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Who/what is Satan

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by jewscout, Apr 25, 2005.

  1. lomi

    lomi New Member

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    but the preachers told me that the demons were making me think this way! Why did they lie to me, if they didn't know themselves then who was it that had enough credibility to persuade them of this? mama mia! :bonk:
     
  2. Era

    Era Member

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    lomi , every religion is based on manipulation and christianity does this the most of all . Fear is what justifies the faith . If you tell people that there is no monster to get them , they will stop needing the protection of God . In fact is not all about God as it is about churches who builded their status on people`s fear .
     
  3. lomi

    lomi New Member

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    if the churches had a plan to make everyone believe this then aren't the churches corrupted?? oh NO maama miiiiaaa... people are being discredited for their discoveres about the bible... can't that be compared to what they did to make people afraid? The bible says all sins are equal. what will we do? :bonk:
     
  4. Snowbear

    Snowbear Nita Okhata

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    I don't think Satan is here to provide a scapegoat. I think Satan does his best to talk us into opposing or disobeying God. It's still our choice to do what's right or do what's not right in the eyes of God.
    People fight God (spiritually speaking of course), so why can't Satan?
     
  5. Era

    Era Member

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    No one can prove that the Bible had been written by the Holy Gost . All this had been written by man . Couse if you do believe that the Bible came from God , then God is nothing but a system of contradictions . Now in Bible the sins are not equal , not even in satanism the sins are not equal . But people must realise that those sins are nothing but rules , it`s up to us if we do fallow those rules or not . The only judger that there is has a human mind and brain !
     
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  6. michel

    michel Administrator Emeritus
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    O.K Era, let's say you are right; the only judger that there is has a human mind or brain - is it your mind and brain ? or do you mean that there is, somewhere a human who is going to judge us ?:)
     
  7. Era

    Era Member

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    What I meant by human mind / brain and olso heart , it was that the only ruler , judger , God , name it .... is the man . We , all of us can decide if we believe or not . Some do believe in God , they know their evindences in their lifes , I don`t believe in God , I know from my life , others don`t have the same idea of god ( polytheism) , everything changes from man to man . We must understand the power that we have , not some god out there .
     
  8. jewscout

    jewscout Religious Zionist

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    people may disobey G-d or not even believe in Him, but don't you think that this is all part of a greater plan? I mean if G-d can't use our actions to His ends then what sort of G-d is He? We may think we can "fight" G-d but if He exists on a level far superior to or own can we truly fight Him? that's like saying a single black ant can fight Mike Tyson in a boxing match.
    The thing is, if Satan can oppose G-d then how can G-d's will be done? Do things happen w/o His say so or atleast His approval?
     
  9. may

    may Well-Known Member

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    remember the time in eden when satan challenged Gods rulership
    All of Jehovah’s works are perfect; he is not the author of unrighteousness; so he did not create anyone wicked. (Deut. 32:4; Ps. 5:4) The one who became Satan was originally a perfect spirit son of God. When saying that the Devil "did not stand fast in the truth," Jesus indicated that at one time that one was "in the truth." (John 8:44) But, as is true of all of God’s intelligent creatures, this spirit son was endowed with free will. He abused his freedom of choice, allowed feelings of self-importance to develop in his heart, began to crave worship that belonged only to God, and so enticed Adam and Eve to listen to him rather than obey God. Thus by his course of action he made himself Satan, which means "adversary."—Jas. 1:14, 15; but Gods purpose has not changed because of this. he is more powerful than satanand will acomplish his original purpose and the bible tells us how he will do this throughjesus christ .....also the book of daniel is also for our day , but it is a book of prophecy and has meaning for our day .infact cyrus that you mentioned applies to jesus chirst he is the greater cyrus

    Serious issues were raised by Satan: (1) The righteousness and rightfulness of Jehovah’s sovereignty. Was Jehovah withholding from mankind freedom that would contribute to their happiness? Were mankind’s ability to govern their affairs successfully and their continued life truly dependent on their obedience to God? Had Jehovah been dishonest in giving a law that stated that disobedience would lead to their death? (Gen. 2:16, 17; 3:3-5) So, did Jehovah really have the right to rule? (2) The integrity of intelligent creatures toward Jehovah. By the deflection of Adam and Eve the question was raised: Did Jehovah’s servants really obey him out of love or might all of them abandon God and follow the lead being given by Satan? This latter issue was further developed by Satan in the days of Job. (Gen. 3:6; Job 1:8-11; 2:3-5; see also Luke 22:31.) These issues could not be settled by merely executing the rebels.​

    Not that God needed to prove anything to himself. But so that these issues would never again disrupt the peace and well-being of the universe, Jehovah has allowed ample time for them to be settled beyond all doubt. That Adam and Eve died following disobedience to God became evident in due time. (Gen. 5:5) But more was at issue. So, God has permitted both Satan and humans to try every form of government of their own making. None have brought lasting happiness. God has let mankind go to the limit in pursuing ways of life that ignore His righteous standards. The fruitage speaks for itself. As the Bible truthfully says: "It does not belong to man who is walking even to direct his step." (Jer. 10:23) At the same time God has given his servants opportunity to prove their loyalty to him by their acts of loving obedience, and this in the face of enticements and persecution instigated by Satan. Jehovah exhorts his servants, saying: "Be wise, my son, and make my heart rejoice, that I may make a reply to him (satan)that is taunting me." (Prov. 27:11) Those proving faithful reap great benefits now and have the prospect of eternal life in perfection.

     
  10. jewscout

    jewscout Religious Zionist

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    so Satan is G-d's adversary? is that what you are saying?
     
  11. may

    may Well-Known Member

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    no ,thats what the bible is telling us
    Jesus Christ referred to him as being "the ruler of the world," the one whom mankind in general obeys by heeding his urgings to ignore God’s requirements. (John 14:30; Eph. 2:2) The Bible also calls him "the god of this system of things," who is honored by the religious practices of people who adhere to this system of things.—2 Cor. 4:4; 1 Cor. 10:20.

     
  12. jewscout

    jewscout Religious Zionist

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    so people worship him?
     
  13. jewscout

    jewscout Religious Zionist

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    so does G-d no longer rule over the world?
    i always thought G-d was an omnipotent being:rolleyes: I suppose His power has limits then?
     
  14. Ori

    Ori Angel slayer

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    Maybe Satans hold it can have over people is the only thing it has left and can only be stopped willingly by itself.
     
  15. may

    may Well-Known Member

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    1 John 5:19: "The whole world is lying in the power of the wicked one." (Satan has fostered a spirit that dominates the thinking and activities of mankind it is a spirit of selfishness and pride that is so pervasive that it is like the air that humans breathe. We need to exercise great care not to submit to Satan’s power by letting that spirit mold our lives.) selfishness and pride are what coursed all the problems in the first place

     
  16. jewscout

    jewscout Religious Zionist

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    ok may so we've established that satan is
    A) YHVH's adversary
    and that
    B) Satan appears to have enough power to control this world and "this system of things"

    and i'd like to point out this in particular

    so where does YHVH's power end and satan's begin?
     
  17. Dayv

    Dayv Member

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    First off, I'd like to say I was never bashing anyones faith, but merely trying to get an opinion out of you two (jewscout and may) instead of this constant flow of bible verse. I'd also like to add that this argument of yours may well go on forever, first off b/c you are each using completely different bibles, and second b/c, regardless of which bible you use, as Era mentioned, it's full of self contradictions and obscurities. Like I said before, give us an opinion, not a verse. If you're going to use you're bible, than at least analyze what it's saying and say something in your own words. This constant vomit of verse is driving me nuts!
     
  18. linwood

    linwood Well-Known Member

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    so where does YHVH's power end and satan's begin?


    Excellent question!
    I`d like to add to it and ask..

    Why does YHVH allow the division of power wherever it may be?
     
  19. may

    may Well-Known Member

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    Jehovah is always more powerful than satan ,but Jehovah is allowing satan to rule the world , but not for much longer, the issue here is universal sovreignty.jehovah could have squased satan and adam and eve but it has got to be proved beyond any dought that mankind cannot rule himself independent of God .we were not created to rule ourselves jehovah knows that.
    I well know, O Jehovah, that to earthling man his way does not belong. It does not belong to man who is walking even to direct his step(jeremiah 10;23)

    But, in fact, for this cause I have kept you in existence, for the sake of showing you my power and in order to have my name declared in all the earth(exodus 9;16)

    The vindication of Jehovah God’s sovereignty by means of the heavenly Kingdom is the Bible’s theme. Jesus made this his foremost teaching. He said: "This good news of the kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations; and then the end will come."—Matthew 24:14the end is not the end of the world but the end of manruling himself under satanic influence.

    "Expressions inspired by demons . . . go forth to the kings of the entire inhabited earth, to gather them together to the war of the great day of God the Almighty."—Rev. 16:14there is no mistake about it satan has a real influence but not for long because God has it all under control he will show his power in the day of Jehovah

     
  20. EnhancedSpirit

    EnhancedSpirit High Priestess

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    Isaiah 45:7 reads, "I form the light, and I create darkness: I make peace and create evil: I the Lord do all these things." And Isaiah 54:16," Behold I have created the smith that bloweth the coals in the fire, and that bringeth forth an instrument for his work; I have created the waster to destroy." Satan is evil and God was the one who created him.

    Our problem is that we look at evil and judge it to be bad. This is what we are to avoid doing. Satan was created to forge our spirit. When something bad happens, it is for a reason. That which does not kill us only makes us stronger. So how can it be wrong?
     
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