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Why are you Christian?/Good reasons to be Christian.

Discussion in 'Same Faith Debates' started by Jonathan Bailey, May 12, 2019.

  1. Jonathan Bailey

    Jonathan Bailey Well-Known Member

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    Considering getting back into the fold: coming home to Jesus in an Affirmed Church this time. Somewhere between an agnostic and an atheist. Questioning my faith and religion.
    Are you Christian because that was your family upbringing?

    My parents did not raise me to be religious or churchgoing but claimed to have been raised in the Christian tradition. My mother was raised Catholic and my father Protestant. I started to go to church at age 17. I was baptized a Methodist at age 17. I felt compelled to go to church because some children at school made me feel it was the right thing to do. Being raised in America, I've always felt that Christianity was the predominate religion upon which our popular national culture is based: Christmas, Easter, etc. I went to church and bible study a couple of years and then gradually abandoned the practice. I was turned off by the ordaining of women and a certain prayer in church addressing God as "Father and Mother". I was also progressively turned off from the faith due to widespread homophobia among various churches.

    I would go to church and crack open a bible off and on over the years by not devoutly.

    What are good reasons to be Christian?

    To me TRUE Christianity:

    1. instills good morals and virtues
    2. enhances a person's character
    3. offers the possibility of a peaceful eternal life by believing and following the teachings of the Lord Jesus Christ as written in the Holy Bible
    4. does not condone hypocrisy but rather condemns it (I've been guilty of it myself in the past)
    5. does not condemn same-sex love

    Never in the New Testament does Christ command against or condemn same-sex love.
     
    #1 Jonathan Bailey, May 12, 2019
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  2. Brickjectivity

    Brickjectivity ✔ a-OK RF member .99/lb
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    Mercy, acceptance, penitence and repentance are the hard learned ideals passed from Judaism through Christ, and they are why people keep joining Christ. These are not exclusive to Christ, but they are gifts. When someone thirsts for them and encounters them in Christ they join. Others also join who are simply along for the ride, like water induced by other water. There always will be a mixture of people, and that is Ok.

    So if Christ attracts people for good reasons, then why do people leave and how come people in Christ have done evil sometimes? First consider whether it is from external threats and external contaminants like spiritual lepers. No, that cannot be it. Next consider whether it is from slovenly discipleship programs. No, because even the most strict discipleship programs can't resolve these issues, haven't, and in many cases have contributed to them! I have personally seen this, but the evidence is widely known and available. What about the 'Ravening wolves' mentioned by someone named Paul? He mentions they arise from within. I guess then maybe one of the problems could be that some people stay for the wrong reasons. Maybe the social stigma of leaving christ or of having the wrong doctrines is it? There is not supposed to be such a stigma, so that could be it. Maybe its the mistaken concern people always have over whether someone else is being led by God? That is God's business. Everyone in Christ feels these things sometimes. I conclude these are serious issues.

    To sum it all I suggest that good reasons to be Christan are that you can learn and feel mercy, acceptance, penitence and repentance. The bad reasons to be a Christian are that we still have a lot of internal judgment between persons A and B and this provides a niche for Satan to attack Christ. Thus there are some reasons not to be a Christian, too. I leave it to each individual to judge what God has for them to do, and that judgement I must not judge.
     
  3. james dixon

    james dixon Well-Known Member
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    In my view, Christians follow the teaching of Jesus Christ

    And one of the scribes came and heard them arguing, and recognizing that He had answered them well, asked Him, "What commandment is the foremost of all?" Jesus answered, "The foremost is, 'Hear, O Israel! The Lord our God is one Lord; and you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind, and with all your strength.' "The second is this, 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself.' There is no other commandment greater than these." (NAS, Mark 12:28-31)

    "There is a saying, 'Love your friends and hate your enemies.' But I say: Love your enemies! Pray for those who persecute you! In that way you will be acting as true sons of your Father in heaven. For he gives his sunlight to both the evil and the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust too. If you love only those who love you, what good is that? Even scoundrels do that much. If you are friendly only to your friends, how are you different from anyone else? (TLB, Matthew 5:43-48)

    "A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. By this all men will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another." (NIV, John 13:34-35)

    For if you give, you will get! Your gift will return to you in full and overflowing measure, pressed down, shaken together to make room for more, and running over. Whatever measure you use to give- large or small- will be used to measure what is given back to you." (TLB, Luke 6:38)

    So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets. (NIV, Matthew 7:12)

    https://www.christianbiblereference.org/jneighbr.htm\

    I’m a Christian because I too believe in those values :)-
     
  4. james dixon

    james dixon Well-Known Member
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    I’m not sure what same-sex marriage means.

    If two people of the same sex like each other’s company and find this enjoyable and like to share the experiences of life with each other, is this wrong?

    If two people of the same sex find each other’s company enjoyable and decide to share what assets they have together, is this wrong?

    St. Matthew 7

    Judging Others

    1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.

    2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. Mk. 4.24

    3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

    4 Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?

    5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.
    Matthew 7. The Holy Bible: King James Version

    I believe the phrase “don’t ask; don’t tell is as valid today as it has ever been :)-
     
  5. Brickjectivity

    Brickjectivity ✔ a-OK RF member .99/lb
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    Christianity has always tended to be a little towards the monk and nun side, and sex has been somewhat under rated. Sex is considered a bit like a sweet food, so its not a priority. Reproduction has been a priority. Another thing is that the penis symbolizes pride, violence and the things that are not humble. Just read the Bible and watch for the clues, or read anything from almost any Bronze Age resource. Pride is symbolized by penises, by fat, by having a proud face and other things. 'Stiff necked' means...guess what? This is ancient culture, so lets try to figure out where it fits in today.

    If you use the typical modern Bible canon, then you have a hard case reconstructing a Christianity which appreciates same sex. That's because same sex is considered unnatural by Pauline texts, and intercourse between men for Jews is expressly forbidden. Love between Jewish men is not necessarily forbidden, but the act of intercourse is. Many Christians have taken this to mean that homosexual love is a heinous sin, although that is cherry picking I think.

    As for condemning same sex love not so much, but it is considered to be an excess. The degree of excess is debatable. No quarter is given to the man who only desires other men, so instead Christians have learned to look the other way, much like they look the other way from drinking coffee, tea, and all other excessive things. To be very logical about it, having sex isn't exactly a Mother Theresa action. Its usually considered non-spiritual and impermanent action.

    If you feel Christianity should appreciate same sex love, then you have to find the spiritual aspect of it. As with all things there probably is one, but you must explain how it fits in to Christ and has benefit. How is it not simply a Hellenistic excess? How does it promote the cause of Christ? What about love without sexual intercourse? That would be a lot easier. You also have Paul against you, because he feels its an unnatural act by which he may not be talking about physical nature either. He may be saying he doesn't see how it benefits Christ.

    In my opinion this issue is intractable until Christians soften towards each other. The finger pointing and judging makes this almost impossible to deal with appropriately. Lots and lots (and lots more) Christians are very convinced that Christianity must be reconstructed from a particular canon, but they lack interest in doing so or let someone else do it for them. The flexibility, the freedom in Christ is not emphasized, and what we often get is a very structured rule based thing that is an institution with rules and tests where my reconstruction must match yours or we part ways. Its a tiny bit like the KGB sometimes. I can't recommend for strong homosexuals that they try to survive in any Christian environment that is too interested in their personal lives, and conversely Christians shouldn't be so interested. Such an interest is silly.
     
  6. whirlingmerc

    whirlingmerc Well-Known Member

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    I believe it because I'm convinced it's true
    I also think people are happiest when the glorify God most.
    I also think Biblical Christianity glorified God best
     
  7. Sky Rivers

    Sky Rivers Active Member

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    Homosexuality (the act) is an abomination. Homosexuals? They are people. Yes, they are people living in sin. However, I condemn the sin, not them. Like myself, they have their struggles and society isn’t helping them overcome those. It also doesn’t help that they are being used by identity politics.

    Why am I Christian? I’m Christian because God called me and showed me His awesome grace, even though I spent near two decades hating him and bringing harm to his people. God is awesome and by the way, all this is coming from an ex-lesbian.
     
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  8. TransmutingSoul

    TransmutingSoul One Planet One People Please
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    Personally I love all the was Jesus the Christ and all that Christ offered.

    To me that transcends Names.

    Regards Tony
     
  9. KenS

    KenS Face to face with my Father
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    I would make a small adjustment as I realized that I am following Jesus and not church.

    1. instills good morals and virtues
    2. enhances a person's character
    3. offers the possibility of a peaceful eternal life by believing and following the teachings of the Lord Jesus Christ as written in the Holy Bible
    4. does not condone hypocrisy but rather condemns it (I've been guilty of it myself in the past)
    5. Doesn't condemn people but didn't like religious outward appearances


    There are many think Jesus didn't talk about in the NT but he was a follower of God and the Tannakh. If you love God, you will begin to drop off that which He doesn't like (such as hypocrisy)
     
  10. KenS

    KenS Face to face with my Father
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    That is a beautiful testimony and a great example of love and grace. Thank you and may God's grace and peace be multiplied to you through the knowledge of Him.
     
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  11. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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    I find ' raised in America ' can mean raised in or around ' Christendom ' ( so-called Christian beliefs ).
    Christmas nor Easter nor ordained women is a biblical teaching. That is a tradition or custom of men - Matthew 15:9.
    Jesus does 'command /condemn' against fornication ( porneia ) - Matthew 5:32; Matthew 19:9.
    The English word fornication comes from the Greek word porneia.
    Porneia covers more than just fornication, but can even include having sex with an animal as being unscriptural.

    I'm a Christian because of the first-century teaching of Christ as found in Scripture, Not church traditions.
     
  12. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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    First of all, I find the judgement Jesus is talking about is about 'personal' judgement of others.
    We are Not to impute wrong or bad motives to others.
    Jesus was Not saying that we should judge God's judgement.
    People are to use God's judgement as to decide what is right or wrong.
    Even the human judges of Psalms 82:1-8 were to use God's judgement on matters of what is right or wrong.
    Thus, they were acting in the capacity of, or being representatives as spokesmen for God's judgement.
    ALL fornication ( porneia ) is scripturally wrong in God's judgement.
     
  13. Jonathan Bailey

    Jonathan Bailey Well-Known Member

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    Nowhere in the New Testament is homosexuality mentioned. Nowhere in the Holy Bible does God expressly make a commandment against same-sex intercourse. If God had intended for people to only be attracted to the opposite sex, he would have so created man to be naturally born with such predisposition. The fact is, sex is as much about pleasure and relieving anxiety in nature as it is about continuing a living species. It is a natural bodily function as is eating, sleeping and relieving one's bowels.

    I believe that people are, by birth, predisposed to be attracted to the same sex, the opposite sex or both sexes. I do believe one's sexual orientation is something we are all born with and not conscious choice we make.

    I only believe heinous acts which harm innocent people or animals to be abominations. I see no evil in same-sex attraction. I don't personally believe that same-sex intercourse is unnatural since about 1,500 species of wild animals have been observed doing it in nature.

    Some Christians here may eat shellfish and that is prohibited in the Old Testament. Some Christians may drive an expensive car or drink beer and that is no direct benefit to our Lord but neither are really heinous practices unless one is combining drinking with driving. Christian life is all about moderation whether it be beer, cars or pleasures of the flesh.
     
    #13 Jonathan Bailey, May 12, 2019
    Last edited: May 12, 2019
  14. Sky Rivers

    Sky Rivers Active Member

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    We exist in the world, post-fall. Much here is not as God originally made it to be, including death. Furthermore, the function of sex isn't to relieve anxiety, it's for a man to sow his seed in woman, growing within her a child.

    I don't accept that people are "born gay". Furthermore, homosexual temptation isn't a choice but acting on it is.

    Why are you comparing man (made in the image of God) to animals (not made in the image of God)?

    The Bible condemns homosexuality, even "in moderation". It also condemns plenty of sexual interactions "in moderation" as well.

    1Co 6:9 (KJV)

    Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

    1Ti 1:10 (KJV)

    For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;

    Rev 21:8 (KJV)

    But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

    ***

    1Co 6:9 (NET)

    Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived! The sexually immoral, idolaters, adulterers, passive homosexual partners, practicing homosexuals,

    1Ti 1:10 (NET)

    sexually immoral people, practicing homosexuals, kidnappers, liars, perjurers - in fact, for any who live contrary to sound teaching.
     
  15. Jonathan Bailey

    Jonathan Bailey Well-Known Member

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    Not all homosexual men are effeminate. Not all lesbian woman are butch.

    There are butch women who are married to men and sissy men married to women.

    "Menstealers" are kidnappers.

    Fortification is unwed sex between two members of the opposite sex according to my dictionary. It sounds like people who have unwed sex might be hell-bound. I think a number of things written in the bible are contrary to nature's ways. Homosexuality is an ATTRACTION and not always an act. Same-sex attraction is involuntarily. If a teenage boy gets aroused by looking at a young naked man in the shower, that is not a conscious decision to become aroused unless you believe the devil is causing same-sex arousal, temptation as you say. I do believe some people have the natural predisposition to be aroused by the same sex at least part of the time. Perhaps many people have the natural predisposition to be aroused by either sex. Yes, the mortal flesh in this world is weak.

    Nothing in the King James Version translations of the NT reference homosexuality specifically.

    abusers of themselves with mankind can mean many things

    Sex between two consenting adults is not abusive. Playing a rough sport like football might be abusive.

    I don't believe also that there are any prohibitions against masturbation in the bible. We were created as human, sexual beings, not asexual creatures, as angels, by our Maker. Things sexual to fulfill certain bodily and/or psychological needs are in our physical resolve. Most earthly sexual activity is to fulfill certain personal needs, not with the intent to make babies. The virtues of masturbation and same-sex intercourse are that they are not conducive to unwanted pregnancies and pregnancies out of wedlock and help control the population. God said be fruitful and multiply but He never said overpopulate the world as vermin.

    People can be masturbators and engage in same-sex intercourse habits and still be good, kind, compassionate, peaceful, gentle, unselfish and charitable. Many unselfish homosexuals of means provide loving homes for children who would otherwise be in orphanages and unloved.

    Yes, abstinence, celibacy and virginity also are conducive to population control but they are against the grain of human nature in the flesh. All sexual creatures of creation don't mate with the intent to make babies: they do it to satisfy needs of the flesh, that is, "it feels good". Reproduction is just random and incidental.

    That Catholic priests, nuns and monks have to take a vow of celibacy is also unnatural. Many "Christian" teachings go against the grain of nature. After all, God made nature.
     
    #15 Jonathan Bailey, May 13, 2019
    Last edited: May 13, 2019
  16. Jonathan Bailey

    Jonathan Bailey Well-Known Member

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    Considering getting back into the fold: coming home to Jesus in an Affirmed Church this time. Somewhere between an agnostic and an atheist. Questioning my faith and religion.
    I see Sky Rivers shut up for a while. No comebacks. This suggests I have truth in my way of thinking to some extent.
     
  17. YeshuaRedeemed

    YeshuaRedeemed Revelation 3:10

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    I am a christian because when I asked Jesus why He should be my Lord, He gave me a reason I can understand. Jesus said to me, without Him being my Lord, there is no salvation. A cursory glance at Romans 10:9, is my evidence.
     
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