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Why atheists are not as rational as some like to think

Cooky

Veteran Member
I found this information to be very informative concerning the atheist mind. What do you think of this:

Many atheists think that their atheism is the product of rational thinking. They use arguments such as "I don't believe in God, I believe in science" to explain that evidence and logic, rather than supernatural belief and dogma, underpin their thinking. But just because you believe in evidence-based, scientific research – which is subject to strict checks and procedures – doesn't mean that your mind works in the same way.

The science of atheism

The problem that any rational thinker needs to tackle, though, is that the science increasingly shows that atheists are no more rational than theists. Indeed, atheists are just as susceptible as the next person to "group-think" and other non-rational forms of cognition. For example, religious and nonreligious people alike can end up following charismatic individuals without questioning them. And our minds often prefer righteousness over truth, as the social psychologist Jonathan Haidt has explored.



https://www.google.com/amp/s/phys.org/news/2018-09-atheists-rational.amp
 

Nakosis

Non-Binary Physicalist
Premium Member
I found this information to be very informative concerning the atheist mind. What do you think of this:

Many atheists think that their atheism is the product of rational thinking. They use arguments such as "I don't believe in God, I believe in science" to explain that evidence and logic, rather than supernatural belief and dogma, underpin their thinking. But just because you believe in evidence-based, scientific research – which is subject to strict checks and procedures – doesn't mean that your mind works in the same way.

The science of atheism

The problem that any rational thinker needs to tackle, though, is that the science increasingly shows that atheists are no more rational than theists. Indeed, atheists are just as susceptible as the next person to "group-think" and other non-rational forms of cognition. For example, religious and nonreligious people alike can end up following charismatic individuals without questioning them. And our minds often prefer righteousness over truth, as the social psychologist Jonathan Haidt has explored.



https://www.google.com/amp/s/phys.org/news/2018-09-atheists-rational.amp

As I see it, I lack a rational reason to believe in God.
So if I see myself as irrational, it only supports the previous statement.
I certainly wouldn't depend on my irrational thinking to support a belief in God.
Of course a person is free to depend on their irrational thinking to believe in a God but I wouldn't expect the best results when doing so. :D

Science tries to limit irrational thinking. It's success in doing that varies.
 
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Cooky

Veteran Member
As I see it, I lack a rational reason to believe in God.
So if I see myself as irrational, it only supports the previous statement.
I certainly wouldn't depend on my irrational thinking to support a belief in God.
Of course a person is free to depend on their irrational thinking to believe in a God but I wouldn't expect the best results when doing so. :D

Science tries to limit irrational thinking. It's success in doing that varies.

But studies show that atheists are just as prone to take part in "group-think" as well as following "charismatic individuals" just as readily as theistic people... So they don’t *actually* possess rational thinking.
 
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Cooky

Veteran Member
Were you thinking there was something special about atheists? We are all just humans here.

There have been threads in the past where atheists took great pride in a statistic that supposedly 'proved' with facts that atheists has a higher IQ than the religious. They took great joy in rubbing that in peoples noses... Do you remember it?

Today, I'm here to show everyone something that I found.
 

Mock Turtle

Oh my, did I say that!
Premium Member
But studies show that atheists are just as prone to take part in "group-think" as well as following "charismatic individuals" just as readily as theistic people... So they don’t *actually* possess rational thinking.

No more than any religious person thinking their particular religion is the correct answer. :rolleyes:
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
There have been threads in the past where atheists took great pride in a statistic that supposedly 'proved' with facts that atheists has a higher IQ than the religious. They took great joy in rubbing that in peoples noses... Do you remember it?

Today, I'm here to show everyone something that I found.
I too am annoyed by people who chortle & brag about how much better they are than others.
Trying to prove they're smarter, more educated, & more moral....
Liberals vs conservatives
Atheists vs believers
Northerners (US) vs southerners.
Socialists vs capitalists
 

Deidre

Well-Known Member
There have been threads in the past where atheists took great pride in a statistic that supposedly 'proved' with facts that atheists has a higher IQ than the religious. They took great joy in rubbing that in peoples noses... Do you remember it?

Today, I'm here to show everyone something that I found.
As long as your beliefs are rational to you, and bring you peace, it is probably healthier to let go of the atheist vs theist (one over the other) is smarter/more rational argument. That said, I've seen tons of threads, blogs and articles all over the internet about the topic. (usually atheists disparaging theists when it comes to intelligence and so on) Jesus suffered this too, having discussions with those who use secular wisdom to challenge Him. It's interesting how the times have changed since then, but not our human hearts (and minds).
 

lewisnotmiller

Grand Hat
Staff member
Premium Member
I too am annoyed by people who chortle & brag about how much better they are than others.
Trying to prove they're smarter, more educated, & more moral....
Liberals vs conservatives
Atheists vs believers
Northerners (US) vs southerners.
Socialists vs capitalists

Yep. I've argued as much many a time here. For some reason, some people like to cherry-pick arguments from the 'other side' and then use that to extrapolate and over-generalise.
Perhaps it helps them believe in their own side more easily. Perhaps it just helps simplify a sometimes complicated and confusing world. Perhaps we need to draw easy to swallow conclusions that fit into 140 characters these days.

For me, mostly, I find binary thinking pretty ridiculous.

Unless we're arguing about the Celtics versus the Lakers, of course. But I guess every rule needs an exception to prove it.
 

lewisnotmiller

Grand Hat
Staff member
Premium Member
As long as your beliefs are rational to you, and bring you peace, it is probably healthier to let go of the atheist vs theist (one over the other) is smarter/more rational argument. That said, I've seen tons of threads, blogs and articles all over the internet about the topic. (usually atheists disparaging theists when it comes to intelligence and so on) Jesus suffered this too, having discussions with those who use secular wisdom to challenge Him. It's interesting how the times have changed since then, but not our human hearts (and minds).

Depends what you google.
Squeaky hinges show up first, but there is more nuanced discussion available if that is what you're looking for.

Personally I struggle to understand what 'secular wisdom' is, but would agree human hearts and minds have not changed greatly.
What was wise in the past is (for the most part) wise today.
And wisdom is rarely held in group think, or the top ten hits of a google search.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Yep. I've argued as much many a time here. For some reason, some people like to cherry-pick arguments from the 'other side' and then use that to extrapolate and over-generalise.
Perhaps it helps them believe in their own side more easily. Perhaps it just helps simplify a sometimes complicated and confusing world. Perhaps we need to draw easy to swallow conclusions that fit into 140 characters these days.

For me, mostly, I find binary thinking pretty ridiculous.

Unless we're arguing about the Celtics versus the Lakers, of course. But I guess every rule needs an exception to prove it.
I also imagine that loopy over-reaching claims from
one group are most memorable to an opposing group.
This can distort one's perspective.
 

lewisnotmiller

Grand Hat
Staff member
Premium Member
I also imagine that loopy over-reaching claims from
one group are most memorable to an opposing group.
This can distort one's perspective.

Yes, that can be true. They can appear representative, whereas we know the loopy ones from our own group are 'outliers'.
 

lewisnotmiller

Grand Hat
Staff member
Premium Member
Your group must then be all "outliers".

I'm not sure if you know, but I'm a Psychology major. It's a dirty secret I rarely admit to, since I saw a lot of people take Psych thinking it would let them read people's minds, or something.

In any case, some of the research on social norms are kinda interesting on this. Basically, if my whole group are outliers, then normal behaviour is to act in a fashion which would be abnormal to people not belonging to my group.

And yes, I realise you probably already know this, and that I'm responding too serious to a joke I actually chuckled at. But I haven't had a beer today, and it's almost midnight. Not even one.

Still...it does explain how some groups are able to reinforce behaviour which appears strange to others without even needing much ability to sanction things, apart from a disapproving state, or a slow shake of the head.
 

HonestJoe

Well-Known Member
I found this information to be very informative concerning the atheist mind. What do you think of this:
It isn't talking about "the atheist mind", it's talking about the human mind. The clear take-away of this to me is that we all essentially think in the same way but we're all individuals due to subtle differences in psychology and life experience.

The article does slip in to the error of failing to differentiate between "some Xs sometimes do this" and "Xs do this!". I'm not convinced anything it says definitively proves atheists or theists/religious people are all significantly more or less likely to exhibit any particular characteristic or behaviour. Some studies my show some tenancies but I'm not convinced the simplistic binary distinctions between the two groups are distinct enough to say anything meaningful.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
I'm not sure if you know, but I'm a Psychology major. It's a dirty secret I rarely admit to, since I saw a lot of people take Psych thinking it would let them read people's minds, or something.

In any case, some of the research on social norms are kinda interesting on this. Basically, if my whole group are outliers, then normal behaviour is to act in a fashion which would be abnormal to people not belonging to my group.

And yes, I realise you probably already know this, and that I'm responding too serious to a joke I actually chuckled at. But I haven't had a beer today, and it's almost midnight. Not even one.

Still...it does explain how some groups are able to reinforce behaviour which appears strange to others without even needing much ability to sanction things, apart from a disapproving state, or a slow shake of the head.
You're always serious though.
Wasn't there even a thread about your having no sense of humor?
You Aussiestanians are known for your nose to the grindstone,
workaholic, why-so-serious, stern, no-partying, prim & proper ways.
 
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