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Featured Who wrote "Psalms"?

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by firedragon, Aug 9, 2020.

  1. firedragon

    firedragon Well-Known Member

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    There are those of us who believe the book of Psalms in the Tanakh was definitely written by David, the father of Solomon, the Slayer of Goliath. Yet many have questioned the authorship of it. Let us just look at one point in this discourse and see if there are anything further to add in order to prove or disprove the authorship of Psalms is indeed David, the father of Solomon.

    The questions on one point - The exile and the lamentation.

    When did King David live according to the Bible? 1,000 BC? Did he write about being in exile? Did he narrate about being in exile? Why would the psalms then lament about being in exile?

    When were they exiled to Babylon? 5th century BC? In that case did David narrate or write the Psalms half a millennium after he lived?

    The biblical story about David doesn't have anything to do with an exile to Babylon. And it is not a prediction but a lamentations of a man or a poet who was writing about a people in exile in the Iraqi peninsula. A lamentation about being conquered, exiled to a land far away, their bitterness and anger towards the edomites who sided with the Babylonian conquerers. That was not written or narrated by David. It was written half a millennium later by a scribe. By the sound of the lament some argue that it was written after the people were allowed to return to their home Judah which would have been after 538 BC with the Persian conquest of Babylon because the Psalms note that people were persecuted and made to hang their musical instruments which may mean they were not allowed to enjoy and be poetic so they had to wait for freedom.

    Nevertheless, that only shows it may have been written somewhere around 587 BC to after 538 BC. So was it written after Jeremiah which mentions the deportation of people to Babylon? Which one?

    It is definitely interesting to here some ideas and objective refutations or promotions of this idea that Psalms was never written by David the father of Solomon (I keep calling him specifically "the father of Solomon" in this post because some argue there were two davids so mind me please, I just wish to be holistic). What say you oh learned ones? :)
     
  2. Eyes to See

    Eyes to See Active Member

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    Lamentations is a different book of the Bible. It was written by Jeremiah.

    Psalms was a compilation of inspired Psalms or songs by various servants of Jehovah over a long period of time. It is broken up into 5 collections. Included in writing the Psalms were David, the sons of Korah, Aseph, Moses, Solomon, and Ethan. They span over a period of 1,000 years from Moses to after the return of the exile.
     
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  3. firedragon

    firedragon Well-Known Member

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    I didnt quote the book of lamentations mate. Its all about the Psalms.
     
  4. Eyes to See

    Eyes to See Active Member

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    There are two Psalms that refer to the exile in Babylon and the return. Psalms 126, and 137.

    There are 150 Psalms altogether. Again, it is a collection of Psalms over a 1,000 year period that Jehovah inspired various faithful servants to write down. Many Psalms prophecy details about the Messiah.
     
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  5. firedragon

    firedragon Well-Known Member

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    Okay. So you dont adhere to the belief that Psalms was written by David! Am I understanding you?
     
  6. Eyes to See

    Eyes to See Active Member

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    I will quote myself from above: "It is broken up into 5 collections. Included in writing the Psalms were David, the sons of Korah, Aseph, Moses, Solomon, and Ethan."

    If you flip through the Psalms you can look at the superscriptions and many of them will tell you who wrote them. For example the superscription to Psalm 88:

    "A song. A melody of the sons of Korʹah. To the director; in the style of Maʹha·lath, to be sung alternately. Masʹkil of Heʹman the Ezʹra·hite."

    This Psalm was written by Heman, a son of Korah. Flip through the Psalms you will see in the superscription, that is above the start of the Psalm, or chapter, the author of the Psalm. There are 40 Psalms that have no attributed authors. That is their authors are unknown.

    ETA:

    73 of the 150 Psalms are attributed to David.
     
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  7. firedragon

    firedragon Well-Known Member

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    Okay. So 73 first psalms are "Written by David" but the rest by others. Am I understanding you?
     
  8. Deeje

    Deeje Avid Bible Student
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  9. Rival

    Rival Noahide
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    Heman was one of Korach's descendants and not his son, just as a side note here.
     
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  10. firedragon

    firedragon Well-Known Member

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    Of course.

    Yet, do you find that mention of son of Korah makes it a different author?
     
  11. firedragon

    firedragon Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for that. This is a very interesting perspective. It takes a more theological criticism approach rather than a textual one and it makes a divide in source based on the citing of a name, not based on history or philology. Interesting.
     
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  12. rosends

    rosends Well-Known Member

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  13. firedragon

    firedragon Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for a lot of information. Is there anyone who could address the exact point made in the OP holistically?
     
  14. Jayhawker Soule

    Jayhawker Soule <yawn> ignore </yawn>
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    You wrote:
    You then proceed to chat about exilic and post exilic psalms. Could you link to an example of people claiming that such psalms are authored by King David?
     
  15. firedragon

    firedragon Well-Known Member

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    How could one "link" to people? If you mean some internet link to some page its not done mate. Wont happen unless its some necessity for a shallow exploration of some persons opinion.

    If you dont believe that there are people who believe that David wrote Psalms, then its your prerogative. This is the first time I am hearing someone speak as if no one in the world believes David wrote Psalms.

    If you wish to hear some scholars say "People believed psalms was written by David", read the Jewish study bible and the introduction to psalms by professor Adele Berlin.

    Though Christian scholarship of the modern era does not attribute all of Psalms to David, the laymen church goer does. And it is evident in this forum itself, thus the springing of this thread. Even some Muslims believe this book they have never read is written by David because it is what they hear from others. Some Bahai's also believe that David wrote the psalms which was a discussion recently in this same forum. So if you believe people dont think David wrote the psalms all over the world, you are absolutely wrong. And to ask for a "link"??

    You mentioned the exilic divide of the psalms. Do you have any consensus on which is which? When Dr. Dahood did his philological work on attributing most psalms to the preexilic era dating some psalms like 2, 16, 18 etc to the time of David, many scholars criticised the work as predeterminism of literary philology to an era based on nothing. There is absolutely no consensus on which is post exilic. In fact some scholars like Friedman places a exilic poetry as post exilic simply based on the author. Its one author who wrote two psalms and it is impossible that the same author wrote in two very different eras, so the obvious conclusion is he wrote in post exilic era since he cannot time travel. Even theologians who did research on the psalms and believed in its davidic authorship believed the superscriptions are not part of the psalms but latter additions or interpolations. Thus the traditional idea of criticism based on this is flawed. Even in the church until probably the 20th century form criticism by scholars like Herman Gunkel were believing wholeheartedly that Psalms was of one author. See mate, even the one we respect as the pioneer in the critical scholarship of Psalms, Rupert Lowth believed in the Davidic authorship of the Psalms. If you wish to read up further please read Tremper and Enns.

    Mate. Address the post if you can rather than trying to discredit it as a whole by taking a hair and blaring it out thinking its a big hole. I just asked a simple question.

    Peace.
     
  16. Jayhawker Soule

    Jayhawker Soule <yawn> ignore </yawn>
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    • To slide from "the book of Psalms in the Tanakh was definitely written by David" to "David wrote Psalms" is disingenuous.
    • Also interesting is your use of tense: in your second sentence above you quote "People believed [past tense] ..." while the OP argues "There are those of us who believe [present tense] ..."
    • As for The Jewish Study Bible, I love Berlin and own the book. So too the excellent JPS Esther Commentary. Do you think she was addressing current claims or past positions? (A quote or page reference might help.)
    • Oh, I see, you're polemicizing against the "laymen church goer." Some? Many? Most? Based on what evidence?
     
    #16 Jayhawker Soule, Aug 10, 2020
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2020
  17. Jayhawker Soule

    Jayhawker Soule <yawn> ignore </yawn>
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    I doubt that there is one. (I find the argument for Psalm 34 compelling and fun. :))
     
  18. firedragon

    firedragon Well-Known Member

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    Nope. Again, you are doing that pathetic game of building a straw man argument just to argue against since you are googling about the subject but you are in need of some adrenalin. Find a hobby.
     
  19. firedragon

    firedragon Well-Known Member

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    Page 1240. Read up. Also read all the other scholars I have given mate. Address the whole post.

    So in your valiant attempt for a straw man, you wish to make it "history" vs "current" catching a fly pretending its a dragon?

    One of the most pathetic attempts I have come across.
     
  20. firedragon

    firedragon Well-Known Member

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    Ill tell you what. Let me play this pathetic game for once. You wanted a "link" which is a pathetic need, an internet link, not any kind of study.

    So here's a link of some one who thought so and asks a question. Read. Of course now catch a pet collar or another semantic for another straw man argument. Please go ahead. But here it is.

    Who Wrote the Book of Psalms?
     
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