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Featured Why are Your Theological Beliefs Correct?

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by Exaltist Ethan, Sep 27, 2022.

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  1. Transtheism

    4.5%
  2. Atheism

    18.2%
  3. Agnosticism

    36.4%
  4. Omnitheism

    4.5%
  5. Pantheism

    13.6%
  6. Panentheism

    31.8%
  7. Monotheism

    27.3%
  8. Henotheism

    9.1%
  9. Polytheism

    4.5%
  10. Other

    13.6%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. Exaltist Ethan

    Exaltist Ethan Synverse Shaper

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    This thread is inspired by this thread that I made exactly two months ago.

    I realize now that thread had certain errors to it that I desire to correct with this thread. First, that thread was in Interfaith Discussion, which is fine, but looking back on that thread from the very beginning there seems to be disagreements about theology, but because it was in Interfaith nobody could debate for or against their positions. As well, by now I should have made it abundantly clear by now that Omnitheism is its own theology. I even made a thread in the Pantheism DIR forum detailing how I understand it.

    I have thus decided to make this thread. The focus of this thread should be its general question: Why are Your Theological Beliefs Correct? I suspect that with such a topic there will be much arguing over why one considers one theologies better than others, but I want to take the time to also make a poll about theologies and add Omnitheism into it.

    I don't want to make this thread a simple let's tell everybody your theology then leave type of discussion. I want real debate. Answer the poll, then give us a detailed answer on how you see theology and why you believe it. Convince me, the thread creator, and everybody else reading this thread, that your theology is the correct one. I am leaving the poll open indefinitely and allowing people to change their positions if they so desire.

    For those who don't understand theology as well as myself, I will explain what each theology on the poll is. This is taking this post and putting it here so people may understand what each basic theology presented here entails.

    Human-Focused Theologies
    Transtheism:
    Gods are Irrelevant.
    Examples include Nontheism, Ignosticism, Syntheism.
    Atheism: Disbelief in Gods.
    Examples include Humanism, Objectivism, Positivism.
    Agnosticism: Gods are Unknowable.
    Examples include Agnostic Theism, Agnostic Atheism, Apatheism.

    Material-Focused Theologies
    Omnitheism:
    Each Being is its Own God.
    Examples include Omnism, New Age, Animism.
    Pantheism: Nature is God.
    Examples include Scientific Pantheism, Spiritual Pantheism, Monist Pantheism.
    Panentheism: God is Nature and Beyond It.
    Examples include Strong Panentheism, Weak Panentheism, Panendeism.

    God-Focused Theologies
    Monotheism:
    There is One God.
    Examples include Christianity, Islam, Judaism.
    Henotheism: Many Gods but One Central God.
    Examples include Hinduism, Zoroastrianism, Hellenism.
    Polytheism: There are Many Gods.
    Examples include Kemetism, Asatru, Wicca.

    Now that I have paved the road for discussion, given enough detail about this thread, I want to spend the remainder of this thread detailing how I see my own theology and why it is correct.

    My theology is that The Omniverse, a verse that contains all realities, is God. However, that is only the being of God. The action of God can be represented as the natural forces Entropy and Extropy. All three work together to form the reality we currently exist in. The reason why evil exists is because the being of The Omniverse, spacetime and matter, and Entropy, are thousands of times more powerful than are current output of Extropy. Entropy holds five distinct divine qualities; totality, essentiality, eternity, ubiquity and potency. Extropy holds the other five; utility, generosity, sagacity, sovereignty and unity.

    The totality of things broke The Omniverse down, and now those hyper-realities are now essential to each other. Entropy exists eternally, is everywhere and is composed of either positive or negative matter and energy. Entropy is how The Omniverse went from being one entity to being nearly an infinite amount of entities. Extropy, on the other hand, is human-created. Our utilities as humans has allowed us to be more generous. People who perform acts of generosity are wiser for it. The humans that are wiser tend to own property or get elected to office, sovereignty. When sovereign nations come together they build unity.

    There are markers towards every divine trait, but we are currently somewhere between sovereignty and unity. I know this because the vast majority of Earth is represented by sovereign nations, but there still isn't the cohesive unity marked by an end of sovereign wars against each other. After wars against countries stops happening it is then that Earth has achieved global unity and peace. When this happens we will collectively work on bringing forth the goals marked by Kardashev's Scale. Mainly, increasing our energy usage in such a way that allows us to eventually leave this planet and enter others.

    Humans will start on Earth, bringing us to a type one global civilization that will eventually go stellar, throughout the solar system. Then the next stage is galactic, throughout the Milky Way. Then extra-galactic, throughout many galaxies. Then we will imbue our sentience and technology throughout the entire Universe. Eventually we will find ways to escape this reality and exist in others; the Multiverse, the Metaverse, the Xenoverse, the Hyperverse so on until we find ways to exist with our creator: The Omniverse and our existence itself becomes Omniversal.

    When we and our surrounding environment becomes Omniversal we will possess the same characteristics The Omniverse has: totality, essentiality, eternity, ubiquity and potency and then each entity it will become Gods themselves. What I'm trying to say is that I believe in panendeism, that is The Omniverse, that is slowly becoming more focused on human involvement over time, and will result in what Pierre Teilhard has described as The Omega Point, or what I call The Omniversal Point: a Point in which all entities and individual parts of matter are deified. I call this type of deification Omnist Exaltism. Omnist in the sense that all religions and realities will appear correct and incorrect depending on which reality you choose to exist in, and exaltist, because all will be exalted beyond its current capacities and what it is able to function as.

    That is my belief. Divinity happens primarily not in the past but the future, and there will be technology, or utility, in the future that will give us the abilities of Gods; transporting souls and consciousnesses to different realities, existing in many parts of different realities at once, and experiencing reality as different entities, what was once secrets of The Omniverse is solely being and becoming to be unlocked through our divine capabilities as humans.

    So in many ways we are shifting from a reality that exists from what is currently a panendeist-type state into an omnitheist-type reality. I call this transition of power, from the whole to the individual, syntheism. Syntheism literally means to create God, and is a type of transtheism. It's transtheism because syntheism ultimately believes we can create as many realities or Gods that we wish to exist, like a physical manifestation of the game Black & White.

    When our Extropy reaches a certain point it will eventually create a near-infinite amount of realities that will have a near-infinite amount of Entropy. Whole Universes will be interlaced with each other, and we will fold reality in our hands as easily as we can fold a deck of cards right now. Utility, or technology, will always keep getting further in advancement, and even though what appears to us as Godlike now will appear to this post-reality as second nature. Eventually the very advancement of theology will help people discover new ways of expressing these controlled realities.

    It in then that I realize from this point going forward that because of this, any God or Gods that might actually exist right now will become redundant due to what our capabilities will become. Right now each one of us is a fractal of divinity, a fractal of God, that is growing larger each and every day. So I believe in a natural, physical, material God. And in terms of spirituality, I see the Gods of other religions as subjective metaphors meant to help control or guide those humans towards freedom, success or omniversal traits.

    So I intend on answering the poll as such: transtheism (syntheism), panentheism (panendeism) and the eventual outcome of such, omnitheism. I see divinity not as something that exists in the past but something that primarily exists in the future, as we keep increasing our capabilities and becoming more omniversal each day. We have a long road ahead of us, but this is my theology, and the reason why I believe it is simple: look at what we've already done. This future I dream of is not that far away in fact.

    I know this sounds crazy, but imagine trying to explain to people a thousand years ago where we are today, and then realizing a thousand years from now people at that time would probably sound crazy to us too. This is how I see fate unraveling itself over time.

    From Omniverse to Omnitheism.

    Now tell me, what are your theological beliefs, why are they correct and why should I believe you?
     
  2. rational experiences

    rational experiences Veteran Member

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    I live on a planet only our own.

    Everything exists before me as mass.

    I'm a single free moving entity I'm not fixed like mass is.

    I know by study self chosen...that mass can develop change in cooling. Ice is the proof versus dead giant skeleton dinosaurs. Life was once different on my planet.

    I see O moon. I see the sun O. I hence know O I live upon too. I realise I compare advice yet it's not comparable.

    I identify I express a conscious problem. I compare bodies that I shouldn't.

    I'm a baby human.

    I've grown from human sex. I see adults who are pretty scary bossing me all the time. I only want to play be free enjoy my life.

    I'm told everything I don't want to be.

    So I get angry and one day ask some questions. If everything is natural why aren't humans all the same?

    And why do humans showing conscious awareness act so destructively.

    Especially we eat what we kill to survive only.

    I think. I know I can eat without guilt by taking a form that dies itself. So I advise myself my behaviour isn't unnatural.

    Yet I have dreams. I see visions and I'm told our life is spiritual.

    I look and realise...behaviour says no it's not.

    So I demand some answers. If something other than presence owned why we live in this condition then tell me.

    I'm a human. I think in my own presence. I ask questions and I give myself answers.

    A voice not my owned said if you want to know then live a spiritual life. So I agreed I had proof and I studied.

    Anything written was a human and a family members own experience.

    I didn't just believe as I saw human indoctrination in practice. A lot of bullying.

    I asked questions. I researched advice. I thought upon teachings and challenged particular beliefs.

    It felt correct about my answers as most answers not of my studied knowledge was proven. I had been told.

    So I learnt science knew it had changed the heavens mass state from natural into an Ai effect.

    Recorded voice image terms by machine transmitters.

    Yet I'm always biology.

    So it's obvious how we lived changed to accommodate the AI effect.

    Mass heavens body had changed. Yep advice just human said it did.

    The visions I saw about my mother. Told me as a baby adult consciousness her memories are mine.

    I saw her...perfection compared to my own or my sister's. Still not as beautiful as mother was.

    It showed her just walking out of nowhere as a spirit being whose life body changed into a human life.

    It showed me family rotating on a changing wood nature and rock.

    I learnt visions owned abstract reasons. As my brother's mind invented the abstract causes. A theist.

    So I could not just watch and learn in a vision. I had to thesis advice too.

    I also saw evil visions.

    Which made sense that created creation mass body was once spiritual too. Had burnt ...had been released.

    As we aren't cojoined to mass I understood how our parents had emerged with animal life and came from spirit.

    As the body that had caused created creation in burning was where we came from too. The part not changed.

    Only after common sense details....empty space was filled in by the gas the O trapped entity only had released. Planets as gods.

    Terms used then owned meaning.

    The bridge of the heavens re established body contact with the eternal. The body man had depicted now owned a womb. Space separated burnt removed mass...O what was left cooled.

    So I am psychic. I Understsnd concepts and own feelings about others pain and suffering. They don't know I know. I'm named empathic.

    I prove my advice about them...just strangers but real. I own great sympathy and I don't want them hurt. So I learn yes I am spiritual.

    Therefore I understood if a being changed its owned body type we emulate it's choices consciously ourselves. We compare when we shouldn't.

    Having inherited change.

    So leaving a mass and bursting a mass then burning... the mass of a spiritual being made sense too. It had been unnaturally changed by another beings purpose.

    It was held trapped in O observation.

    For how else can you look observe or see another type of being...language spirit flowing unless you make it stop to look at it.

    Was how our father aware explained it to my life. As he and mother had come out of that body. Eternal type no explanation why it exists. It just does.

    So nature was first. It hovered above the ground.

    Pressure grounded it below. As pressure above makes root patterns in reactions occur.

    We use psychic advice and put it in movie themes or songs. Trees depicted were moving above ground..lord of rings said so too.

    Therefore to come out from... trees as nature released first then animals of all types two of already. Then humans.

    Why? As all life on origin earth had been obliterated. So it came out again after cooling.

    You think how did a heavenly body make the eternal change. When both bodies are separated terms?

    Pushing said it had caused it.

    To open.

    | | Side by side two body types separated.

    | Heavens | eternal.
    I ....pushed against each other....when stretched immaculate burnt by the sun produced new mass. Mass a body not previously present.

    <> Sideways push mass accumulated cooling of immaculate above earth.

    I((((((((((((()))))))))))))))eternal pushed back.
    () The transmitted spiritual release of the eternal.

    Made sense to me how spirit types came out of the same place but were already their owned body.

    Dinosaurs another proof was living in garden nature. Nothing like us so cannot have developed by microbes.

    Machine parts held in instant snap freeze...humans were the first on origin earth our truth. Before dinosaurs.

    And human science with AI machine technology had destroyed all life on earth. The reason why.

    We know we own and live our own advice.

    Science already knew the occult has been observed. From out of O sealed mass where the God angel had been trapped.
     
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  3. Vinayaka

    Vinayaka devotee
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    I've never viewed beliefs in the correct/incorrect model, which makes the question moot.
     
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  4. Brickjectivity

    Brickjectivity Turned to Stone. Now I stretch daily.
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    First of all the human mind is made of lies, some of which are more reliable than others. I think most biology and psychologies would agree. Each lie corresponds with one or more other lies, and this correspondence is what we call truth or what many Psychologists would call 'Perception'.

    "What is truth?" is a relatively good challenge, and the reason it appears in a gospel story is that Christianity aims to be the truth that casts out all other claimants either by usurping or outgrowing them. Jesus says to Pontius Pilate "Everyone on the side of truth listens to me." to which Pilot responds "What is truth?" This happens in the 18th chapter of the gospel John, alluding backwards to chapter 3 in which Jesus announces "This is the verdict. Light has come into the world, but people loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil." So what is truth to Jesus? It is whatever people who do righteous things say is truth. Whatever people say that do evil things, their words are not the truth. This is a Jesus who submits truths to the test of actions. He tests not our arguments but our lives. What is our response to his approach, and what can Jesus reveal about theology?

    John
    begins with one of the most discussed theological passages among catholics and other similar groups. In it there is a contest of who is right and who is not. It uses terms such as 'Logos' and 'Pneuma' and talks about the unity of all of Jesus disciples as well as those who listen to his disciples. He says he and The Father are one, and that we should all be one just as they are one. I suggest this truly is where the understanding or the detection of divinity begins for human beings. The discovery or the sense of divinity is not found in philosophy or in imagination of origins.

    Understanding our origins cannot lead us to an understanding of the divinity in which we live and move. This is because we are tiny both as individuals and as a group. Our minds perceive but not as much or as well as we wish, and sometimes we mistake that wish for certainty. Unfortunately for us we understand much less than we'd like and usually less than we think. We are simply not able to grasp things that are outside of our range. To reach the divine no intellectual means has yet been discovered. We model it with philosophy and with big ideas, but we cannot touch it that way.

    In my experience I touched the divine only once. Once I pondered the beauty of love and entered some state of thought I had never experience before or have since. I can only give analogies of the experience. It was simultaneously like quiet and hearing a roar like I was near a great waterfall. In other words the experience did not make a lot of sense to my perception, however in that moment I received future knowledge. Why? I don't know, however it lead to a chain of events that completely changed my thinking and the course of my life. This tiny experience by a tiny man is the real basis and the inkling I can give of the divine. The rest is all guesswork and modeling.

    I imagine in my perception that God is transcendent. I imagine also that God is sort of like numbers, something which we cannot say requires a beginning or a substance but which can be a basis and a substance for other things. I also imagine that we exist in God. I like to model this in my mind as if we and our universe exists as a complicated (to us) orderly set. This is similar to panentheism in some ways, but it is not really what I can say about God. What I can say about God is that to reach God we must seek ways of overcoming the complex relationship problems that exist among ourselves and that in doing so we somehow will be interacting with God. I think our relationships somehow harmonize with God when we make them peaceful. So there is something about us which is like a smaller and less detailed version of something else which exists in God, and we can sometimes reach God through this. In a figure of speech it is our antenna for reaching God. Perhaps it makes us more real, too. Perhaps this and perhaps that; but I think there is only one way to touch the divine. That is what I have already explained.

    So to me all prayers, all meditations, all actions which bring us closer to other people are a prayer to God. They are our connection to God because of a sympathetic harmony that human relationships have with something in God. So things which are philosophical about individuals, such as for example meditations which give us awareness of ourselves but not of others, these are probably not going to reveal God to us nor connect us with God. They will take us into another direction, one of not being able to perceive God.
     
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  5. The Sum of Awe

    The Sum of Awe Brought to you by the moment that spacetime began.

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    I have to first apologize, I am an impatient reader so I could only skim your post. I hope you can forgive me :)

    My understanding of reality is that there is only one. If there were another "reality" it would not be real to our own. Perhaps there are different subsets of spacetime that are inaccessible to our own spacetime, but considering there's no way our own existence could interact with them then they essentially are nonexistent.

    I don't fully understand the concept of Extropy, but it is under the category of "pseudo-science" which says to me that it's more of a concept than anything scientifically known. In fact, from what I understand of entropy, extropy is impossible. Entropy always increases, energy isn't infinite and can't be renewed without using more energy.

    Humans becoming interplanetary? I can see it. Humans becoming interstellar? It'd be difficult, but I wouldn't deny its possibility. Humans becoming intergalactic? Eh... that seems far fetched for me, but if we're able to become interstellar, perhaps that would give us enough time to discover methods of intergalactic travel.

    "Inter-reality" however, doesn't make any sense to me. As I said earlier, a reality outside of our own is, by definition, not real. And a spacetime outside of our own would be noninteractional with our own, there would be no way to travel to a separate spacetime for there would be no space to travel through to get us there.

    I suppose if we did have enough power to accomplish such feats then we would be essentially Godlike. Good luck finding evidence that this will ever happen though. It seems like you are throwing a rock in the air, expect it to hit a trail of dominoes a few yards away, and those dominoes will all fall succesfully to bump over a cup containing 40 die, and all 40 of the die will land on 6's.
     
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  6. The Sum of Awe

    The Sum of Awe Brought to you by the moment that spacetime began.

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    Why is pantheism correct imo? Because everything is cause and effect originating from the big bang. We're all vibrations from the moment spacetime began, everything is just a part of the same vibration.
     
  7. ben d

    ben d Dhyani

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    Because my understanding is that the reality represented by the concept of God is all that is. The proof of God therefore is all that exists. .
     
  8. The Sum of Awe

    The Sum of Awe Brought to you by the moment that spacetime began.

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  9. Exaltist Ethan

    Exaltist Ethan Synverse Shaper

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    I consider existing better than not existing. And unless we do the steps to deify ourselves and our environment, everything will parish in our Universe. Think about it. No matter how many humans exist at one point, if we don't find a way to make ourselves omniversal, then existence itself might be for nothing. A few decades from now they might discover the secrets of biological immorality. However, there are so many ways people can die than simply from their own biology. And if we aren't able to stop humans from going extinct then it will be up to another humanoid like species to save us one day. If Extropy doesn't exist, then the Universe will simply go into a heat death, everything in it will divide into its smallest particles, and there was really no point of us existing at all.

    However, if I am correct, and extropy as a concept does exist in some rudimentary form right now, then there is no choice but to throw that rock in the air and hope that those things happen. I actually laughed at your post because it is kind of true, but what other choice do we have unless we want entropy to control everything and there to be nonexistence for everything? At least I am giving us an out and saying, "hey, maybe it is possible that all of this really did mean something." And every day I'm alive I'm discovering new utilities and technologies that are starting to prove my hypothesis right. It might not exactly happen the way I predict, but something like it will.
     
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  10. The Sum of Awe

    The Sum of Awe Brought to you by the moment that spacetime began.

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    In what ways do you think that we should begin looking to make ourselves omniversal?
     
  11. Exaltist Ethan

    Exaltist Ethan Synverse Shaper

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    We are far from that stage. Not only do we have a long time before the heat death, but we're not really close technology-wise yet. However, I'll try to name some utilities/technologies that might exist that will ultimately have to be created for this to happen.

    The ability to create other realities/Universes, Synverse technology.
    The ability to fold the Universe in wormholes to make it easier to travel to other planets.
    Soul technology, or the ability for consciousness to exist without a body or a brain.
    Hybrid thoughts and consciousnesses, such as being able to exist in many places at once.
    Quantum archeology, or the ability to resurrect all 72-ish billion people that ever died.

    We already do these kinds of things in video games, look at video games like No Man's Sky. What is so unrealistic about creating a physical reality that mimics those digital realities?
     
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  12. Father Heathen

    Father Heathen Veteran Member

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    Well, I'm more agnostic, but if there is a force/entity out there, the panentheistic model makes the most sense to me. Or maybe pantheism/pandeism? Somewhere in that ballpark, anyway.
     
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  13. Seeker of White Light

    Seeker of White Light Be who ever you want

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    Baha'i Faith is right for me personally, I don't try to push it on to others, but when people ask nicely i try to explain it, if others don't believe what I do, its ok.
     
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  14. Aupmanyav

    Aupmanyav Be your own guru

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    I do not have a theology. I am an atheist.
     
  15. questfortruth

    questfortruth Well-Known Member

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    Atheists will never say that atheism is a belief.
     
  16. Augustus

    Augustus the Unreasonable

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    I do, as do some others
     
  17. questfortruth

    questfortruth Well-Known Member

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    Atheism is not belief. Atheism is disbelief.
     
  18. Augustus

    Augustus the Unreasonable

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    While I'm not going to get into the details as it's off topic, disbelief is a belief in the negative of something. This falls within a perfectly standard usage of the term "belief".
     
  19. questfortruth

    questfortruth Well-Known Member

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    To do not confuse the definitions. Believers are not Disbelievers, and latter are not believers.
     
  20. Kenny

    Kenny Face to face with my Father
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    wow!
     
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