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Featured Why are people afraid of creationism?

Discussion in 'Evolution Vs. Creationism' started by Shakeel, Jun 2, 2021.

  1. Neuropteron

    Neuropteron Active Member

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  2. Clara Tea

    Clara Tea Well-Known Member

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    Creationists want to teach creationism in school. This violates the separation of church and state. Creationists argue that teaching evolution is a religion, and that, too, violates the separation of church and state. Evolutionists believe that it is science, not religion.

    In the dark ages, scientists were tortured to death and forced to recant or forced to agree with the church. Books were burned, and many were considered sinful or frivolous. Reverend Savonarolla's Bonfire of the Vanities burned books. This kept the world ignorant for hundreds of years.

    Science, which just almost cured COVID, works. Notice that the Vatican restricted travel, not trusting that God would keep them safe. They had more faith in common sense measures than in God.

    Creationists took over politics and voted in Republicans (Reagan and Bush Sr.....Iran Contra scandal). Reagan (as governor of California) ordered the National Guard to beat Berkeley students over the heads with billy clubs if they protested the war in Vietnam. (Bush Jr....wars and torture camp, environmental damage and greed--lower taxes for the rich). This is partly the reason that people fear creationists today. It is not because they object to the kindnesses of Christianity, it is because they don't feel that Christians follow Christ. "Thou shalt not kill" yet there is war.
     
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  3. Clara Tea

    Clara Tea Well-Known Member

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    Most theists here are not scientists, and their arguments (presumably based on science) don't seem valid to real scientists.

    However, there are some very famous scientists who, nonetheless, remain theists.

    Many theists are awestruck by the complexity of life. Thus, you might see a lot of doctors who insist that there must be a God intelligently designing life.

    My mom's cardiologist said that in his 50 years of practice he has seen a lot of out of body experiences of people whose hearts stopped. He says that they recounted in full detail, conversations in other rooms of the hospital that they could not possibly have heard as they claim that their spirit roamed the halls. Highly educated, not brought up religious, yet, with no other way to explain events, he turned to religion.
     
  4. sealchan

    sealchan Well-Known Member

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    Creationism often hangs out with literalism and there is plenty to be afraid of when literalists carry political power. Divorced as they tend to be from a propercredpect for science.
     
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  5. danieldemol

    danieldemol Well-Known Member
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    Energy and power are different.
    Power is the amount of energy transferred or converted per unit of time.

    If energy always existed why does one need a God to convert it at all since it appears to convert naturally?
     
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  6. TagliatelliMonster

    TagliatelliMonster Veteran Member

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    I can only inform you that you are wrong.

    I can again only inform you that you are wrong.

    I understand the arguments very well.
    The problem is that you don't mind using logical fallacies and don't particularly care when you are shown to be incorrect.

    I can't even count the amount of times that people corrected your strawmen and fallacious nonsense, only to see you repeat the same exposed nonsense a couple posts / days later.
     
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  7. TagliatelliMonster

    TagliatelliMonster Veteran Member

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    Indeed. Personally, I haven't ever met a creationist (including on this site) who simply states his / her beliefs are 100% bible based, while acknowledging that the science of biology draws a different picture.

    No. Every single one of them will argue against the science of evolution, claiming that it is not proper science and thereby thus implying (or literally stating) that their opposition to evolution is science-based.

    At best, I've seen creationists state both. That they 1. follow the bible and 2. argue against evolution from a supposed scientific point of view.


    I also notice that the extreme vast majority of creationists who argue against evolution, don't know the first thing about it.

    The most common hint for that, is that they'll say that "we never see species changing kinds" in the sense of dogs evolving into cats or alike. Or they'll say silly things like "finches are still birds!!!!" as if that is an argument against evolution.

    They'll imply that if they would see finches evolve into non-birds, then that's when they will consider evolution to be accurate. Ironically, if we would see such a thing, evolution theory would actually be disproven.

    This is the level of ignorance of your average creationist....
    The evidence they demand to see in support of evolution, is actually evidence that would disprove it.
     
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  8. TagliatelliMonster

    TagliatelliMonster Veteran Member

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    So really, a classic textbook case of argument from ignorance.
     
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  9. Shakeel

    Shakeel Well-Known Member

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    I'm not sure I do. I haven't really thought about it. This isn't about me wanting it to be taught in school since if it was it would be biblical and I don't want that. This is rather about the principle behind opposing it.
    There should be no seperation between the church and the state of a country if it was to be genuinely Christian. This is just another example of hypocrisy.

    One is either a Christian or is not a Christian.
    Who are these people?
    Do they look to the left and right before crossing the road too?!
     
  10. Shakeel

    Shakeel Well-Known Member

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    @Neuropteron
    How do you know energy is God's attribute? You are proposing God didn't create from nothing, but from something. If God needs something to create from then He is needy. Who created the energy? Or do you suggest God created from a portion of Himself?
     
  11. Shakeel

    Shakeel Well-Known Member

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    That implies religious people are less intelligent or are more inclined to illogical thinking. But there is no proof for that in your psychological studies, is there?
    You would have to ask those aquinted with the evolution theory at which point did the chickens become true chickens.
     
  12. TagliatelliMonster

    TagliatelliMonster Veteran Member

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    Secular democracies aren't "genuinely christian". Instead, they are "genuinely secular".

    Creationists. There are plenty of them on this very forum.
     
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  13. Shakeel

    Shakeel Well-Known Member

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    The bird must have resembled what was in the egg. Or did a dinosaur lay the first chicken?
     
  14. TagliatelliMonster

    TagliatelliMonster Veteran Member

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    Loaded question.
    1. it assumes energy required being created
    2. it assumes it required a "who" to do it
     
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  15. TagliatelliMonster

    TagliatelliMonster Veteran Member

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    Well, religious people are more inclined to illogical thinking.
    As for intelligence, that is not the case.

    It is however true that the higher one is educated, the least likely one is to be (or remain) religious.
    But educated and intelligent, aren't synonyms.

    It's perfectly possible to be extremely intelligent, yet uneducated.
    Or vice versa.


    One doesn't require proof / evidence for claims one isn't even making.

    At no point. Evolution is a gradual process. There is no "first chicken". In exactly the same way as there is no "first french speaker".
     
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  16. TagliatelliMonster

    TagliatelliMonster Veteran Member

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    Again, there is no "first" chicken.
    Gradual processes don't work like that.
     
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  17. Faithofchristian

    Faithofchristian Well-Known Member

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    You being a Muslim and me being a Christian we do have some common ground that we believe in..

    In the Bible it's written in
    1 Timothy 6:19-21,
    19--"Laying up in store for themselves a good foundation against the time to come, that they may lay hold on eternal life.

    20 O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called:

    21 Which some professing have erred concerning the faith. Grace be with thee. Amen"

    What this means is.
    Science is good as long as stays within the boundaries of what science is to be.
    Once science over steps it's boundaries, then it becomes false science..
    Which some in science have erred from the faith that was once delivered unto them..

    God ( Allah) is the Supreme being of all things created in heaven and Earth.
    It's when science over steps it's boundaries.then it becomes false science.

    To further add, this where science over steps it's boundaries, by saying man came from monkeys,
    Allah ( God) created man in his own image after his own likeness....
    There's nothing impossible with
    God ( Allah) for all things are possible with
    Allah ( God)....
     
  18. Mock Turtle

    Mock Turtle Silent Generation - so don't expect much
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    Perhaps both, but probably more the latter?

    https://phys.org/news/2016-03-conflict-science-religion-lies-brains.html

    To believe in a supernatural god or universal spirit, people appear to suppress the brain network used for analytical thinking and engage the empathetic network, the scientists say. When thinking analytically about the physical world, people appear to do the opposite. "When there's a question of faith, from the analytic point of view, it may seem absurd," said Tony Jack, who led the research. "But, from what we understand about the brain, the leap of faith to belief in the supernatural amounts to pushing aside the critical/analytical way of thinking to help us achieve greater social and emotional insight." Jack is an associate professor of philosophy at Case Western Reserve and research director of the university's Inamori International Center of Ethics and Excellence, which helped sponsor the research. "A stream of research in cognitive psychology has shown and claims that people who have faith (i.e., are religious or spiritual) are not as smart as others. They actually might claim they are less intelligent.," said Richard Boyatzis, distinguished university professor and professor of organizational behavior at Case Western Reserve, and a member of Jack's team. "Our studies confirmed that statistical relationship, but at the same time showed that people with faith are more prosocial and empathic," he said. In a series of eight experiments, the researchers found the more empathetic the person, the more likely he or she is religious.
     
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  19. Viker

    Viker Filia Diaboli, in a shroud of metaphor and mystery

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    I'm not afraid of creationism. I'm more afraid of the murder of science and reason.
     
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  20. TagliatelliMonster

    TagliatelliMonster Veteran Member

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    So what do you think are those boundaries and why?
     
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