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Who was Ravidass?

Discussion in 'Dharmic Religions DIR' started by ronki23, Oct 27, 2021.

  1. ronki23

    ronki23 Well-Known Member

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    What is the difference between believing Ravidass was a Guru as opposed to being a Bhagat?
     
  2. ameyAtmA

    ameyAtmA ~ ~
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    Namaste

    What kind of a question is this?

    It looks like the word "belief" and "believing" is a favorite on RF.

    Where is there any room for belief if there is history telling you that

    Saint Ravidas was

    1. A VaishNav, a devotee of VishNu => a "bhagat"
    2. Had composed many nice bhajans to the Lord
    3. Was an inspiration and Guru of Meerabai. who was a devotee of Shri KRshNa (pUrNAvatAr of VishNu)
    4. Had obvious followers who built him a samadhi and go there to pay respects
    5. Was adopted by the Sikhs as a Guru, they wanted to follow in his footsteps.

    Sikhism worships the same omniscient omnipresent VishNu who is the same omniscient omnipresent Shiva.

    So I just do not understand where "believing" comes into picture for a historical person Saint Ravidas a.k.a. Raidas.
     
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  3. Aupmanyav

    Aupmanyav Be your own guru

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  4. ronki23

    ronki23 Well-Known Member

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    If Ravidass was a Hindu / not Sikh then why do some people call Ravidassi 'Sikhs' and the Temples a 'Gurdwara' ?

    Please read Guru Granth Sahib regarding deities

    “He created Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva, who act according to His Will” (Guru Granth Sahib, 948).

    “The performance of countless millions of other devotions is not even equal to one devotion to the Name of God” (Guru Granth Sahib, 1163). “Those who serve Shiva and Brahma cannot find the limits of God” (Guru Granth Sahib, 516).

    'The ones who serve any other instead of God cannot attain salvation. Salvation is granted only by God. “Everyone must serve the One Lord, who created Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva. O Nanak, the One True Lord is permanent and stable. He does not die, and He is not born” '(Guru Granth Sahib, 1130).

    "By the order of God, Brahma obtained a body. By the order of God, Shiva was born. By the order of God, Vishnu was born. Everything is created by God. God, who made Shiva a yogi. God, who gave Brahma the kingdom of Vedas. God, who has shaped the entire universe. Is the one we salute. They consider that Shiva is God. They are unaware of the Supreme Primal Lord." (Benti Chaupee Sahib).
     
  5. ameyAtmA

    ameyAtmA ~ ~
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    Can't he be both Hindu and Sikh?

    You have to cross the saguN versus nirguN (either-or) bridge to understand the mystic devotional experience of saguNa-nirguNa.

    Guru NAnak, Ravidas all belong to Sanatan Dharma. Their reformative text is to enable people to focus on the NirguNa in different ways. Their followings, i.e. "pantha" were named as well-defined religions. Their sAdhanA, disipline and rules formulated into the Sikh, Ravidasi and other movements.

    While those texts say "He" created BramhA VishNu Mahesh, our understanding is that "HE"

    became/
    becomes/
    IS/
    plays the roles of


    BramhA VishNu Mahesh. (Our texts also say VishNu created BramhA , then it goes in circles - that is how time is - circular)

    The Gurus write or teach in ways tailored to a) their personal experience b) the understanding of the group present at their time.

    From the Wiki page linked in the post above
    Discussion (charchA) between Ravidas and Kabir
    This shows it is hard to worship the nirguN nirAkAr and they end up making their Guru their Deity.


    Hindu mystic poet , devotee of Shri KRshNa , Meerabai asked Ravidas to be her Guru , and he asked her to continue writing poetry to KRshNa.
    To me they are all one dharma. Just followings of various Gurus who each had their own experience of Bramh'

    SanAtan Dharma is the holistic Mother of all these religions, movements, teachings, philosophies, thoughts...
     
    #5 ameyAtmA, Oct 28, 2021
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2021
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  6. ameyAtmA

    ameyAtmA ~ ~
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    It is like asking "Do you worship the Bramh in Bhagvad Geeta Chapter 13 or 15? 12 or 2? 11 or 18? 3 or 5? 2 or 6?"
     
  7. Aupmanyav

    Aupmanyav Be your own guru

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    At one time and for many, even today, there is no difference between Sikhism and Hinduism. Many Hindu families have Sikh sons, my grocer is one such. Sindhis to not have the tradition to raise sons as Sikhs but many are ardent followers of Guru Nanak. Those Hindus who have gurus, also have gurudwaras, which only means the 'residence of the Guru'. What are Punjabi 'deras', people have their gurus there, like the Radhasoamis? Radhasoamis have Hindu and Sikh followers.
     
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