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Featured Why atheists and agnostics come to this forum?

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by Rabbi Daniel, Jan 7, 2020.

  1. ArtieE

    ArtieE Well-Known Member

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    To try to make the world a better place by promoting the use of logic, reason and common sense and the scientific method over faith and belief. To try to stamp out ignorance wherever it exists.
     
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  2. HonestJoe

    HonestJoe Well-Known Member

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    What special treatment. A theist could complain about public displays of religion and the complaint would be given exactly the same consideration. In fact, in the USA, I suspect a Christian complaining about a non-Christian religious display could well get more traction that an atheist (or anyone else) complaining about a Christian one.
     
  3. BilliardsBall

    BilliardsBall Well-Known Member

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    I agree, regarding some. Others love the attention, and conflict. They need healing IMHO.
     
  4. Rabbi Daniel

    Rabbi Daniel Member

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    So if some were believers when they arrive , and then became non believers, what am I supposed to become?:)
    I am a Rabbi, man!:)
     
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  5. Conscious thoughts

    Conscious thoughts Living life in silence, observing.

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    You would Benefit from remain a good rabbi :) dont let atheists get under your skin :)
    They tried that on me :D
     
  6. It Aint Necessarily So

    It Aint Necessarily So Well-Known Member
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    Yes. That is the chief reason to be on a religious forum - to examine the thoughts of the religious and the way that faith affects thought and decisions.

    I describe this activity as atheist school, which has both a lecture and a lab section. Examining the believers and tapping the glass so to speak is the best view of religion (which essentially means Christianity) available to outsiders.

    Here, I have extended exchanges with believers that go on for years in some cases, and always more candid than would be the case face-to-face. I don't get that anywhere else.

    The lecture part of atheist school is all of the helpful posting about science, mathematics, and philosophy. It is here that I learned most of what I know about climate science, for example - another bonus of participation.

    Other benefits of participation are the opportunity to improve one's writing skills, and to hone reasoning and argument crafting skills, including plenty of opportunity to identify and name logical fallacies.

    Plus, It's entertaining.
     
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  7. Heyo

    Heyo Well-Known Member

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    You wouldn't be the first and not the last rabbi to turn atheist.
    But if you haven't become an atheist during your studies, you have already overcome most of the obstacles and there are no new facts we can tell you that make you change your mind.
    However, you might learn about other points of view and how they are internally consistent.
     
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  8. Ouroboros

    Ouroboros Coincidentia oppositorum
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    I think it's more about interest, curiosity, a need to understand and get to the bottom of things.

    It's like a detective searching for the truth in a crime. If the detective is investigating a murder, it doesn't make him/her a murderer or wanting to murder someone, they're just looking for truth and understanding. This drive exists for a lot of people in many areas, and it doesn't necessarily make someone that what they're looking at.

    Take my wife watching the DIY channels, how to build houses and such. It's an interest, but she doesn't show any interest in building or remodeling or flipping houses as a career.

    Do historians interested in history of war wanting to go to war? Do people reading books about quantum mechanics necessarily want to become physicists? Do a person building toy train sets wanting to build real trains?

    Having an interest and a need to understand something isn't the same as wanting to become what they're looking at.
     
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  9. HonestJoe

    HonestJoe Well-Known Member

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    Well aren't you meant to be a guide rather than a follower then? Why should what (some) other people do here influence what you do?

    You still seem bound to the idea that there are classes of people who will all act the same. The key point is that it doesn't matter whether we're atheist or theist and it doesn't matter what religion we follow (or don't). Every single poster is an individual. Every single poster is here for their own person reasons. Every single poster will be influenced by reading and posting here in their own unique way.
     
  10. Daemon Sophic

    Daemon Sophic Avatar in flux

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    No.
    As others have discussed, mainly we come to see what and why believers believe. Atheists and agnostics are after all, on average, more informed about religious doctrine and beliefs than most of those professing adherence to those doctrine. ;)

    To see and perhaps understand what drives believers to their tenuous positions is amusing/informative/worthy of knowing/and useful for 1. justifying and solidifying our outlooks. 2. helping us discuss religion and defend our positions against uninformed and often devious proselytizers. even 3. understanding and discussing political motivations based upon religious dogma.

    Also, please recognize that this forum is well moderated and has entertainment and political, as well as general (non-religious) discussions/debates. :)


    That is entirely up to you. But of course keeping a faith just because you were told to/trained to/raised to....even in the face of evidence against it....would be foolish to say the least, eh?

    ’An unexamined life is not worth living‘, just as an unexamined and/or indefensible faith is equally unworthy. ;)
    I joined as an agnostic many years ago, and remain one still.
     
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  11. viole

    viole Metaphysical Naturalist
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    Well, my answer should be obvious.

    I do not believe in the existence of any spiritual reality whatsoever.

    And the fact that I like debating people with different views, as all debates usually are, does not invalidate that premise at all.

    Ciao

    - viole
     
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  12. Rabbi Daniel

    Rabbi Daniel Member

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    Also, please recognize that this forum is well moderated and has entertainment and political, as well as general (non-religious) discussions/debates.
    Good point. Maybe I should have said why they come to the religious section.
    But I didnt criticize anybody. I think I was quite respectful.
    I love everybody <3
     
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  13. viole

    viole Metaphysical Naturalist
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    in North Europe it is not uncommon to have pastors who admit to not really believe in gods. Tyey are mainly not realist theologians identifying God with an abstract concept, and not a person somewhere in heaven watching at us. So, i do not see any logical barrier against atheistic Rabbis.

    ciao

    - viole
     
    #73 viole, Jan 8, 2020
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2020
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  14. Daemon Sophic

    Daemon Sophic Avatar in flux

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    I don’t think that I ever suggested that you had criticized another, and yes, you seem quite pleasantly respectful.

    Welcome to the forum Rabbi. Have some Kosher Double Chocolate Fudge Brownies!

    [​IMG]
     
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  15. shmogie

    shmogie Well-Known Member

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    Their purpose, in many cases, is to ridicule, demean, and otherwise argue with believers.

    This is in harmony with the principles of the new atheist philosophy as stated by their philosophical leaders, they want to eliminate belief in any God/s and feel the chosen tactics may somehow bring that about.

    Since they are from Western countries with Christian traditions, their criticism is centered around Christianity. Nevertheless, they equally are upset by believers in any gods.

    If you are having a summer barbeque, the mosquitoes will show up.

    This is not to detract from the atheists who are here to learn, and communicate.

    Read the posts, and it is easy to identify the arrogant angry ones.

    I think you have made an excellent point. I suspect that some atheists do actually want to believe, but cannot.
     
  16. shmogie

    shmogie Well-Known Member

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    A pastor who does not believe in God is like a monkey who hates bananas, not to mention being a lying hypocrite who takes money under false pretenses. From my perspective, it would be the same for an atheist rabbi.
     
  17. Rabbi Daniel

    Rabbi Daniel Member

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    :grinning::grinning::grinning:
     
  18. shmogie

    shmogie Well-Known Member

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    Here you go Rabbi, as I posted, a new atheist in a forum called RELIGIOUS, with a very clear agenda, to eliminate believers like you and I, by eliminating what we believe in. You and I are ignorant and by logic (logic, in which I have some training, and logic cannot eliminate God), and by reason ( we are unreasonable) and common sense ( we have none) and the scientific method, the scientific method is to become our new god.

    Be aware that those atheists like this are always lurking, and will happily crash a purely theological discussion ( of which they rarely know much) and to try and change the subject whereby they can employ their attacks to try and display what they think is the idiocy of believers.

    Be aware, and do not let yourself be intimidated by them,

    Of course you can avoid them by staying in groups where they cannot enter.

    I personally am not particularly concerned with avoiding them.
     
  19. ArtieE

    ArtieE Well-Known Member

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    It is believers like you who have been trying to eliminate Jews for thousands of years.
    "…two millennia of Christian ideas and prejudices, (with) their impact on Christians’ behavior, appear to be the major basis of antisemitism and of the apex of antisemitism, the Holocaust.” And historian Robert S. Wistrich agrees: “Without the irrational beliefs inculcated by centuries of Christian dogma…Hitler’s anti-Semitism and the echo which it found throughout Europe would have been inconceivable.”
    Anti-Judaism in Christian History
     
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  20. viole

    viole Metaphysical Naturalist
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    false pretenses? Those pastors admit officially that they do not believe in God. Yet, they still have an active congregation. You know, going to church, meeting friends, hear what the pastor says, etc. does not entail believing that supernatural implausible things, anymore. At least here in Europe.

    One pastor in the Netherlands even wrote a book about his atheism. I think his motto was “ I believe in a God who does not exist”. The church decided to retain him, because they actually found out that many members of the protestant church in the Netherlands are holding similar views. It is estimated that about one in six pastors there are either atheist or agnostics.

    ciao

    - viole
     
    #80 viole, Jan 8, 2020
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