Why Aren't You Praying to End COVID-19?

[Wandering Monk]

Interesting that you throw my question back, if you were confident you'd answer it. Anyway,

All those people who prayed for a Trump victory.
My religious friend who prayed for her husband and he still died.

More here...
When Prayer Fails

And the answer to this I hear most often, blames the petitioner for not having enough faith. God is thus let off the hook for his apathy.

 

[Altfish]

You believe this, I know the truth. That is the difference
IF believing so makes you happy THEN I am happy for you

I follow RF Rule #8; I am not trying to convert you away from your convictions:

I asked for an example - you evaded,then asked me for one (which I gave a few) - then still failed to give an example.
What else am I to assume other than - Prayer doesn't work???

 

[stvdv]

I asked for an example

True

you evaded

True

then asked me for one

Not True

(which I gave a few)

I have seen you replying to @chinu and giving a few examples

then still failed to give an example

I did not fail. I feel no need/urge to prove something. Prayer is between me and God. Sai Baba's first lesson to me was "no exhibitionism"

What else am I to assume other than - Prayer doesn't work???

I am fine if others "don't believe in prayer or in God or ...."
For me prayer works
For you prayer does not work
That's all there is to it IMO

 

[Altfish]

True

True

Not True

I have seen you replying to @chinu and giving a few examples

I did not fail. I feel no need/urge to prove something. Prayer is between me and God. Sai Baba's first lesson to me was "no exhibitionism"

I am fine if others "don't believe in prayer or in God or ...."
For me prayer works
For you prayer does not work
That's all there is to it IMO

Apologies, I'm mixing up my responses

 

[rrobs]

Stating we'd have more cases than we have now is pure speculation, unless of course you have data to back this up.

Absolutely true, as is the fact that, due to lack of data, we don't know prayer isn't working. In other words, it is speculation whichever way we look at it. As such the entire OP is meaningless.

Also, it's useful to learn that you only have a small circle of people you actually care about.

So based upon one small sentence, you know I only care about a few people? So many people here love science out of one side of their mouth and out of the other they spew totally unscientific conclusions.

 

[rrobs]

Why not all and not some?

If prayer works as in making the illness "poof" why not cure them all?

Why not cure all illnesses regardless of what they are, whether we can treat them, and how old they've been around?

You don't understand healing in the scriptures. The one healed must believe. Someone else can pray for them, but ultimately the sick must believe for their own healing. Otherwise the one praying would overrule the free will of the one prayed for.

Matt 13:58,

And he did not many mighty works there because of their unbelief.​

Prayer helps with the mind and solace in a situation-but working? Doesn't that depend on the beholder?

Of course it does. In this world, what doesn't depend on the beholder?

 

[Unveiled Artist]

You don't understand healing in the scriptures. The one healed must believe. Someone else can pray for them, but ultimately the sick must believe for their own healing. Otherwise the one praying would overrule the free will of the one prayed for.

Belief doesn't heal. If belief healed, everyone would be cured of illnesses and it wouldn't matter what one's religion is since having belief to cure doesn't depend on the religion a person takes up.

This even works when one prays for themselves. Thousands of people who are sick pray themselves cured. The same logic whether praying for someone or praying for oneself, if prayer worked in the manner of gaining a result because of the prayer, it wouldn't be religiously biased.

Unless we, cough, know the abrahamic god exists, we can only suspect that prayers for others and oneself depends is like meditation. It doesn't cure the illness but it does help the people who, with their loved ones, are going through it.

Of course it does. In this world, what doesn't depend on the beholder?

Exactly. When someone says "prayer works" we are assuming if you pray for someone with a terminal illness, that prayer will be answered (without-rather-the clause if it does not, it's god's timing and if it does, praise god). People from all parts of the world in all different religions pray-so, "it working" would not be a good way to put it. Maybe praying is more putting in the process of healing. Medicine not a cure.

 

[stvdv]

You don't understand healing in the scriptures. The one healed must believe.

Not necessarily true. God can heal someone, even without someone believing in God
This happened to me. Only once of course (being healed without believing in God)

 

[rrobs]

Not necessarily true. God can heal someone, even without someone believing in God
This happened to me. Only once of course (being healed without believing in God)

Jesus asked several people who wanted healing if they believed they could actually be healed. It was only after they said something like, "Lord, I believe" that the healing took place.

Yes, people can be healed without believing God. Even dogs get healed of sickness and disease. It's a part of nature that God included in all living things. But there are some things considered fatal or crippling, stage 4 thyroid cancer for example. All the "scientific" evidence tells us that such a malady is fatal, we therefore believe it, and end up dying. On the other hand, if one dismisses the "scientific" evidence and believes God can heal them, they can defy the science. I thought those are the kinds of things we're talking about.

In any case, I'm glad God healed you. God loves all people despite their unbelief, and there is such a thing as grace which is undeserved favor, i.e. God can give even to those who technically don't deserve it. I'm not saying you in particular did not deserve your healing or anything else. Not knowing much, if anything, about you, I have no idea about that one way or the other. I just know that both God and His son, Jesus both love you very much. Heck, Jesus was tortured for about 40 hours (Bible says worse than any other man) and only after that did they crucify him. He was stuck on the cross for 6 hours of unimaginable pain and torture. He did it because he loves you and he wants you to enjoy everlasting life on the new earth that is to come. It'll be even better than the original Garden of Eden. I'd give serious consideration to taking him up on his offer.

Rom 10:9-10,

9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.​

 

[stvdv]

I thought those are the kinds of things we're talking about.

I was

I'm not saying you in particular did not deserve your healing or anything else.

Who does deserve in this age? I consider all God's Healing God's Grace.

I just know that both God and His son, Jesus both love you very much

I know Sai Baba and Jesus both love me

I'd give serious consideration to taking him up on his offer.

I have Sai Baba, and that is more than enough for me

 

[rrobs]

I have Sai Baba, and that is more than enough for me

Very good.

Quick question: I know he was a holy man, but was Sai Baba killed and raised from the dead? I don't think so, but just want to make sure I'm not misinformed.

Take care.

 

[stvdv]

Very good.

Quick question: I know he was a holy man, but was Sai Baba killed and raised from the dead? I don't think so, but just want to make sure I'm not misinformed.

Take care.

IMHO:

Quick answer: IF you ask this to Jesus AND Jesus replies THEN you will be in for a big surprise

 

[chinu]

All those people who prayed for a Trump victory.

But, again here -- the people who prayed for Biden -- outnumbered who prayed for Trump

My religious friend who prayed for her husband and he still died.

Died by what ? any disease ? tell me, so that I could answer appropriately.

 

[Altfish]

But, again here -- the people who prayed for Biden -- outnumbered who prayed for Trump

Died by what ? any disease ? tell me, so that I could answer appropriately.

But that just shows the folly of prayer, obviously there are people praying for different outcomes when it is to do with politics, sport, etc.

My friend died of COVID

 

[chinu]

But that just shows the folly of prayer, obviously there are people praying for different outcomes when it is to do with politics, sport, etc.

Prayer also depends on -- how much time is devoted for prayer.
For example: One hour of prayer by one person = One minute of prayer done by 60 people.

Second: If the question is what is prayer ?
When any person try his/her level best to do, or achieve something -- that time -- an automatic whims start coming out from the body of such person. These whims is/are true prayer. Whims/prayer automatically start coming out from the body, no matter theist, or atheist.

My friend died of COVID

For sure, struggling to stay alive = whims/prayer that came out of your friends body -- even family members, friends. But sadly, this time COVID-19 bacteria struggling for food and shelter win the task.

 

[Altfish]

Prayer also depends on -- how much time is devoted for prayer.
For example: One hour of prayer by one person = One minute of prayer done by 60 people.

Second: If the question is what is prayer ?
When any person try his/her level best to do, or achieve something -- that time -- an automatic whims start coming out from the body of such person. These whims is/are true prayer. Whims/prayer automatically start coming out from the body, no matter theist, or atheist. .

Aaah! The "You didn't pray hard enough" argument. Or in the 'right' way

For sure, struggling to stay alive = whims/prayer that came out of your friends body -- even family members, friends. But sadly, this time COVID-19 bacteria struggling for food and shelter win the task.

God works in mysterious ways

 

[stvdv]

Prayer also depends on -- how much time is devoted for prayer.
For example: One hour of prayer by one person = One minute of prayer done by 60 people.

Disclaimer: Below is my opinion, what I have learned and experienced about prayer

1) Repeat 1 mala (108 times) mantra (e.g. Ohm) is only needed IF I can't manage to do "1 proper Ohm" at once
2) Many people do group praying, but when it's just multi-loudspeakers it won't work; it must be my 'heart-felt' prayer
3) IF I am desperate and cry out in NEED, prayer works best (But Surrender is a tough one for me, as I like to stay in control)
4) IF I pray to God for Help, but all the while suggesting God what to do, it doesn't work; I don't do that when going to my surgeon !!!
5) When the ride is easy, I easily forget to pray, hence no experience "how to pray". Better to practise and start early, drive slowly to reach safely

I see God's Grace as a kind of Love-affair. Usually girls are not interested if a guy is boring, not showing interest, demanding etc.etc. (or they must be very desperate). My relationship with God is similar. The more effort I put in my relationship, the more I get out of it. Seems logical & fair too.

*) Many more, but these 5 come to mind now

 

[sayak83]

I'm assuming none of you are praying that COVID-19 ends, because it's still here and the cases are mounting?

So why aren't you praying?

Is Covid 19 not a consequence of indiscrimate destruction and consumption of wildlife that led to greater human and wild animal contact/conflict.Was it not exacerbated by stupid policies of democratically elected world leaders? Was not a pandemic predicted by disease experts for over 20 years?
Why would any being intervene into entirely predictable consequences of our consumption driven globalized lifestyles?

 

[stvdv]

Is Covid 19 not a consequence of indiscrimate destruction and consumption of wildlife that led to greater human and wild animal contact/conflict.Was it not exacerbated by stupid policies of democratically elected world leaders? Was not a pandemic predicted by disease experts for over 20 years?
Why would any being intervene into entirely predictable consequences of our consumption driven globalized lifestyles?

Exactly my idea too

IMHO:

"God/Divine" is Goodness ... and acts not stupid (acts Dharmic; so to speak)
"Human" is Goodness ... but acts stupid (acts Adharmic)

Expecting the Divine to solve human's own stupidity (Adharmic mess)
Makes no sense to me, and this goes against my common sense

 

[rrobs]

IMHO:

Quick answer: IF you ask this to Jesus AND Jesus replies THEN you will be in for a big surprise

Well, I asked Google and he said that Sai Baba resurrected himself.

BTW, the IF-AND-THEN construct reminds me of computer programming.