1. Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Featured Why aren't there more agnostics?

Discussion in 'Agnosticism' started by Samantha Rinne, Feb 24, 2018.

  1. Kfox

    Kfox Member

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2021
    Messages:
    92
    Ratings:
    +24
    Religion:
    Atheist
    It sounds like you are confirming my point when I said:

    "Sasquatch may exist in someone’s imagination, but because he doesn’t have a physical existence, he doesn’t exist actually or in reality. Do you agree?"

    I think we agree much more than we disagree concerning the Sasquatch scenario. Now getting back to God; when someone says they believe in God, what they really mean is that they believe in God's actuality; is this your position?
     
  2. Willamena

    Willamena Just me
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2006
    Messages:
    39,616
    Ratings:
    +6,597
    Religion:
    Mystics
    Just so. God, for those who believe in him, is (or, at least, should be) real.
     
  3. Kfox

    Kfox Member

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2021
    Messages:
    92
    Ratings:
    +24
    Religion:
    Atheist
    Real meaning what?
     
  4. Willamena

    Willamena Just me
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2006
    Messages:
    39,616
    Ratings:
    +6,597
    Religion:
    Mystics
    Informed by truth.
     
  5. Kfox

    Kfox Member

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2021
    Messages:
    92
    Ratings:
    +24
    Religion:
    Atheist
    So an actual existence is not necessary; one can "believe in" God, even though they know he doesn't actually exist? Is this what you're saying?
     
  6. Mestemia

    Mestemia Advocatus Diaboli
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2005
    Messages:
    48,900
    Ratings:
    +13,247
    IMO, yes, they can.
    Just like those who "believe in" other symbols that do not exist outside the representing symbol.
     
  7. Kfox

    Kfox Member

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2021
    Messages:
    92
    Ratings:
    +24
    Religion:
    Atheist
    What symbols are you talking about?
     
  8. Mestemia

    Mestemia Advocatus Diaboli
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2005
    Messages:
    48,900
    Ratings:
    +13,247
    All of them that represent something that is not "physically" real.
    Like god.
    Like the swastika
    like the cross
    the Bible
    Koran
    Sutra
    Ying yang
    Elephant
    Donkey
     
  9. Kfox

    Kfox Member

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2021
    Messages:
    92
    Ratings:
    +24
    Religion:
    Atheist
    I've got a feeling that was not what Willamena was talking about.
     
  10. Mestemia

    Mestemia Advocatus Diaboli
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2005
    Messages:
    48,900
    Ratings:
    +13,247
    I suspect you are correct.

    My apologies if I caused some confusion here.
    That was not my intention.
    I was merely answering your question:

    So an actual existence is not necessary; one can "believe in" God, even though they know he doesn't actually exist?
    and was not addressing this one:

    Is this what you're saying?​

    Mainly because the second one is one that IMO only she can answer.
     
  11. Kfox

    Kfox Member

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2021
    Messages:
    92
    Ratings:
    +24
    Religion:
    Atheist
    Concerning your view, you mentioned some people may believe in a symbol, but I think people may care about what the symbol represents; not the symbol itself. Do you agree?
     
  12. Mestemia

    Mestemia Advocatus Diaboli
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2005
    Messages:
    48,900
    Ratings:
    +13,247
    A map is not the terrain.
    However, there are those who treat the map as the terrain.
    One example is how Muslims act over the treatment of the Koran.
    Not all of them mind you, but there are plenty of Muslims who go bat **** crazy insane when someone mistreats a Koran.

    Another example is the American Flag...
    It is not the cloth that is what is important, but what that cloth means to them.

    So provided I understand your inquiry correctly, yes, I agree.
     
  13. Kfox

    Kfox Member

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2021
    Messages:
    92
    Ratings:
    +24
    Religion:
    Atheist
    The symbols you listed have an actual existence. I can understand people idolizing symbols with an actual existence, but a symbol that does not exist?
     
  14. Mestemia

    Mestemia Advocatus Diaboli
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2005
    Messages:
    48,900
    Ratings:
    +13,247
    what symbol does not exist?
     
  15. Kfox

    Kfox Member

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2021
    Messages:
    92
    Ratings:
    +24
    Religion:
    Atheist
    Back in post #105 I asked if an actual existence is not necessary to believe in God, you said existence was not necessary and listed examples of symbols that don’t exist that one could believe in.
     
  16. Willamena

    Willamena Just me
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2006
    Messages:
    39,616
    Ratings:
    +6,597
    Religion:
    Mystics
    I doubt it.

    I'm confused as to why you consider actual existence to be "not necessary," or how you got that from anything I said. All existence is essential. None of it fails to be painted on the canvas (despite your denials).

    One believes in God if one accepts "God" as (painted as) actual or real.
     
  17. Willamena

    Willamena Just me
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2006
    Messages:
    39,616
    Ratings:
    +6,597
    Religion:
    Mystics
    A symbol essenitally means what it represents. The "STOP" sign at the corner means stop.

    If a person cares about one and not the other, they're just doing it wrong.
     
  18. Kfox

    Kfox Member

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2021
    Messages:
    92
    Ratings:
    +24
    Religion:
    Atheist
    I’m asking you if it’s necessary.
    You spoke of Sasquatch and other imaginary characters that don’t have an actual existence. I’m asking if when one says they believe in “X”, are they saying they believe in his actual existence? Or are they saying something else.
    So if one does not believe Sasquatch is an actual being, they would not believe in Sasquatch; is this what you are saying?
     
  19. Kfox

    Kfox Member

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2021
    Messages:
    92
    Ratings:
    +24
    Religion:
    Atheist
    Stop sign might be a poor example; nobody cares about the Stop sign, they obey it because it represents the law, but as far as the sign, nobody really cares about it.
     
  20. Willamena

    Willamena Just me
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2006
    Messages:
    39,616
    Ratings:
    +6,597
    Religion:
    Mystics
    Ah. You began your premise with "So," so I didn't get that.

    The word "belief" implies that they are investing in actual existence, informed by truth.

    People use "belief' in many different ways, but I take belief in X seriously.

    Yes.
     
Loading...