Why Are You Not an Atheist?

[Nakosis]

I'm not trying to imply that there are no reason for being a theist.
And I think we've discussed often enough atheist's reason for being an atheist. However I'd be happy to explain for myself why.

I'm just curious what folks feel justifies their theism. What knowledge a person personally has to justify a belief in God.

 

[Mindmaster]

I'm not trying to imply that there are no reason for being a theist.
And I think we've discussed often enough atheist's reason for being an atheist. However I'd be happy to explain for myself why.

I'm just curious what folks feel justifies their theism. What knowledge a person personally has to justify a belief in God.

Well, if you can talk to a deity then they probably exist for you. Strangely, I started as an atheist but became something different later. These are questions people have to answer with their own experiences. However, if that influence is in your perception then denying it far more crazy. For me, Satan is there just like "happiness" or whatever other emotional state would be for someone else. We don't spend all day debating whether they exist or not.

If you take it on blind faith, then I guess you are just hoping. However, blind faith can be in belief or disbelief. The better position is agnostic...

 

[Nakosis]

Well, if you can talk to a deity then they probably exist for you. Strangely, I started as an atheist but became something different later. These are questions people have to answer with their own experiences. However, if that influence is in your perception then denying it far more crazy. For me, Satan is there just like "happiness" or whatever other emotional state would be for someone else. We don't spend all day debating whether they exist or not.

If you take it on blind faith, then I guess you are just hoping. However, blind faith can be in belief or disbelief. The better position is agnostic...

Sure I think we have the ability to create a God for ourselves and even have a reality of experience involving the God we create. I just don't because if their actually happens to be a God, I don't trust myself to get it right.

I suppose I see believing in no God is better than believing in the wrong one.

 

[Regiomontanus]

I'm not trying to imply that there are no reason for being a theist.
And I think we've discussed often enough atheist's reason for being an atheist. However I'd be happy to explain for myself why.

I'm just curious what folks feel justifies their theism. What knowledge a person personally has to justify a belief in God.

Hello. For most of my life - including the several decades of working as an astronomer - I was an atheist. But eventually it became clear to me that the universe only made sense if there was some creative intelligence behind it. To me, now, the position of atheism (there is no God, the universe is just a random accident and here we are) is not rational. There are just to many coincidences/too much fine tuning for that position to have any merit.

This quote by the eminent physicist Freeman Dyson sums it up well:

“The more I examine the universe and the details of its architecture, the more evidence I find that the universe in some sense must have known we were coming.”

Ultimately I do not think our finite minds can ever really understand the nature of the Creator, though we can get little hints here and there. He is obviously a rational "being" since we live in a rational universe, though one with a history dependent upon both law and chance.

 

[sealchan]

I'm not trying to imply that there are no reason for being a theist.
And I think we've discussed often enough atheist's reason for being an atheist. However I'd be happy to explain for myself why.

I'm just curious what folks feel justifies their theism. What knowledge a person personally has to justify a belief in God.

Although I would argue for the existence of God as an objective, psychological reality, my belief is confined to my own interpretation of my experience as well as my understanding of the experience of others who profess a Jewish or Christian belief. As such it is founded on subjective considerations.

 

[Mindmaster]

Sure I think we have the ability to create a God for ourselves and even have a reality of experience involving the God we create. I just don't because if their actually happens to be a God, I don't trust myself to get it right.

I suppose I see believing in no God is better than believing in the wrong one.

For me, it isn't really a matter of belief. Satan isn't the only god I've been aware of either or communicated with. Anyway, perhaps it's different for me because I really had no need of some deity in my life. I just became aware of them, so I didn't sit there thinking I was crazy. I was just like, "hmm well you do this and that, and OK so those guys are there." I had no need to create them, they spoke for themselves to me.

Anyway, this reminds me of a CIA experiment on ESP where it was tested in a controlled environment. It basically found that ESP exists with some conditions -- one of them being sympathy toward what one is communicating. Perhaps therein lies the crux of the problem. Maybe, to have this awareness you at least have to be favorable enough to empathize with what you are trying to reach. I'd have considered myself in the past to be open to the experience of such things, but not having them I had no particular notion to be "for or against" them.

I actually abhor the idea that you have to believe anything. If your god is real, it's there, you can feel it and communicate. Constructing a god would be a fun exercise, but self-deluding in the practical sense. If you can't feel it there, then what's the point? It's better to not be involved where there is uncertainty.

 

[Quintessence]

Atheism only makes sense when referenced as a contrast to a specifically defined god-concept. Otherwise, it gets genuinely absurd. It's better not to go into it.

Theism has the same issue, actually. Both terms say very little and a lot of nothing.

 

[lukethethird]

Why?

Have you ever felt persecuted, it's what Christians live for.

 

[Deeje]

Why?

Have you ever felt persecuted, it's what Christians live for.

Really? Who in their right mind welcomes persecution? That's just weird.

That it happens is a fact of life in a religiously divided world...but Christians are not the only religion that suffers persecution.

 

[Sunstone]

Really? Who in their right mind welcomes persecution? That's just weird.

That it happens is a fact of life in a religiously divided world...but Christians are not the only religion that suffers persecution.

Atheists have suffered persecution by religious folks since before the word "atheist" existed.

 

[sun rise]

What knowledge a person personally has to justify a belief in God.

To me it's not about intellectual knowledge. The intellect can construct a chain of logic that leads to the Divine depending on the premise one starts with.

And to me it's not about justifying. It's about having a sense that there is more to life than a purely physical existence and attaching the word "God" to that sense.

 

[lukethethird]

Atheists have suffered persecution by religious folks since before the word "atheist" existed.

Perhaps, but Christians can suffer just by imagining how Jesus suffered.

 

[Nakosis]

Atheism only makes sense when referenced as a contrast to a specifically defined god-concept. Otherwise, it gets genuinely absurd. It's better not to go into it.

Theism has the same issue, actually. Both terms say very little and a lot of nothing.

Ok, but people do consider themselves as theist or atheist. I presume that individually they have their reasoning.

 

[Nakosis]

To me it's not about intellectual knowledge. The intellect can construct a chain of logic that leads to the Divine depending on the premise one starts with.

And to me it's not about justifying. It's about having a sense that there is more to life than a purely physical existence and attaching the word "God" to that sense.

Sense, feeling? A feeling there exists more to life?

I've found feelings not trustworthy. Not that they are wrong but by themselves they are not enough to justify a belief. So while I may feel that your position is wrong, that feeling alone doesn't justify a belief that you are wrong. I would need collaborating evidence, IMO, to justify it as something to be believed in.

IOW while what I choose to believe may not itself be fact, it should be supported by some facts. The more the better obviously. That's just how I see it. I not saying it as something you need to accept.

 

[Deeje]

Atheists have suffered persecution by religious folks since before the word "atheist" existed.

Persecution has many causes but religious persecution is as old as religion itself. Ancient civilisations were always founded on the worship of their gods. Can you name an ancient civilization that did not worship their own gods or rulers and invariably attribute their victories to them. It was very much a "my god is better than your god" mentality. Israel's God was even involved in these battles.

Atheism is a fairly new phenomenon on the world scene. Something called evolutionary science became the new 'religion' and for many, "nature" became the "creator" and no supernatural gods were seen as necessary. The religious world saw red.....shaming the unbelievers and threatening the worst possible outcome for them.....but in promoting science to the people, the churches seemingly had no real defence.....and there was no "punishment" from God against these infidels forthcoming......and much of what they said seemed to make sense.

Today people accept evolution without question and the churches cling to their religious beliefs that clearly conflict with science. It's a dilemma for a lot of folks.

So as the tide turned for the churches, so did the persecution.....the shoe was now on the other foot. It seems almost like a sport that those who accept science's scenario like to hold creationists in complete derision and will try to tear down what little faith remains for a Creator.

Faith is not the possession of all....

 

[Deeje]

Perhaps, but Christians can suffer just by imagining how Jesus suffered.

What does John 15:18-21 tell you about why Christians "suffer" persecution? Is it something invited so that it can be worn as a badge of honor?.....or is it just a natural consequence of "being" a footstep follower of Christ?

 

[Audie]

Really? Who in their right mind welcomes persecution? That's just weird.

That it happens is a fact of life in a religiously divided world...but Christians are not the only religion that suffers persecution.

It is weird yes, and, weird to deny it.

 

[Audie]

What does John 15:18-21 tell you about why Christians "suffer" persecution? Is it something invited so that it can be worn as a badge of honor?.....or is it just a natural consequence of "being" a footstep follower of Christ?

Naieve to deny some invite it.

 

[Audie]

[QUOTE="Deeje, post: 5800761, member: 18814"Faith is not the possession of all....[/QUOTE]

"Possession of all"

"Possession"?

What a weird thing to call it.

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

I'm not trying to imply that there are no reason for being a theist.
And I think we've discussed often enough atheist's reason for being an atheist. However I'd be happy to explain for myself why.

I'm just curious what folks feel justifies their theism. What knowledge a person personally has to justify a belief in God.

I grew up in Christianity, heavily influenced by Southern Baptists, with a maternal side of the family that was, I guess, "strong with the Force", so to speak. Like, we just kinda assumed everyone sensed the spiritual because we did (at least the women).

As I've been aging, I have realized that the God of the Bible is a literary character, but that doesn't preclude Someone or Something behind the spiritual things I feel. It might not even be the God I've been taught for all I know. After all, I feel that True Power has no real name. I completely understand that what I feel is not scientifically measurable (I guess you could see my brain activity, but that doesn't tell you the source of the activity -- yet). I also feel that if people aren't sensing the divine, that's the divine's fault, not the person's.