VoidCat
Pronouns: he/him/they/them
Nope no thoughts
I didn't mean there no other demons. I meant that no demon is supported by the bible to be running hell.
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Who's managing hell?
- Thread starter Vee
- Start date
I didn't mean there no other demons. I meant that no demon is supported by the bible to be running hell.
Plus, ' afterlife ' is Not a Bible teaching but resurrection is - Acts of the Apostles 24:15.
Afterlife suggests that the dead person is more alive after death than before death.
Biblically speaking (Bible speak) the dead know nothing but sleep.
Sleep til Resurrection Day (Jesus' coming Millennium-Long Day of governing over Earth for a thousand years )
No pain, No bliss but R.I.P. (Rest In Peace) for the unconscious dead.
Just as both Jesus and the OT both teach us - Psalms 115:17; Isaiah 38:18; Ecclesiastes 9:5; John 11:11-14
When I was a kid I was told Satan would one day be cast into hell, and so would sinners. All would be suffering there, and the reason Satan wanted more people to go was that because he was going he just wanted to make other people miserable, too. It wasn't like he would be in charge. That was probably a niche point of view. I have heard other people have different points of view. Like if you listen to the Isaac Air Freight tapes it sounds like the devil and his angels are already in hell coordinating attacks on humans, and they have funny skits about that. Also if you read C.S. Lewis The Screwtape Letters there is a slightly different take. That's also funny.
InChrist
Free4ever
I’m not sure the question of who manages hell is applicable. I don’t think those who reject God, the Source of life and all that is good and meaningful, those who end up either in Sheol/ hades after death or in the lake of fire after the final judgement will have freedom or independence of any sort or need of management. It will be a place of confinement or more explicitly a state of total separation from God; apart from His order.
“They will he excluded from the presence of God and the glory of his power, and that is what Hell is. You see, it is the presence of God which makes life worth living, All the qualities in life that are worthwhile come from God. He is the Giver of every good and perfect gift - love, friendship, creativity, art, music, companionship, comfort, laughter, humor, joy - all these come from God. And when God is absent, they cease to be. We have never experienced that in this life - no one has - not even men and women who do not know God. Because God is still present, and he freely imparts himself - even to those who despise him. Every bit of joy and laughter we enjoy is ours because God loves us and freely gives himself to us -- even if we rebuff him.
But there will come a time in life - if a person refuses to acknowledge the presence and the power of God, and wants to live without God - when God will give him what he wants. And he goes out into eternity without God without his presence, and away from the glory of his power. There is no light there, no joy, nothing worthwhile. But the people there have precisely what they demanded. If they insist on their own way, God will let them have it, and thus they experience exclusion from the power and the presence of God. Rightly understood, then, Hell, in some strange way, is a provision of the love of God. If men do not want God, he will not compel them to have him; he will let them go. We can experience some measure of that now. We can experience "hell on earth" if we choose to do so. But never completely. That only comes at death, and then that separation is irrevocable, eternal.”
Dead Men Don't Sin
Ultimately, it must be that God Himself somehow, with much grief, maintains the eternal separation ( for those who refuse His Presence ).
“According to Ray Stedman, a little reflection on the nature of God, for God is love, makes it clear that maintaining hell must be a terrible torment and pain to a God who is self-giving love. He is the Holy One who "takes no pleasure in the death of the wicked," and who "is not willing that any should perish." God must be willing, therefore, to pay the price of His own eternal pain, suffering, and hell so that the few who are righteous, (by faith), might enjoy eternal bliss. Such is another aspect of the mystery of the suffering of Christ on the cross. Most of us are accustomed to thinking that we suffer more than God, and that He surely cannot fully identify with our minor pains and afflictions.
But a loving God who created us for good things surely suffers infinitely more than any human parent when a beloved child refuses the good and chooses the path leading to destruction. Surely it must be grievously painful for a God who is love to be denied the opportunity to give of Himself to the objects of His love. No man can suffer more than Christ has already suffered, nor can mortal man contemplate what is meant by the "longsuffering" of our God (who is outside of time) which will continue, we are assured, at least until the world is changed. "God's kindness is meant to lead us to repentance," Paul writes in Romans, Chapter 2. How great is that kindness!”
“Our God is a Consuming Fire
The letter to the Hebrews says,
"Therefore let us be grateful for receiving a kingdom that cannot be shaken, and thus let us offer to God acceptable worship with reverence and awe, for our God is a consuming fire." (Hebrews 12:28, 29)
The same fires which heal, purify and warm the righteous are the consuming, everlasting burnings of Gehenna, (named after GeHinnom, the valley of Hinnom, a garbage dump outside Jerusalem)---where beings who refused to become the human persons they were designed to be must finally endure the "backside" of love, which is hell. They are discarded because they have not been willing to become (by their own life-long choices) what their Designer intended them to be. C.S. Lewis wrote,
"God is going to invade this earth in force. But what's the good of saying you're on his side then, when you see the whole natural universe melting away like a dream and something else, something it never entered your head to conceive comes crashing in. Something so beautiful to us and so terrible to others that none of us will have any choice left. This time it will be God without disguise; something so overwhelming that it will strike either irresistible love, or irresistible horror into every creature. It will be too late then to choose your side. There is no use saying you choose to lie down, when it's become impossible to stand up. That will not be the time for choosing; it will be the time when we discover which side we really have chosen, whether we realize it or not. Now, today, in this moment, is our chance to choose the right side. God is holding back to give us that chance. It will not last forever; we must take it or leave it."
Jesus' Death: Six Hours of Eternity on the Cross
dybmh
דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש
firedragon
Veteran Member
joelr
Well-Known Member
Very little of this is in canon.He was just an agent of God in the OT.
Influenced by the Persian devil he became an enemy of God and mankind in the NT.
Hell is a translation of Hades used 9 times, Gehenna is used 12 and Tartarus is used 1. Only the word Tartarus is a Greek word for underworld. The other words don't mean hell.
So it's questionable what's being said in the NT. The rest of the Satan lore comes from the Middle Ages.
- "Sheol" in the Hebrew Bible, and "Hades" in the New Testament. Many modern versions, such as the New International Version, translate Sheol as "grave" and simply transliterate "Hades". It is generally agreed that both sheol and hades do not typically refer to the place of eternal punishment, but to the grave, the temporary abode of the dead, the underworld.[3]
- "Gehenna" in the New Testament, where it is described as a place where both soul and body could be destroyed (Matthew 10:28) in "unquenchable fire" (Mark 9:43). The word is translated as either "Hell" or "Hell fire" in many English versions.[4] Gehenna was a physical location outside the city walls where they burned garbage and where lepers and outcasts were sent, hence the weeping and gnashing of teeth.
- The Greek verb ταρταρῶ (tartarō, derived from Tartarus), which occurs once in the New Testament (in 2 Peter 2:4), is almost always translated by a phrase such as "thrown down to hell". A few translations render it as "Tartarus"; of this term, the Holman Christian Standard Bible states: "Tartarus is a Greek name for a subterranean place of divine punishment lower than Hades."[2 Peter 2:4]
- Hell in Christianity - Wikipedia
- Satan - Wikipedia
I think this depends also on, what is meant with hell. In Bible there is Hades that is called hell and Gehenna that is also called hell. By what the Bible tells, in the end Hades will be thrown to the fire lake, second death, Gehenna. And it is the place where soul and body are destroyed.
...Death and Hades gave up the dead who were in them. They were judged, each one according to his works. Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. If anyone was not found written in the book of life, he was cast into the lake of fire.
Revelation 20:12-15
And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
Matt. 10:28
So, if we are speaking of Hades, I think it could be called like a prison for unrighteous, where they wait final judgement. I believe it is not managed by Satan and his minions. And the fire lake, I think it is the place where Satan and his followers will be utterly destroyed permanently. I don't think it is a place managed by Satan and his folk. I think the fire lake is controlled by God.
wellwisher
Well-Known Member
There is another modern explanation for heaven and hell, that is connected to how the brain creates memory. When the animal brain writes to cerebral memory, an emotional tag, from the core region of the brain; limbic system, is added to the sensory content. Our memory has both sensory content and an emotional tag. This schema is why our strongest memories also have the strongest feelings; graduation, trauma, marriage, birth of a child, etc.
This schema is useful to natural instinct and animal consciousness. If an animal comes upon something that triggers memory, they can act upon the attached feeling, without having to think. If they see a new possible food item, that triggers memory and they sense a good parallel feeling, they will eat and add this to their memories of food.
Animals are morally neutral. Humans are different in that through the symbolism of Adam and Eve eating from the tree of knowledge of good and evil, the natural moral neutrality of the animal brain was polarized causing an aberration in how the natural animal brain creates memory.
Knowledge of good and evil is connected to law, with law telling us what to avoid and what to accept, with these social choices reinforced by the stick and the carrot. The problem with law is because good and evil and reward and punishment have opposite emotional tags, law type memories end up with two conflicting emotional tags for each law. Law is like a coin with two sides.
The two conflicting feelings created repression and an inability to act with natural instinct. As an example, say you were in a love and hate relationship, where you both love and hate the other person. Because of these conflicting feelings; and the connected memories, one cannot fully approach the other person in full love or fully run away from them in hate. Instead, you will orbit somewhere in the middle lingering between love and hate.
Law created an inhibition in terms of acting on instinct like an animal. The animal can feel both love and hate, but only one at a time, allowing the potential to lower with a definitive action. Humans ended with lingering potential that was in conflict with their natural instinct. This lingering potential was useful for developing will power and choice, but had unexpected consequences. When God said the moment you eat from that tree; learn law, you shall surely die. What died was the determinism of natural instinct. Instead, subjectivity will appear in the tension of opposites, along with bad choices.
If you look at the two concepts of heaven and hell, one can see the dividing line in terms of the emotional tags for the memories in each category. Heaven like memories are about warm and fuzzy emotional tagging of memory; love, joy, warmth, happy, etc. Hell has all the strong emotions connected to fear, hate, uncontrolled passions, etc. Law and our choices populate our heaven and hell or memory categories down the divide line of the conflicting emotional tags.
What the brain did to lower the tension of these conflicting feelings due to law was to divide the memory into good and evil storage areas; heaven and hell, and repress the dark side, so the ego could become conscious as being righteous by the law; move on. However, since the conflicting feelings are still attached by the nature of law; two sided coin, the dark side of the coin, continues to exist but is less conscious and thereby can become compulsive to create balance; do evil in the name of good, the ends justices the means, prohibition creates temptation, etc, These are all connected to the nature of the conflicting feelings of law and our polarized memory due to law and knowledge of good and evil.
What appears to also have happened is a subroutine formed in the human brain due to thousands of years of this unnatural neural conditioning; Satan Subroutine. The goal of the subroutine was to lower the potential. The human brain is a unique natural matrix that allows consciousness to appear. We all have a brain and consciousness, with the subroutine able to gain a type of consciousness on its own within this matrix. Hitler was under the spell of the subroutine from the dark side; Demons and Angels.
Satan was condoned in heaven up to Revelations. This seems to imply that the Satan subroutine, while in heaven, was using law to help to differentiate good and evil; useful purpose that was evolutionary. Helps humans find the natural good for an update that would occur. But after Satan is thrown from heaven; Revelations, the subroutine was not longer connected to the good side of law; not connected to heaven, but more like the concept of the Devil and hell. It become like a living center of the dark side of law memory. Law becomes increasingly subjective or based on opinion. Dark appears good and good appears to be from the dark side. The Saints becomes public enemy number one and evil prospers.
This schema is useful to natural instinct and animal consciousness. If an animal comes upon something that triggers memory, they can act upon the attached feeling, without having to think. If they see a new possible food item, that triggers memory and they sense a good parallel feeling, they will eat and add this to their memories of food.
Animals are morally neutral. Humans are different in that through the symbolism of Adam and Eve eating from the tree of knowledge of good and evil, the natural moral neutrality of the animal brain was polarized causing an aberration in how the natural animal brain creates memory.
Knowledge of good and evil is connected to law, with law telling us what to avoid and what to accept, with these social choices reinforced by the stick and the carrot. The problem with law is because good and evil and reward and punishment have opposite emotional tags, law type memories end up with two conflicting emotional tags for each law. Law is like a coin with two sides.
The two conflicting feelings created repression and an inability to act with natural instinct. As an example, say you were in a love and hate relationship, where you both love and hate the other person. Because of these conflicting feelings; and the connected memories, one cannot fully approach the other person in full love or fully run away from them in hate. Instead, you will orbit somewhere in the middle lingering between love and hate.
Law created an inhibition in terms of acting on instinct like an animal. The animal can feel both love and hate, but only one at a time, allowing the potential to lower with a definitive action. Humans ended with lingering potential that was in conflict with their natural instinct. This lingering potential was useful for developing will power and choice, but had unexpected consequences. When God said the moment you eat from that tree; learn law, you shall surely die. What died was the determinism of natural instinct. Instead, subjectivity will appear in the tension of opposites, along with bad choices.
If you look at the two concepts of heaven and hell, one can see the dividing line in terms of the emotional tags for the memories in each category. Heaven like memories are about warm and fuzzy emotional tagging of memory; love, joy, warmth, happy, etc. Hell has all the strong emotions connected to fear, hate, uncontrolled passions, etc. Law and our choices populate our heaven and hell or memory categories down the divide line of the conflicting emotional tags.
What the brain did to lower the tension of these conflicting feelings due to law was to divide the memory into good and evil storage areas; heaven and hell, and repress the dark side, so the ego could become conscious as being righteous by the law; move on. However, since the conflicting feelings are still attached by the nature of law; two sided coin, the dark side of the coin, continues to exist but is less conscious and thereby can become compulsive to create balance; do evil in the name of good, the ends justices the means, prohibition creates temptation, etc, These are all connected to the nature of the conflicting feelings of law and our polarized memory due to law and knowledge of good and evil.
What appears to also have happened is a subroutine formed in the human brain due to thousands of years of this unnatural neural conditioning; Satan Subroutine. The goal of the subroutine was to lower the potential. The human brain is a unique natural matrix that allows consciousness to appear. We all have a brain and consciousness, with the subroutine able to gain a type of consciousness on its own within this matrix. Hitler was under the spell of the subroutine from the dark side; Demons and Angels.
Satan was condoned in heaven up to Revelations. This seems to imply that the Satan subroutine, while in heaven, was using law to help to differentiate good and evil; useful purpose that was evolutionary. Helps humans find the natural good for an update that would occur. But after Satan is thrown from heaven; Revelations, the subroutine was not longer connected to the good side of law; not connected to heaven, but more like the concept of the Devil and hell. It become like a living center of the dark side of law memory. Law becomes increasingly subjective or based on opinion. Dark appears good and good appears to be from the dark side. The Saints becomes public enemy number one and evil prospers.
TagliatelliMonster
Veteran Member
Wow. Documentaries have come a long way...
