why are you a creationists?

[robtex]

In my real life I have quite a number of creationists friends. Instead of argueing with them about creationism vs evolution I would ask them why they were creationists. Here are some of the real life answers I got:

Kevin is 21 year old catholic fella when I asked him. He would be 23 now. He was born into a catholic family and knew enough about biology and evolution to realize that evolution suggested random mutation which was a notion at odds with a theistic guided universe. He knew their was a God who guided the universe and since the notion of random mutation is a central theme to the theory of evolution and was in direct conflict with his beliefs he rejected the entire theory. Oddly he acknowledged that DNA were the componets cells were made of.

Carin, once put it to me like this. God created the universe and that is a fact. Everything after that is speculation. Any theory that directly conflicts with the fact that God exists is wrong because God exists. She accepted parts of evolution but rejected much of it. She told me this about a year ago and was 38 than. She was a theist but not a Christian.

Kera is 24 and a working professional. She went into the working world straight out of high school. She put it to me this way. On the day she accpeted Jesus as her savior (her family is not christian) she accpeted the entire package including the Bible. In the Bible God made adam and eve. For the record she has read the entire KJV version of the Bible (I think it was KJV maybe NIV)

Henrix is 45. He is a call center manager. He had a long career in computer repair before that. I found out he was a creationists by accident after explaining Darwin Day to him. He told me that both were equally valid theories but God existed which made evolution the lesser of the two. He knew alot about biology which set him apart from the others in this post. He told me that I believed in evolution based on the same faith he believed in creationism.

I have about 10 or so Islamic friends in austin who have all told me that the Koran states that Allah created the universe and everything in it and that the koran does not mention evolution. It appears to me that maybe more muslims reject evolution than Christians do. They all have exactly the same opinion (the one in this paragraph).

Jay, Julie (and a couple others I am sure fall into the last category) Are lifetime students of the Bible and both have read it countless times. They do not know one another as far as I know. They both see the Bible as the inerrant word of God and genesis says God created Adam and Eve.

Brain a Catholic, said that angels didn't evolve, and if angels didn't evolve there were holes in the theory of evolution. By contrast there is no holes in the catholic canon or the Pope's relationship with God. Meaning the pope (and past popes) talked to God and that information was completely accurate.

So I just wanted to walk on this cybersite and ask the creationists why they are creationists. I see a few like Steve and a couple of Jehovah's witness post but I think most of the creationists don't post their views on here and I was curious as to what they thought and why.

 

[dorcas3000]

ooh this is an interesting question! I'll take a stab at it!

First, I believe in God. I have my reasons for believing in God, but I won't go into them here. I believe the Bible is a testament to the God I believe in, and because of all of my understanding of this God, I am almost required to believe that God created the universe. To believe that God didn't create the universe would contradict the testament the scripture gives as a whole, start to finish. I admit it, it is completely faith!

On that note, I do not believe that Genesis 1 was written as an attempt to explain HOW God created the universe. Instead, it is a statement of faith that God was in fact creator, that he willed it, wanted it, and guided every part of creation with his own hand (in some way). Genesis 1 is written like a psalm, not an academic paper! I find it kind of weird for people to quibble over the meaning of the word "day", and things like that, because that really wasn't the intention of the writer. I have given up trying to merge creationism with science, not because i think science is wrong or that it can't be done, but i find it trivial. My faith in God as creator is unshaken, and there are infinite ways that God could have 'done it.' Who am I to try to figure it out? I'm sure the answer is out there, but why waste my time forming elaborate theories that change daily?

I am all for science and the study of evolution, but I can't stand it when people tell me to my face that I am stupid and ignorant for believing in God, because apparently evolution is some infallable scientific law that proves God doesn't exist. ???????? I don't know everything about evolution, but I know the theory has its strong and weak points. I know I certainly can't proof it to be false, but that doesn't eliminate my right to not accept it as some absolute truth. I know that not all scientists believe in evolution either. Ultimately, I don't think evolution is 'true' in the sense that most people want it to be (if that makes any sense). That, I admit, is my completely biased opinion! Perhaps someday science will prove me wrong, but until that day comes, I have no desire to try to figure out how God could have used evolution. Evolutionary theory has yet to present anything to me that makes me second guess my religious beliefs. If that makes me an ignorant religious person, I guess I can't escape it.

If anyone has questions please ask.

 

[Endless]

Creationist and why?
Put it this way, in this life we have been presented with a lot of facts - and by facts i mean things which are not subject to interpretation. Such as fossils - they are facts, they are simply there, uninterpretated. Mutations - they are facts, uninterpreted, simply there. The things we see them do - simply facts uninterpreted. We observe natural selection causing evolution - we see the changes, these are the facts.
Now, you can simply accept that these things are. Or you can go further and interprete them - looking at the bigger picture. By interprete i mean weave the facts into a theory - put them all together to give something.

Some people put all the facts together and get the theory of evolution - the facts fit.
Some people put all the facts together in a biblical context - the facts fit.

I choose to put them together in a biblical context because i believe they fit perfectly there. Hence a creationist.

 

[JerryL]

I choose to put them together in a biblical context because i believe they fit perfectly there. Hence a creationist.

99% of the field disagrees with you. Why not go ahead and think that you are dreaming the whole thing? It's just as supported and far less contrary.

 

[Endless]

Off topic as far as i am concerned.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Some people put all the facts together in a biblical context - the facts fit.

Six day creation? Birds before beetles? Nonsense.

 

[Endless]

Interpretation of the facts....

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Interpretation of the facts....

Rubbish ...

 

[Endless]

exactly.

 

[robtex]

Of those responding and planning to respond as creationsists, have you found a dicotomy or unreconcilable componets of evolution and upon knowing that God exists, realize that any theory that cannot be reconciled with the reality of your personal higher power's existance must be flawed in places or incorrect as a whole?

 

[michel]

Of those responding and planning to respond as creationsists, have you found a dicotomy or unreconcilable componets of evolution and upon knowing that God exists, realize that any theory that cannot be reconciled with the reality of your personal higher power's existance must be flawed in places or incorrect as a whole?

Well, as you know Rob, I was brought up with no religious beliefs. Imagine my astonishment and disbelief when I first read (and that was probably here on the forum) that people actually believed in creation (as in Genesis), or that the world was only 6000 years old.

Now I do believe that God fits in the whole story somewhere, but I must admit I don't know where. I feel I Know he exists, but that's about all I can say.

 

[sushannah]

My thoughts may sound silly because I don't think much about this subject, but here goes. I think the truth probably lies somewhere in the middle. I believe that G-d created and continues to create. Evolution may be one of the tools G-d uses in the creation process. I think to believe in evolution doesn't have to mean that you don't believe in G-d. I don't think you can ignore that you can find evidence of both.

 

[Mike182]

why am i a creationist? because God made me that way! :biglaugh: sorry, ill be serious. i believe God guided creation through the ways science describes.

 

[robtex]

why am i a creationist? because God made me that way! :biglaugh: sorry, ill be serious. i believe God guided creation through the ways science describes.

That was funny about God making you that way. If you believe God is guiding the universe you are more of a creationist because evolution states that new species are the result of random mutation.

 

[dorcas3000]

isn't 'random' another way of saying 'we have no other evidence that gives an explanation to why these mutations happen, therefore they must be random...' if so, how is that different from saying - 'there's no other evidence to explain why mutations happen therefore it must be God.' How is one statement more credible than the other? There's no 'facts' supporting either one!

 

[St0ne]

Brain a Catholic, said that angels didn't evolve, and if angels didn't evolve there were holes in the theory of evolution. By contrast there is no holes in the catholic canon or the Pope's relationship with God. Meaning the pope (and past popes) talked to God and that information was completely accurate.

I'm not a creationist but that bit there poses a difficult question for Christians who try to reconcile evolution with creationism.

 

[Opethian]

isn't 'random' another way of saying 'we have no other evidence that gives an explanation to why these mutations happen, therefore they must be random...' if so, how is that different from saying - 'there's no other evidence to explain why mutations happen therefore it must be God.' How is one statement more credible than the other? There's no 'facts' supporting either one!

You have a serious misinterpretation here. 'Random' in this context means that the part of the DNA the mutation changes is random (it isn't aimed at any particular gene or base pair, mutations can occur almost everywhere in the DNA, although some places are more prone to it than others). The how and why of the occuring mutations (what you thought was meant by random) is very well understood and described by science, so what you wrote makes no sense at all.

Edit: Dorcian instead of posting ridiculous statements like these on the forums, you could go and buy a biology book that will answer all your questions for you. It is up to you how many gaps you allow for your god to jump into, but wouldn't it be more interesting to have a real answer for them instead of wallowing in creationist ignorance?

 

[Fade]

Some people put all the facts together in a biblical context - the facts fit.

Um, they do? Where?

Such as fossils - they are facts, they are simply there, uninterpretated. Mutations - they are facts, uninterpreted, simply there. The things we see them do - simply facts uninterpreted. We observe natural selection causing evolution - we see the changes, these are the facts.

Where in the Bible are these 'facts' presented? The bible makes no mention of any of them as far as I can see so I fail to see how you connect the two.

I choose to put them together in a biblical context because i believe they fit perfectly there. Hence a creationist.

Again, how? Where are the fossils in the bible? Where is the description of mutation or for that matter natural selection?
The genesis account is completely at odds with the 'facts' presented by cosmology, geology and evolutionary biology. How do you come to the conclusion that they fit perfectly?

Are you YEC or OEC?

 

[Endless]

Let me put it this way - the Bible is the structure of my belief - if it is correct then all the facts will fit my belief system. If not then my belief system must be altered. A fact is simply there - is it something that doesn't have to be interpreted, it is simply there, undeniable. Like fossils - no-one argues they don't exist -because they are there plain to see.
What about the age of the earth? No human was there to witness the earth being formed and to be able to say what age the earth was. Therefore the age of the earth cannot be a fact - it has to be calculated, and because no-one was there, the dating methods have to assume certain things in order to calculate the age. Assumptions are unprovable - we take them on faith. Depending on the assumption, depends on how sure we are that it is correct. The flaw comes when the assumption is based on an already existing belief system - therefore the age of the earth can be made to fit the belief system because of these assumptions. If the belief system is evolution - then you know before hand that the earth has to be millions and millions of years old to give evolution enough time to do all that it has already done. Therefore if the results give a really old date, then you will accept that your assumptions have been correct.
However if your belief system is a young earth and you arrive at a old result - you will recognise your assumptions as incorrect, therefore the result will be incorrect.

I'm not about to go into radio dating but science has tried to find ways of cutting down on these assumptions by new dating methods. Google dating methods and assumptions and see what you come up with. Or better still take a dating method, study how it works, and try and see the assumptions that it works on.

 

[cardero]

why are you a creationists?

Because I am living proof of someone who enjoys to create. That given enough time, enough passion and dedication and I can create something that will either stand the test of time or make an impact or possibly inspire someone’s life. I would safely assume that this is what has driven other creationists in the past. If you have never practiced creating it can become a very difficult concept to explain or convince to someone else.