were not unusual. Since 1974, enrollments have hovered around the 3,000 per year level... Youth declarations have dropped...19,000 Baha'i youth in the American Baha'i community in the peak year (1971) has declined to a total of 2,800 in 1987...(A)lmost 50 percent of our community are "address unknown"-a figure that likely indicates increasing inactivity and alienation among the believers...These are serious and troubling matters. But they are not new, nor are they insurmountable... The purpose of this essay is to attempt a beginning at the discussion of potential remedies for our plight."
The article goes on to list the problems and suggest solutions. At the end of the article the editor added:
"This article never appeared in print. The editors submitted it for "review" (in-house official Baha'i prepublication censorship) to the National Spiritual Assembly of the United States, and actually met with two members of that body in the spring of 1988. At National Convention in April 1988, the authors and editors were condemned for even thinking about publishing such a document. The editors, heart-broken, ceased publication of Dialogue. - Ed."
I'm beginning to think that the problem with these Baha'is that published the "Dialogue" magazine and Baha'is like Juan Cole were too progressive for the Baha'i Faith. The religion sounds so good, things like abolishing racial and gender prejudices and proposing a more equitable economic system. But the main purpose of the Baha'i Faith seems to be to get more people to sign a declaration card saying they believe in Baha'u'llah. Then the people get lost in a bureaucratic religious system.
This leads to the proselytizing problem. Baha'is used to say that Baha'is are "found" not "made". Their attitude was almost like they expected to mention the name "Baha'u'llah" and the things the Baha'i Faith stands for, like the oneness of religion, the oneness of man, and the oneness of God, and people would join up. And they did.
But then comes the boring stuff. The actual workings of the Baha'i Faith. It has a lot of administrative things they do, even at the local level. Each community has a meeting every 19 days. At the meeting they are supposed to come up with ideas on how to further "God's Cause". How to reach people in their city or town. Of course, since proselytizing is prohibited, it is called "teaching". They had to find ways to locate those people that are already Baha'is... they just didn't know it yet. I was one of those people, and two times I got involved with them and almost bought into it... almost. This is my third time. And, since I have the freedom to question and ask anything I want, some Baha'i see me like they see you... a hostile enemy of their religion. Here I thought it was just personally investigating the things they say are true.
CG Didymus
Veteran Member
That's great for the Quran and your Baha'i writings, but would you have submitted to the laws in the Bible that require the stoning of the people that break those laws? Or, since Baha'is believe a lot of the Bible is meant to be symbolic... is that only a "spiritual" stoning?
Yes I do recall reading all that a while back.