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Why aren't those who claimed to be upset about Russia complaining about China

whirlingmerc

Well-Known Member
There was non stop complaints about alleged meddling of Russia with the US and now it appears China has not been forthright about the virus, warning other countries as a good international neighbor.

Going forward it seems at best inconsistent

Are there lessons learned for liberals, conservatives, and the US, Russia and China relations?
 

Terry Sampson

Well-Known Member
"Why aren't those who claimed to be upset about Russia complaining about China"
There was non stop complaints about alleged meddling of Russia with the US and now it appears China has not been forthright about the virus, warning other countries as a good international neighbor.
Hmmm, .... "intentional, nefarious meddling" = "intentional, deceptive B.S." ????

Yeah, Evil Knievel might have been able to make that leap. But he was nuts! I'm not going to try.
 

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
here was non stop complaints about alleged meddling of Russia with the US and now it appears China has not been forthright about the virus, warning other countries as a good international neighbor.

Going forward it seems at best inconsistent

Are there lessons learned for liberals, conservatives, and the US, Russia and China relations?

I don't see anything new. Relations will always be strained between the three IMO

Don't fall into the RW bubble of the new conspiracy of blaming China and the WHO for Trumps failures.

YES! Let's just go with the NEW conspiracy blaming Trump for everything.

Oh wait, that has always been happening!
 

Polymath257

Think & Care
Staff member
Premium Member
There was non stop complaints about alleged meddling of Russia with the US and now it appears China has not been forthright about the virus, warning other countries as a good international neighbor.

Going forward it seems at best inconsistent

Are there lessons learned for liberals, conservatives, and the US, Russia and China relations?

China *has* been criticized for not being more open about this virus. On the other hand, they were caught off-guard just as much as the rest of the world.

The big difference is that Russia *intentionally and deliberately meddled in our internal elections*.

China, on the other hand, failed to understand the magnitude of the problem and to let others know of its mistakes early and openly.

I see a big difference between the two.
 

esmith

Veteran Member
China *has* been criticized for not being more open about this virus. On the other hand, they were caught off-guard just as much as the rest of the world.

The big difference is that Russia *intentionally and deliberately meddled in our internal elections*.

China, on the other hand, failed to understand the magnitude of the problem and to let others know of its mistakes early and openly.

I see a big difference between the two.
How nice.
 

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
I'm not into RW gossip. Russia interfered with our election and Trump welcomed and encouraged it. (still lost the popular vote)
Don't fall into the RW bubble of the new conspiracy of blaming China and the WHO for Trumps failures.
The archives are full of valid rebuttals on that. It would be just redundancy at this point rehashing the same old arguments over and over again.
 

exchemist

Veteran Member
There was non stop complaints about alleged meddling of Russia with the US and now it appears China has not been forthright about the virus, warning other countries as a good international neighbor.

Going forward it seems at best inconsistent

Are there lessons learned for liberals, conservatives, and the US, Russia and China relations?

None whatsoever.


1) It is far from clear in what way China has not been "forthright", or what that amounts to. China has shared a great deal of both science on the virus, and medical experience on treating it, with the rest of the world about this virus, very rapidly.

2) Any issues about the speed and extent of voluntary data sharing are in quite a different category from malevolent and unprompted interference with another country's politics.
 

exchemist

Veteran Member
By the way I notice that, bizarrely, there is now an attempt under way in the US to blame the WHO, as well as China!

I cannot for the life of me see what benefit there is in starting a blame game, now of all times, with the one organisation that has at least tried to get some kind of international coordination going on data exchange and on policy responses.
 
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tytlyf

Not Religious
YES! Let's just go with the NEW conspiracy blaming Trump for everything.

Oh wait, that has always been happening!
Of course it's been happening his whole life. I prefer to call out ignoramuses. Instead of enjoying eating lies all day. Incompetence doesn't deserve to be celebrated.
 

Shad

Veteran Member
There was non stop complaints about alleged meddling of Russia with the US and now it appears China has not been forthright about the virus, warning other countries as a good international neighbor.

Going forward it seems at best inconsistent

Are there lessons learned for liberals, conservatives, and the US, Russia and China relations?

As the media didn't prime their reactions to be against China nor stoking an existing concern by fearmonger and sensationalism. Toss in every major US media company and Hollywood do far more business in China than Russia. China is a huge market with an insane government. Media does not want to bite the hand that feeds.
 
By the way I notice that, bizarrely, there is now an attempt under way in the US to blame the WHO, as well as China!

To be fair, the WHO has been consistently abysmal in its advice and wrong about pretty much everything that mattered: Keep on travelling, don't wear masks, etc.

Other than 'faith in institutions' what would be the positive argument that they have handled this situation well? If so, why should we assume they will be more correct on the next major call?

Trump is obviously in full on spin mode, but that shouldn't detract from how bad the WHO have handled this.
 

Polymath257

Think & Care
Staff member
Premium Member
As the media didn't prime their reactions to be against China nor stoking an existing concern by fearmonger and sensationalism. Toss in every major US media company and Hollywood do far more business in China than Russia. China is a huge market with an insane government. Media does not want to bite the hand that feeds.

Maybe a different comparison? How about we compare China's actions or inactions on this virus to Russia's actions and inactions concerning the Chernobyl disaster?

Remember that Russia initially denied anything happened, even though it knew otherwise, and kept denying it even though the radioactive cloud crossing Europe was obvious to those keeping track of such things. it was only later that it opened up about what happened.

For China, we had an initial denial, even internally, and then considerably more openness about the details of what they knew about this virus (although perhaps not in terms of death rates).

Again, in this case, both were unexpected events. As far as I can tell, Russia comes out slightly worse, but the overall impact of their denial was less than what would have happened if China had not let everyone know what was going on until cases showed up in other countries. So, Russia was less honest, but the stakes were higher for China.
 

Polymath257

Think & Care
Staff member
Premium Member
To be fair, the WHO has been consistently abysmal in its advice and wrong about pretty much everything that mattered: Keep on travelling, don't wear masks, etc.

Other than 'faith in institutions' what would be the positive argument that they have handled this situation well? If so, why should we assume they will be more correct on the next major call?

Trump is obviously in full on spin mode, but that shouldn't detract from how bad the WHO have handled this.

Let's face it. The severity of this virus has shocked pretty much everyone. I was also initially skeptical that it was a 'big deal'. Well, pretty much everyone was wrong about this.

One question is when people started to take it seriously. Trump was clearly a late comer on this, although his tentative border closing was reasonably early.

Now, let's figure out how to go *forward*. How can WHO, Trump, Cuomo, Merkel, *anyone* give insight on what to do next?

And no, promoting medicines that are not known to work is not the answer.
 

Regiomontanus

Ματαιοδοξία ματαιοδοξιών! Όλα είναι ματαιοδοξία.
By the way I notice that, bizarrely, there is now an attempt under way in the US to blame the WHO, as well as China!

I cannot for the life of me see what benefit there is in starting a blame game...

Trump knows he failed at his job and so is desperate to create a false narrative to fight the onslaught of negative ads that are going to start once the campaign gets into full swing. IMHO.
 
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