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Why are most terrorists Sunni Muslims?

Shad

Veteran Member
Considering there are way more Sunni Muslims than Shia (about 10 - 13% of all Muslims), then we could expect the majority of Islamic terrorists to be Sunni.

That isn't a very good argument. Far better to point out Sunni Islam at this time has far more radical sources, views and figures with the greater scope of "Sunni". It could be more prone for nominal members become radical than Shia via the above.
 

Sha'irullah

رسول الآلهة
Sunniyya makes up the majority of Islam, simple as that.

Also Sunni are quicker hence their name. "I will blow myself up very Sunni!"
 

Buddha Dharma

Dharma Practitioner
There have been Buddhist terrorists.

This may deserve it's own thread, if you want to start one. I'd have to explain what isn't terrorism in a historical context.

In short: Buddhists must defend the Sublime Dharma, and are permitted to do so against it's annihilation by a hostile force. We believe the words of the Blessed One are the truth of salvation, or at least- a Buddhist SHOULD believe that.

The Blessed One's Dharma is our treasure. It is not expounded in hundreds of millions of kalpas some have said, but now we hear, receive, guard, and maintain it.
 
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Vouthon

Dominus Deus tuus ignis consumens est
Staff member
Premium Member
@ronki23 I wonder how many of the respondents on your thread are actually familiar with the intricate differences between Sunni and Shi'ite Islam concerning jihad and hudud. There is a major distinction in doctrine that seems to have gone unnoticed.

What I'm going to give you is the plain truth, not the bias one hears on the one hand from people with ingrained bigotry against Islam in general, (i.e. Robert Spencer and his ilk) , and on the other hand those acting as apologists for the religion.

Both camps are in error:


Shia Islam

Simply put, the main branch of Shi'ite Islam (the Twelver) eventually dropped the idea of offensive holy war - a staple trope of all schools of classical Islam - after the occultation of the Twelfth Imam in 874. Only the rightly-guided, divinely appointed successor and descendant of the Prophet Muhammad was thought to have had the wisdom to decide when to launch an offensive conflict against the Dar-al-harb (unbelieving world), which meant that until he returned (in a sort of quasi-messianic reveal) - Shi'ite Muslims were permitted to wage nothing but defensive wars. Of course, the Imam didn't return and hasn't returned which effectively means that offensive war is alien to the Shi'ite tradition.

Additionally, an intellectual current of "political quietism" developed as a consequence of this occultation and centuries in which Shi'ites existed on the margins of vast Sunni caliphates like the Umayyads and the Abbasids, as a persecuted minority branch of Islam (the Fatimid caliphate and the Safavid dynasty in 17th century Iran, notwithstanding). Without their Imam to guide them as supreme legislator and jurist, many Shi'ites simply learned to be quiet in the face of political strife while the Shi'ite ulama (clerics) in the seminaries became disinterested in involving themselves directly in matters of secular governance, because Islamic government under the shariah law could not be established until the return of Imam az-Zaman. Accordingly, a major branch of Shi'ism traditionally taught that the hudud punishments - including stoning, crucifixion, amputation etc. - are not to be implemented in the absence of the infallible Imam and clerics are to remain far away from the reins of political power:


al-monitor.com/pulse/originals/2013/06/islamic-punishment-iran.html


Punishments included in the Islamic penal code, such as stoning and dismemberment, were once common practice among many tribes in ancient times. Yet prior to the Islamic Revolution in Iran, such practices were banned in Shiite Islamic jurisprudence. The authority to implement such punitive measures was reserved for the infallible Shiite imams.

Islamic jurisprudence is an expansion of the Islamic code of conduct known as "sharia."...

Ayatollah Ahmad Khansari, one of Iran’s prominent religious authorities, has unequivocally stated that the implementation of such punishments during the absence of the 12th Shiite Imam is haram, or religiously forbidden. A decision that was unanimously supported by all Shia faqihs at the time...

Ayatollah Abu al-Qasim al-Khoei, the teacher of current Grand Ayatollahs at the Qom and Najaf seminaries, as well as the most distinguished Islamic jurist of recent times, has denied the validity of the theory of rule of jurisprudence. Accordingly, he believes punishments such as stoning for adultery and sodomy, execution for apostasy and insulting the prophet, are forbidden
. He believes a faqih can act as a mediator in judicial disputes, or even take on a humanitarian role and help with issues of orphan guardianship.

Nevertheless, Iran’s legal system has formally adopted the aforementioned punishments, sentencing individuals accused of adultery, sodomy and apostasy to stonings, beheadings or executions.

These punishments are carried out based on the new — as far as Shiite jurisprudence is concerned — idea of the rule of jurisprudence.
According to this theory, first propounded by Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini in his 1970 book Velayat-e Faqih, all the religious authority of the prophet and the Shiite imams is bestowed upon a supreme source of emulation.


This doctrine of political quietism was only challenged and undermined in late twentieth century Iran (not Iraq, Azerbaijan and other Shi'ite countries) with the marxist-influenced militancy of Ali Shariati, a lay Shi'ite intellectual widely remembered as "the ideologue of the Iranian Revolution of 1979", and the millenarian-theocratic Vilayat-e Faqih theory of Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini. They both advocated revolutionary Islam - as Shariati often said, “Every day is Ashoura, every place is Karbala" (referring to the martyrdom of Imam al Husain as a model not just for piety but social upheaval) - and argued that a good society would conform to Islamic values: explicitly rejecting the quietist tendencies of most Shia ulama of their time by claiming clerics should play a leadership role in guiding society.

Khomeini's revolution transformed Shi'ite theology by contending that a ruling faqih (jurist - Khomeini himself as Supreme Leader) could issue hudud and essentially act like the Imam in his absence.

Today, Ayatollah Sistani and the other grand ayatollahs of Najaf in Iraq - Muhammad Ishaq al Fayyad, Bashir al-Najafi al-Pakistani, and Saidal-Hakim - adhere to the traditional quietism, and are in theological friction with the cadre of ruling mullahs in Iran.


Sunni Islam

In terms of Sunni theology and jurisprudence, it is important to distinguish between


(1) offensive 'jihad' as conceived of in the military sense of a holy war against unbelieving societies not part of the House of Islam

(2) deliberate, indiscriminate acts of terror targeted towards civilians outside any military context.

The former is very much part of classical Sunni theology, because unlike the Shi'i Imam a secular military leader (caliph) can summon Muslims to fight against the kafir even if there were no acts of aggression from the unbelievers to justify it, their mere "unbelief" was viewed as sufficient for a permanent state of war between the Islamic world and the heathen world until the House of Islam prevailed (i.e. not to convert everyone to Islam but rather to establish Islamic governments everywhere worldwide, with non-believers living as dhimmis in a Muslim society or outside the borders of the caliphate paying a tribute). Indeed this was understood to be an obligation binding upon the ummah. It shouldn't be denied and Islamic scholars need to do a better job of squaring it with modern pluralism.

However, no. 2 isn't part of classical Sunni Islam. Indiscriminate acts of terror against civilians are not part of classical Islamic theology.

There was a generally held consensus on the nature of jihad from all four schools of medieval Sunni Islamic jurisprudence (i.e., Maliki, Hanbali, Hanafi, and Shafi'i) to the effect that non-combatants who did not participate in fighting should not be killed in the prosecution of a holy war. Abu Bakr al-Siddiq, the first Sunni Caliph, established the general code of conduct in the following address to his Islamic armies:

I instruct you in ten matters: Do not commit treachery or deviate from the right path. You must not mutilate dead bodies. Neither kill a child, nor a woman, nor an aged man. You are likely to pass by people who have devoted their lives to monastic services; leave them alone..."

(Source: Imam Malik’s compilation of the Hadith “Kitab al-Jihad.”)

I could quote many others who reiterate the same broad doctrinal interpretation.

Consider this scholarly assessment of the laws of war from Shaikh Burhanuddin Ali of Marghinan (d. 1196), a famous medieval Hanafi jurist:


"...It does not become Muslims to break treaties or to act unfairly with respect to plunder or to disfigure people (by cutting off their ears and noses, and so forth). In the same manner it does not become Muslims to slay women or children, or men aged, bedridden, or blind, because opposition and fighting are the only occasions which make slaughter allowable (according to our doctors), and such persons are incapable of these. For the same reason also the paralytic are not to be slain, nor those who are dismembered.

Whence it is evident that mere infidelity (unbelief in Islam) is not a justifiable occasion of slaughter. The Prophet, moreover, forbade the slaying of infants or single persons, and once, when the Prophet saw a woman who was slain, he said, ‘Alas! This woman did not fight, why, therefore, was she slain?’..."


The most militant jihadists in the early Islamic community (who, much like ISIS today, regarded other Muslim sects even as 'kufar' and believed that civilians were legitimate targets during a military offensive) were rebels against the Ummayyad Caliphate, a heretical faction castigated by the orthodox ulema (clerics) as "Kharijites".

The Kharijites spread terror among the nascent Islamic communities, courtesy of their radical approach of Takfir, whereby they declared other Muslims to be unbelievers and therefore deemed them worthy of death. The historians al-Tabari and Ibn Kathir chronicle precise accounts of their intimidation, violence and terror. Under the events of 37H/657CE they detail how the sect began terrorizing the countryside around Nahrawan, Iraq, subjecting those whom they caught to an imtihan or “inquisition”. If the victims failed to satisfy their zeal for purity, or agree with their understanding of theology, then the punishment was death.

Members of the Islamic State (IS) have often been described as modern-age Kharijites. In fact, in addition to Daesh, that's the name they are often known by in Islamic countries. My point being: the theology promoted by ISIS is not really an innovation. It is not by any margin "traditional" Islam as you would have found in the 18th century Ottoman Empire but its essentials (if not the finer edges of its barbarism) have precedent in the Islamic world.

And since the nineteenth century, Islamist theologies of whatever variety - Wahabi, Deobandi, Salafi - have been proliferating. Radical Islamism as we know it today is rooted in the Salafi movement, which rejects Islamic tradition and tries to go back to an idealized early Islam. That's not to say that traditional Islam couldn't be violent as well but it had clearly defined moral limits lacking in modern day ISIS or the early Kharijites.

But while classical Sunni Islam did not advocate acts of terror against civilians it did permit and indeed obligate offensive jihad against unbelieving countries, in a permanent state of war except (according to more moderate interpretations) if the unbelieving society paid tribute and signed a nonaggression treaty for a defined period, whereas Shi'ia Islam essentially abandoned offensive jihad following the occulation of the Twelfth Imam.

Modern Sunni extremists draw upon this "offensive jihad" strain in classical Islam and the heretical Kharijites - filtered through Salafism - to justify indiscriminate slaughter of civilians.

I hope you found this overview helpful.
 
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ronki23

Well-Known Member
So how do you define: wahabbi, salafi, Qutbi and deobandi Islam? What differentiates them as they're all Sunni and they're interchangeable terms:

Saudi Arabia is Wahhabbi
ISIS is Salafi
Al Qaeda is Qutbi
Taliban are Deobandi

Salafi and Wahhabbi are interchangeable terms yet ISIS hate Saudi Arabia even though Saudi Arabia also has poor human rights for non-Muslims.

ISIS was born from Al Qaeda yet they chose Abu Bakr Al-Baghdadi over Ayman al-Zawahiri. Technically wouldn't ISIS be a Shia group if they pledge allegiance to Al Baghdadi who they view as the successor and blood relative of Muhammad?

Taliban are Deobandi and Al Qaeda are Qutb. bin Laden married one of Mullah Omar's daughters while Mullah Omar married one of bin Laden's daughters. How can each of them simultaneously be son-in-law and father-in-law of the other one????
 

Shia Islam

Quran and Ahlul-Bayt a.s.
Premium Member
Osama bin Laden
Ayman Al Zawahiri
Mullah Omar
Abu Bakr al Baghdadi
Sayyid Qutb
Yassin (debatable as he could be argued to be a freedom fighter but I'd give that label to Arafat)

In Sunni majority countries there is no freedom of religion and the apostasy from Islam is death. Most Sunni majority countries want to wipe out Israel.

I'm not saying Shias are perfect but in Iran they have one of the largest Jewish communities in the world and there aren't many Shia terrorist groups except Hezbollah. Bahrain and Lebanon are ok and they're Shia countries.

Shia Islam also makes more sense

This is a very important observation..

It has nothing to do with the fact that the Sunnis are the majority of the Muslims..

To understand the Issue, a deep understanding of the political thoughts of the Shias and the Sunnis is required..

In Shia Islam, their political thought is under the umbrella that: it's not for the Humans to appoint someone and call him a "caliph" and give him almost unlimited authorities..

They believe that people with such authorities are only the prophets and the vicegerents of the prophets like "king David" of Israel, and the 12 Imams in Islam.

The Sunnis on the other hand, believe that anyone who can conquest the Muslim land with force can declare himself a "Caliph" and the Muslims must obey him!

They have two main ancient books in which they state their political thoughts..

Both of the books hold the same name:

Al-Ahkam al-Sultania (The Ordinances of Government). One of them is by al Al-Mawardi. And the other one is by another man who is following the Hanbali Fiqh school.

Both of the books are almost the same. It is clearly that one of them has stolen from the other!
 

Grandliseur

Well-Known Member
It wasn't that long ago that many terrorists were Catholic and Protestant Christians in Ireland. There have been Buddhist terrorists.
When a minority fights an overwhelmingly strong opponent, such tactics are the only ones left. In WWII, the hit and run on the German occupying forces worked too well to be forgotten after the war.

Thus, one man's terrorist is another's hero. The indiscriminate terror of Muslims on nearly all countries where they move to seems to be another level. They just seem to want to kill anyone, even fellow Muslim.

The British have committed genocide and whatnot. They should not think that there is no reward for their own terror which they have committed in so many places over the years.
 

Sha'irullah

رسول الآلهة
So how do you define: wahabbi, salafi, Qutbi and deobandi Islam? What differentiates them as they're all Sunni and they're interchangeable terms:

Saudi Arabia is Wahhabbi
ISIS is Salafi
Al Qaeda is Qutbi
Taliban are Deobandi

Salafi and Wahhabbi are interchangeable terms yet ISIS hate Saudi Arabia even though Saudi Arabia also has poor human rights for non-Muslims.

ISIS was born from Al Qaeda yet they chose Abu Bakr Al-Baghdadi over Ayman al-Zawahiri. Technically wouldn't ISIS be a Shia group if they pledge allegiance to Al Baghdadi who they view as the successor and blood relative of Muhammad?

Taliban are Deobandi and Al Qaeda are Qutb. bin Laden married one of Mullah Omar's daughters while Mullah Omar married one of bin Laden's daughters. How can each of them simultaneously be son-in-law and father-in-law of the other one????

These are all religious movements and are all Sunni. They have no differing views from Sunni Islam as they ARE Sunni Islam.

One's political movement and circumstance does not change their theology and practice of Islam to the point it lacks its legalistic power.
 

LionLooking

Member
The indiscriminate terror of Muslims on nearly all countries where they move to seems to be another level. They just seem to want to kill anyone, even fellow Muslim.
SOME Muslims - or should we condemn all Christians? After all, they have committed vile acts in every country they live in. Of course not! That would be a stupid thing to do - just like condemning Muslims because of the acts of a few is stupid.

The British have committed genocide and whatnot.
As hve the French, the Americans, the Germans, the Russians.... Why single out the British?
They should not think that there is no reward for their own terror which they have committed in so many places over the years.
America had better watch out then, after their empire falls (no long now) - if you are right, they'll be repercussions.
 

Grandliseur

Well-Known Member
SOME Muslims - or should we condemn all Christians? After all, they have committed vile acts in every country they live in. Of course not! That would be a stupid thing to do - just like condemning Muslims because of the acts of a few is stupid.
If you knew some of my posts on this subject, you would know that I have lived in a community made up mostly of Muslim. Most of the ones in my apartment staircase were Muslim, and though they kept to themselves, they always tried to be cordial. One I knew tried to help the ones in need, whether Muslim or native person. Unfortunately, at the same time (Europe) we had an influx of refugees - then began the violence and the rapes, in several countries.

So, while many simply want to live, work and take care of their families, many of the new ones don't. On top of this, if they see a young woman that dresses in ways Muslim women don't - they think they can rape and violate these just because they don't behave like women do in the countries they come from. These scumbags should be castrated, have their balls put in their mouths and shot, or be infused with pigs blood.

The well behaved ones who just try to take care of their families are welcome in my opinion.
 

Grandliseur

Well-Known Member
As hve the French, the Americans, the Germans, the Russians.... Why single out the British?
America had better watch out then, after their empire falls (no long now) - if you are right, they'll be repercussions.
I have in other post addressed the genocide of the Turks, the Germans before Hitler, Britain, and others.

I am a strong believer in God and he shall pay us all back, even countries, for the evil we do. But, those who do evil shall all get what God does to evil ones. There is a scripture in the Bible, one says, "there is no wisdom in opposition to God" - this I believe; also, "
(Ecclesiastes 8:8) . . .And wickedness will provide no escape for those indulging in it."

This is what shall happen to us all:
Psalm 62:12 12 Also loving-kindness belongs to you, O Jehovah, For you yourself pay back to each one according to his work.

Psalm 18:25-27 25 With someone loyal you will act in loyalty; With the faultless, able-bodied man you will deal faultlessly; 26 With the one keeping clean you will show yourself clean; And with the crooked one you will show yourself tortuous; 27 Because the afflicted people you yourself will save; But the haughty eyes you will abase.​

So, if we do good, God will reward us our good deeds. if we do evil, God shall reward us our evil with evil.
 
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