1. Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Featured Why are so many attached to wealth?

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by Amanaki, Apr 17, 2019.

  1. Amanaki

    Amanaki Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2018
    Messages:
    5,199
    Ratings:
    +2,937
    Religion:
    Cultivator of Buddha Dhamma
    In the world today it seems like if you are not wealthy, good job and wife and kids, then you are not a happy or liked person? Why has the world become so obsessed with physical wealth?
    Personally i have never been a rich person, but t has not bothered me because that is not what i seek.
    But to me it look like so many people only seek wealth and big house, huge cars, and rich friends.
    Why has it become like this?
     
    • Like Like x 2
  2. mistoftime

    mistoftime Member

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2019
    Messages:
    55
    Ratings:
    +54
    Religion:
    none
    Obviously it isn't pleasant to be poor, but having too much money could be as bad. My husband and I are reasonably comfortably off in our old age, due to his hard work, and an inheritance from my parents. However, we spend very little on ourselves, most of it is spent on our adult children, or given to charity.
     
    #2 mistoftime, Apr 17, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2019
    • Like Like x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
  3. TagliatelliMonster

    TagliatelliMonster Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2019
    Messages:
    3,057
    Ratings:
    +2,163
    Religion:
    Atheist
    That's a pretty shallow view.
    A view that, imo, only really lives on "social media".

    Sure, there are people in real life also that will judge a person based on such parameters. We call them "shallow" people.
    In the end, it doesn't matter what other people say. What matters is how you feel and what your own priorities.


    Is it?
    It might be presented as such in media and hollywood. I don't really experience this in the real world, in everyday life.
    Then again, I don't socialise with shallow hipsters and snobs.

    Hollywood and social media, imo
     
  4. Amanaki

    Amanaki Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2018
    Messages:
    5,199
    Ratings:
    +2,937
    Religion:
    Cultivator of Buddha Dhamma
    Hollywood and the media has huge inpact on young people today, we cn see it in schools where "poor" childrens are mocked by the "rich" children for not being good enough, or they say mean things about the parents who struggle evry day to give a little to the child. where the rich parents spoiling the kid with a lot of the most hip things.
    To me that sound like a very cold way of living their life.
     
  5. PureX

    PureX Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2006
    Messages:
    11,817
    Ratings:
    +4,157
    Religion:
    Philosophical Taoist/Christian
    The answer is fear. We are frightened by the fact that we are not in control of our own destinies. So we feel we must 'hedge' against possible misfortune and the suffering it brings us. We aren't satisfied with having what we need, today, to live. We want to pile up 'extra' to hedge against the possibility of not having enough, tomorrow. But this places us in competition with others, who when they see us piling up the 'extra', feel they'd better do the same before we take it all. And the race is on.

    It would be far more effective for we humans to cooperate with each other in producing and sharing the goods, as a hedge against possible misfortune, but we just can't see this. We are blinded by the idea that someone else is getting more than we are, and that we had better take more before it's gone. And right now, it does not appear that we humans are even close to getting past this blinding fear and subsequent greed.
     
    #5 PureX, Apr 17, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2019
    • Winner Winner x 2
    • Like Like x 1
  6. Enoch07

    Enoch07 It's all a sick freaking joke.
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2009
    Messages:
    9,627
    Ratings:
    +2,714
    Religion:
    Theistic Rationalist-Christian
    Foolishness

    The things that are actually important have no value anymore. Family, Love, Loyalty, Patriotism, Honor, Respect, Honesty, Devotion all = p00p to a majority of the world population now. Although there is a small % that do understand these things, but they are few and far between.

    Money, Influence, Power, Victimhood, Entitlement, Lies, Drugs, and Vanity. These are the things that have value. These are the things you sacrifice the old values to obtain.

    Humanity has failed.
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
  7. Amanaki

    Amanaki Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2018
    Messages:
    5,199
    Ratings:
    +2,937
    Religion:
    Cultivator of Buddha Dhamma
    I agree with you that humanity have failed to see the value in how we used to be.
    After the industrial revelution it seems like we gone down hill instead of become more moral. So many people do not look within them self anymore. they dont see the value of spiritual living
     
    • Winner Winner x 2
  8. Firemorphic

    Firemorphic Activist Membrane

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2018
    Messages:
    866
    Ratings:
    +516
    Religion:
    Shia Islam (Twelver)
    Brother Enoch your post spoke to me, it's so damn accurate, hell :disrelieved:
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
  9. LuisDantas

    LuisDantas Aura of atheification
    Staff Member Premium Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2008
    Messages:
    45,718
    Ratings:
    +14,307
    Religion:
    Advocate of letting go of theism. Buddhist with an emphasis on personal understanding.
    Wealth is essentially a promise of access to things that we do not necessarily know that we want or understand, without any particularly need for planning or clear goals.

    In that sense it can be reassuring, or at least alluring.

    Pursuing wealth can be a coping mechanism for avoiding the anxiety of having no clear goals.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  10. Skwim

    Skwim Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2010
    Messages:
    26,303
    Ratings:
    +10,436
    Religion:
    Agnostic
    For some people wealth is a means to keep score, which often has the added benefit bringing/increasing happiness.

    .


    .
     
  11. TagliatelliMonster

    TagliatelliMonster Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2019
    Messages:
    3,057
    Ratings:
    +2,163
    Religion:
    Atheist
    That was also the case when I was in high school and the internet didn't even exist then.
    So I don't think you can blame that on media.

    I blame it completely on parenting failure.
    There was a rich kid in my class. He drove a car that cost as much as the cars of all our teachers combined. The guy was clearly spoiled and the values he thought were important, were obviously extremely off the mark. These are values that he got from his parents who's idea of parenting was giving the dude whatever he wanted whenever he wanted it - no matter the cost.

    I'll go a step further.....
    Even in this day and age, with all that internet media, kids eventually grow up with the values that they are taught by their parents. If these kids turn out to being spoiled brats who think money (and spending money) is how you evaluate your worth and life, then that is only so because the parents allowed it to go down that route.

    To me, it really is that simple.

    A nice of my dad ended up marrying a billionaire. She is a second generation immigrant. She comes from a very poor home. While she off course enjoys this new wealth, she is also really paranoid about how her kids will end up growing up in such wealth. So she goes out of her way to make it clear to those kids that they are not living a normal life and are very lucky. That the vast vast majority of people have to work very hard every day for their middle class income.

    And honestly, it shows. If you are around those kids and don't know who their parents are, you'ld never know that they have their own private swimming pool and movie theater at their house or that their dad owns a bentley and a lamborghini. And they do live like the rich people that they are....

    They live in a ginormous 6-bathroom mansion, spend their holidays in exclusive resorts in places like Dubai etc. And still, these kids are humble, respectfull and will never judge someone for being not rich. Neither will they be picking and choosing their friends based on what their parents earn.

    More even.... They can't stand their rich cousins precisely because they are such spoiled rich brats. Their values and priorities are all wrong. And it's 100% the parents that are to blame for that. They failed to educate their kids properly. They failed to teach them humility and respect. The word "no" doesn't seem to be part of their vocabulary. Whatever the kids ask, they recieve.

    As opposed to the kids of my dad's niece... I remember this one time where their son was mad. He wanted to have a €12 DVD of some kids movie and he couldn't have it. Not because he was punished or whatever. His mother just felt like he already had enough DVD's. That's it. The same reason why so many kids don't get whatever toy or dvd they would want to have. Not because there is not enough money, not because they were punished... but simply because you simply don't always give kids whatever they want whenever they want.

    It is.

    Many rich people seem to behave this way. I think it's simple lazyness. Indeed, if your kid is crying over some toy he wants to have... it's easy to shut him up by just buying it. If you have millions of dollars, it's no big deal at all to buy some toys. It's the easy way out.

    Unfortunatly, it gives extremely wrong signals to the kids. And they grow up to be total jerks.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  12. Amanaki

    Amanaki Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2018
    Messages:
    5,199
    Ratings:
    +2,937
    Religion:
    Cultivator of Buddha Dhamma
    Exactly what you wrote here is the reason why i see that our human society is in decline, We are not doing better, we are actually doing worse then before, because human race now lack Morality and ethics. But feed on, jealosy, hate, greed, anger, envy, and so on, and to me that sound like a wrong way to go.
     
  13. HonestJoe

    HonestJoe Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2010
    Messages:
    3,493
    Ratings:
    +1,862
    Religion:
    None
    I think I may have mentioned this before in relation to other questions you’ve asked but you always seem to be presenting the negative view of things being (and continuing to get) worse than in the past without actually identifying any time period you’re comparing to or demonstrating any actual measurable change. As I see it, this is just another function of human nature and I see no reason why it would significantly shift from generation to generation, the only changes being how it is expressed and, significantly, how public, prominent and well recorded that expression happens to be.
     
  14. Amanaki

    Amanaki Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2018
    Messages:
    5,199
    Ratings:
    +2,937
    Religion:
    Cultivator of Buddha Dhamma
    The problem i see is that many people get more and more blind toward the negativity that arise around them, the negative become the norm. and i can not let that pass without try to open peoples eyes.
    Do people not see that what we do today is more damaging to us then when people used to be spiritual awake? Yes there has always been "blind" people who do not see the truth of where things goes. But now all that people focus on is showing to others how successful they are. Success does not happen with money, it happens within (n my honest opinion). The spiritual life people lived before example when Buddha or Jesus was here to teach, that does for the most part not happen anymore, because now it is more about refusing and debunk those great enlighten masters.instead of study the scrptures and listen to the good teachings about what is actually important in life.

    As a buddhist i do not see value in physical things, only value in inner wisdom and the knowledge about how to end samsara (rebirth)
     
  15. HonestJoe

    HonestJoe Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2010
    Messages:
    3,493
    Ratings:
    +1,862
    Religion:
    None
    Convenient. Anyone who disagrees with your view of the world can be dismissed as being blind to the facts.

    No, I seriously don’t, not least because you’ve still done literally nothing to back up your assertions. You’re just making definitive statements and expect us all to blindly (ironically) agree with you. “Spiritually awake” is an indistinct phrase very much open to interpretation and the idea that whatever it actually means is automatically and unconditionally positive yet to be demonstrated.

    You clearly have an underlying intention here, the idea of “spirituality” (specifically thinking of your particular interpretation over any conflicting alternatives of course) as being automatically good and so you present the idea of there being more spirituality and a better world in the past and less spirituality and a worse world today. The main problem is that you’ve not supported any of the implied claims there; that spirituality has decreased, that general “goodness” has decreased or that there is any direct causation between the two.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  16. Vinayaka

    Vinayaka devotee
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2011
    Messages:
    28,373
    Ratings:
    +12,551
    Religion:
    Saivite Hindu
    Yesterday I clicked on one of those click bait things. It was about rich peoples houses. I was surprised o see how moderate many of them were. Yes there were some who were ridiculously extravagant, but many weren't as well. I think it may be unfair generalisation to categorise it as 'many'. Lots of folks work hard, become doctors, actors, pro athletes, and the going rate for salary happens to be high. They don't even really determine that salary, but they accept it, and then buy a nice house, and a nice car, but not to excess. These aren't the ones we notice.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  17. Amanaki

    Amanaki Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2018
    Messages:
    5,199
    Ratings:
    +2,937
    Religion:
    Cultivator of Buddha Dhamma
    If people do not agree with me that it totally fint, i have no intention of doing things differently in what i say here, because i only speak from my own understanding and spiritual cultivation. If you do not like what i write or disagree, no problem.

    As a buddhist i see life thru the teaching and my own experiences from living this life. And from what i see people today are more obsessed with owning expensive things then they are of being spiritual curiouse. fewer and fewer people go to the religious houses around the world, more and more of the spiritual teaching has been removed from schools. People do not seem to value the moral code that religions teaches.
    When a spiritual teacher speak today, there are many who reject his/her teaching because why would they follow some set guidelines? that is difficult for them because they want to be "free"

    For those people who still care about a spiritual way of life, they do see that nothing in the physical world can give them the freedom that the religious path can, And no i do not talk about the extremists who do wrong so often, they can not be seen as very spiritual anyway.

    To be spiritual means (to me) to be able to help others who struggle in the world, it means being good to anyone, even they tread me with evil. I do not want to be one who do evil to others. Why would i hate someone? the buddhist teachings teaches that we should see each others as same, because there is no different to be a human being from Norway, USA, China, Bolivia or other places on the planet. We are all human beings, and we need to see that we can help each others out of suffering with being Good and nice to each others.

    When Buddha or Jesus was on earth, they was teaching people to be good,but also that time there was people who did not wanted to listen. Following a spiritual path means to highten once own morality to be a good example for others, it does not teach us to be greedy, hateful or jealoues. it teach that if we do treat others with respect and love, that is what we will recieve too. But today when we try to explain what is a good path, a few people will spit in our faces because they hate to hear that there is a better way to live.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  18. TagliatelliMonster

    TagliatelliMonster Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2019
    Messages:
    3,057
    Ratings:
    +2,163
    Religion:
    Atheist
    That implies that it's a "modern" thing to spoil kids when you are rich.
    That's obvious nonsense. Rich people have been spoiling their kids since antiquity.

    At best you can say that it's easier to get rich today's capitalist society as opposed to the cast societies of old, and that in that sense, shallowness is more frequent.

    I think losing touch with "the middle class" and the real important things in life is a very easy trap to fall into once you gain wealth and power.

    I don't see any evidence at all that this is supposedly some modern phenomena and/or that it is more common today then before.

    What's your evidence for this claim?
    Because I'm kind of observing the exact opposite.... society as a whole seems to me to being a lot more moral and ethical then back in the day.

    In fact, the further back in time we go, the more barbaric you'll find society to be.

    Sounds like you are just complaining about stereotypical human weaknesses, which is a thing of all ages - not just modern times. In fact, read the bible. These properties you list are SO stereotypical of humans that the authors of the bible even ascribe such properties to their deity. Jawhe is constantly jealous etc. So jealous and petty even, that he felt it necessary to make 4 out of the 10 commandments about JUST accomodating his jealousy, envy and narcism.

    Exactly the properties I would expect in a "god" invented by humans and portrayed as a "super human".
     
    • Winner Winner x 2
    • Like Like x 1
  19. Stevicus

    Stevicus Well-Known Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2011
    Messages:
    8,615
    Ratings:
    +4,186
    Religion:
    Agnostic
    I'm not sure if it's really that much different from previous eras, although one thing that seems clear is that people are a lot more brazen and cynical about wealth these days. That is, the bottom line of how much a person has is all that really matters in many people's eyes, regardless of how one became so wealthy.

    One can be a drug kingpin, a Wall Street raider, an exiled former dictator, a retired mobster - yet still viewed as morally equal to anyone else at that level of wealth. Indeed, there might be a question as to whether anyone with such an amount of money actually earned it honorably, ethically, or legally. But either way, most people don't seem to care about that anymore. All that matters is the bottom line.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
  20. TagliatelliMonster

    TagliatelliMonster Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2019
    Messages:
    3,057
    Ratings:
    +2,163
    Religion:
    Atheist
    In my experience, how the wealth was gathered is usually reflected in their overall behaviour.

    Someone who started out "poor" or as middle class and worked his way up to becoming a billionaire simply by putting in the hard work, doing what needs to be done, and most likely also being lucky enough to have made the right decisions at the right time... in my experience such people will usually understand the value of a single dollar, be humble enough to remember where (s)he comes from and what it took exactly to get where (s)he is today. These are the people that will have much respect for the mailman, the garbage collector and the hamburger flipper.

    As for those that are rich simply because the parents were rich and didn't care to properly educate their kid...
    Not so much.


    Off course I'm painting a stereotype here. I'm kind of forced due to the topic.
    Obviously you'll find "exceptions" to these stereotypes everywhere.
     
    • Like Like x 1
Loading...