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Who was, and is the beast right now?

Truthseeker

Non-debating member when I can help myself
It's My Birthday!
And what about verses Revelation 13:5-18)?
Let me quote from a Baha'i author. I will add some explanations of my own.

"THE END DATE OF BEASTLY POWER:
And they worshipped the dragon which gave power to the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? Who is able to make war with him? And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months . -Rev 13:4-5

A 'prophetic month' is 30 years. Therefore forty-two 'months' is 1260 years."


The year 1260 is when the Bab arose, ending the Islamic dispensation.

"The oecumene will admire the caliphate, whose power seems to rest upon an alliance with the Devil. The military prowess of the caliphate will be leopard-like, resembling that of Alexander the Great. Although the office of the caliphate will be occupied by several dynasties, the fraud initiated by the Umayyah will continue for the entire Dispensation of Muhammad, until 1260 AH.

The impression made by the caliphate upon the rest of the World was profound and sometimes baleful. Dark Age Christendom initiated a series of countermeasures in an attempt to overtake the technology and military power of Islamdom. In the shadowy recesses of the council chambers of that era, it is difficult to see what actually transpired, but the elimination of the 'human spirit' as a third part of Man has already been alluded to. Some historians see an abrupt shift away from spirituality in the West and towards a more materialistic society. Other historians discern the seeds of material progress in the 9th century that would flower in the 11th.

And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven. And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations. And all that dwell upon the
earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. -Rev 13:6-8

The Umayyah were noted for their hypocrisy, economic and social injustice, and their luxurious lives dedicated to the pleasures of the flesh. They suppressed the descendants of Muhammad and the Holy Imams, and dominated a vast array of peoples covering most of the oecumene. Their military power was supreme.



The "Lamb" represents the principle of Sacrifice that has existed since the beginning of time, necessary for the renewal of the Ages and the manifestation of a higher reality. Regardless of which CONSTELLATION appears at the Spring equinox, it is said that Spring always appears under the SIGN of Aries. Thus, symbolically, the Lamb has always been 'slain' to permit a new Age to commence.


In the Baha'i Dispensation, the names in the Book of Life are written by the Center of the Covenant, 'Abdu'l-Baha, the 'Most Great Branch' from the 'pre-existent root.' {4}"

While of course the Umayyads didn't literally rule the world, they presided over all of Islam and Islam at that time was the religion of the latest Dispensation which laid claim to the allegiance all of the peoples of the Earth.

(To be continued)
 

Truthseeker

Non-debating member when I can help myself
It's My Birthday!
A LAW OF DIVINE RETRIBUTION:
If any man have an ear, let him hear. 10 He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and faith of the saints. -Rev 13:9-10

John learns the Law of Divine Retribution that will destroy the beast. The Umayyah continued to decay in spirituality and power, eventually experiencing the same fate that they had meted out to others. Except for 'Abd Al-Rahman, the Umayyah were hunted down and executed. Even the corpses of their dead Caliphs, except for the pious Umar II, were exhumed and desecrated.

THE SECOND BEAST:
And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spoke as a dragon. And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed. -Rev 13:11-12

The second beast is the House of 'Abbas. It will come to power on the ruins (earth) of the first beast, and will have two names (horns) of power: 'The Caliph' and 'The Sultan.' {5} It, too, will utter preposterous lies and blasphemies. By comparison, the revived neo-Umayyad dynasty in Spain will seem far less aggressive and more palatable to Christendom; Western civilization will gain much from its relations with Muslim Spain.

THE IMAGE OF THE BEAST:
And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on earth in the sight of men, and deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by the sword, and did live. -Rev 13:13-14

At its apex, the 'Abbasids exercised all the power of the Umayyah, and revived the dying empire that had been mortally wounded and yet lived on in Spain. The 'Abbasid period, commemorated in the fable 'The Arabian Nights,' is noteworthy for its advanced science and technology. Very early they learned the use of gunpowder and Greek fire, employing spectacular devices in warfare such as burning globes and javelins that were propelled over long distances.

The 'image' which the 'Abbasids created was their imitation of the Umayyah. Not only did they imitate them in their outward trappings and lifestyle, their history imitated the Umayyah as well. Both came to power by deception and fraud. Both occupied the caliphate for about a century, and both kept in power through terror and intrigue. Both began their careers enjoying a vast empire, yet each ended up in control of a single domain.{6}

Curiously, both the neo-Umayyad and 'Abbasid Caliphs continued the pattern of 10 un-repeated names. From their usurpation of power in 750 until their loss of power to the Turks in 861, the 'Abbasid Caliphs bore ten names:

1. As-Saffa
2. Al-Mansur
3. Al-Mahdi
4. Al-Hadi
5. Ar-Rashid
6. Al-Amin
7. Al-Ma'mun
8. Al-Mu'tasim
9. Al-Wathiq and
10. Al-Mutawakkil.

Also, the first Turkish dynasty, the Seljuks, who seized the caliphate from the 'Abbasids in 861, might be said to have produced a line of potentates with 10 un-repeated names, although the last years of their sovereignty were confused by pretenders to the office. The mainstream Seljuk Caliphs bore the following names:



1. Malik
2. Toghrul
3. Alp
4. Barkiyaroq
5. Mahommed
6. Sinjar
7. Mahmud
8. Masud
9. Sulayman and
10. Arslan.
 

Truthseeker

Non-debating member when I can help myself
It's My Birthday!
With the fall of the Seljuks, the pattern of ten horns seems to have been broken. After the fall of the 'Abbasids and before the Turks imposed their rule on North Africa, there was a power vacuum that permitted the independent and brilliant Fatimid Caliphate to flourish from 909 until 1171. This caliphate, centered at Cairo, claimed a line of descent from the House of 'Ali through the Sixth Imam. The Fatimids fared better: they begot 14 Caliphs with 14 un-repeated names. Nor did the final Turkish dynasty, the Ottoman, exhibit the ten horn pattern. From 1230 until the destruction of the caliphate in 1924, the Ottomans begot 32 Caliphs, again with 14 un-repeated names.

And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast , that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed. -Rev 13:15

The second beast, the House of 'Abbas, was able to revive the image of the first beast, the House of Umayyah, so that it seemed to be alive again. The 'Abbasids enforced their new regime with great severity, ruthlessly murdering even those who had helped them to gain power.

THE TWO STIGMATA:
And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads: 17 And that no man might buy or sell, save that he had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name. - Rev 13:16-17

[REB: 17 and no man was allowed to buy or sell unless he bore this beast's mark, either name or number.]

The 'marks' or stigmata were two taxes imposed on non-Muslims. The 'kharaj' was a business and land tax imposed on the working ('right') hand; the 'jizya' was a poll tax imposed on the 'forehead.' Trading was forbidden by non-Muslims unless they had paid either the poll tax (assessed by the 'name' of their Faith) or the business tax (assessed by the 'number' of their business). Originally, the modest kharaj and jizya were intended as benign symbols of religious tolerance and as gentle encouragement to convert to Islam. Under the Umayyad and 'Abbasid Caliphs, the kharaj and jizya were radically transformed into sources of great personal wealth and were used as capital for imperial expansion. Many non-Muslims fled the realm of the beast to avoid paying these taxes.
(To be continued)
 

Truthseeker

Non-debating member when I can help myself
It's My Birthday!
A TEST OF INTELLECTUAL SKILL:
18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six . -Rev 13:18

[REB: 18 (This calls for skill; let anyone who has intelligence work out the number of the beast, for the number represents a man's name, and the numerical value of its letters is six hundred and sixty-six.)

The reader of the Apocalypse is challenged to work out the gematrical value of the 'name of the beast.' From verse 1, we understand that it is a title, since it rests upon "seven heads." Also, the title must be sacred, since its expropriation by the beast was an act of blasphemy. And, since the text of the Apocalypse is in Koine Greek, the answer should be in Koine.

From the various clues in this and other chapters of the Apocalypse, we guess that the solution is probably 'The Caliph.' We test this conjecture by transliterating the Arabic name into Koine to determine whether its gematrical value is, indeed, 666.

We must define certain transcriptions for the purpose of presenting the result in English letters:

ARABIC KOINE GEMATRICAL VALUE TRANSCRIPTION
Al (definite article) Omicron 70


'O Kef Kappa (soft) 20


Kalif alpha 1


alam double lambda (hard) 60


llye epsilon + iota (diphthong) 15


eife phi 500


ph

Transcribed: The Caliph = 'O Kalleiph

Gematrical value: 70 + 20 + 1 + 60 + 15 + 500 = 666

There are several other concurrences that lend credence to this solution. A few will be noted here, while some others will be noted where appropriate.

a. The date of the usurpation of the caliphate by the House of Umayyah was 661 CE. Most biblical scholars, in agreement with the Gospel of Matthew, place the Birth of Jesus sometime prior to the death of Herod the Great who died in the year 4-5 BCE. Placing the 'true' historical date of His Birth at about 5 BCE, and accounting for the missing zeroth year in BOTH the Christian and common calendars, {7} places the origin of the illegitimate caliphate at about 666 'ANNO DOMINI.'

b. The Arabic equivalent of the Anglo-Saxon name 'God' is ''Allah.' In the Arabic gematria, ''Allah' has the value 66. The number '6' is deemed to be the 'number of mediation' by numerologists. Thus '666' has as one of its meanings, 'The Mediator to 'Allah.' The illegitimate caliphate blasphemously claimed that role to be their own.

c. In itself, the number '666' suggests 'successorship,' since 600 is the decadal successor of 60, and 60 is the decadal successor of 6.

d. Attempts to transliterate the Greek number 666 into Arabic produce words meaning 'the spy' or 'the sensual.' Both appellations are descriptive of the Houses of Umayyah and 'Abbas.

Before leaving the subject, there is one more possible clue, derived from numerology, that might be apparent in the number 666. Besides being the 'number of mediation,' 6 is also called the 'number of beauty.' The Greek word for 'beauty' is 'kallos.' Thus, if one makes this connection, the first four letters are common to the words 'kallos' and 'kalleiph.'


I don't expect you to be convinced by this. Prophecy is always subject to all sorts of interpretations. Also the opinion expressed here is not an official Baha'i position, but just the opinion of one author. I just have shown you this, in the spirit of sharing what I believe.
 

2ndpillar

Well-Known Member
A 'prophetic month' is 30 years. Therefore forty-two 'months' is 1260 years."

The year 1260 is when the Bab arose, ending the Islamic dispensation.

Sorry I asked. The beast who was slain and was healed (Revelation 13:5), and had "authority to act for forty two months", is not about the "year 1260", it is about ruling for 42 months, and in the case of Julius Caesar, because he changed the calendar, 42 months consisting of 1335 days. Islam didn't exist until the 7th century.
 

Faithofchristian

Well-Known Member
The beast of Revelation 13:1 is described in Revelation 13:2, "like a leopard, bear, lion", which is the beast of Daniel 7:3 "and the four great beast were coming up from the sea, different from one another, the first was like a lion, and had wings of an eagle (Babylon)....a bear (Persia)....leopard (Macedonia/Greece).....with large iron teeth (Rome).
 

Faithofchristian

Well-Known Member
Sorry I asked. The beast who was slain and was healed (Revelation 13:5), and had "authority to act for forty two months", is not about the "year 1260", it is about ruling for 42 months, and in the case of Julius Caesar, because he changed the calendar, 42 months consisting of 1335 days. Islam didn't exist until the 7th century.

If you stay with the book of Revelation, the book of Revelation explains it's self.

As for the beast who was slain and it's deadly wound was healed in
Revelation 13:3,4. That's the One World Order Government system, That's soon to come on the earth, This is when Satan and his angels are cast out of heaven as stated in Revelation 12:7-9

And then Satan heals the deadly wound and becomes the king over the One World Order, As stated in Revelation 9:11--"And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit.

Now who is this angel of the bottomless pit, Go to Revelation 20:1-3 and here you will find Satan being cast into the bottomless pit, which makes Satan the angel of the bottomless pit.

Now back to Revelation 13:2--"And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion"

The beast which John saw, Was the One World Order Government system.

Then John saw the beast, which is the One World Order Government system, was like unto a leopard, Which means, The One World Order Government system is always changing it's ways.

And had feet like a bear, if you know anything about a bear, a bear will tear anything apart with it's feet, Meaning this One World Order Government system will tear apart anything or anyone that gets in it's way.

And had a mouth like a lion. Meaning that this One World Order Government system, will devour anyone or anything that gets in it's way, of becoming the One World Order Government system.

And the dragon Satan, gave this One World Order Government system it's power and great authority to destroy anyone or anything that gets in it's way.
Revelation 13:2.

In Revelation 13:1, Here you will find, the beast has having 7 heads and 10 horns and upon his horns 10 crowns.

Then in Revelation 17:12--"And the 10 horns which you saw, are 10 kings, which have received no kingdom as yet;
But receive power as kings one hour with the beast"

This takes us back to Revelation 13:3--"And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death and his deadly wound was healed:
And all the world wondered after the beast"

Satan healed the deadly wound, that thereby all the world marveled how one of it's heads of the One World Order Government system was healed and all the world worship the One World Order Government system.

Does this mean, that people fell to their knees, No, it means the world setup this head to be the head of all the Government's of the world. Thereby being in the form of worship to the One World Order Government system, That people are found praising the One World Order Government system.

The only problem that people will find with this One World Order Government system, is that people will be put to death, for not following it's Dictatorship Government.
That people will not have any more say about their life. What they can do or what they can not do with their life.

In other words, Atheists will not be Atheists no more, and homosexualls will not be homosexualls no more, and as for Religions there will be no more.

Your life belongs to the One World Order Government system to Dictate to you what you will do and what you will not do.
And if you do not comply, you will be put to death.
This is why it's Written in
Revelation 13:4---"Who is like unto the beast, Who is able to make war with him"

Because the One World Order Government system Controls all the Military of the World. Thereby no one is able to make war with him.
 
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2ndpillar

Well-Known Member
And then Satan heals the deadly wound and becomes the king over the One World Order, As stated in Revelation 9:11--"And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit.

The king of the abyss, is "Apollyon", and he is in the "bottomless pit" now, to be released later. Satan is ruler of the world now (John 14:30). Satan, the dragon, was not wounded, his beast, to whom he gave authority (Rev 13:4), was wounded and healed. That beast would rule for 42 months or 1335 days because of the change in the Julian calendar, which is called the "year of confusion". Your "World Government" has been ruling the world from the inauguration of Obama in 2008 until 2016, which would be 8 years, if you don't include the years of Clinton and the Bushes. Obama has not been healed, much to his disappointment.
 

Faithofchristian

Well-Known Member
The king of the abyss, is "Apollyon", and he is in the "bottomless pit" now, to be released later. Satan is ruler of the world now (John 14:30). Satan, the dragon, was not wounded, his beast, to whom he gave authority (Rev 13:4), was wounded and healed. That beast would rule for 42 months or 1335 days because of the change in the Julian calendar, which is called the "year of confusion". Your "World Government" has been ruling the world from the inauguration of Obama in 2008 until 2016, which would be 8 years, if you don't include the years of Clinton and the Bushes. Obama has not been healed, much to his disappointment.

The beast of Revelation Chapter 13 has not taken place yet, it's still future.i don't know who or where your coming up with these things.

Satan and his angels have not been cast out of heaven yet, Not until the 5th & 6th seals and the 5th & 6th Trump's are sounded, then Satan and his angels are cast out of heaven. Rev 12:7-9.

If you read Revelation 9:11 and
Revelation 20:1-3,
You will find that Satan is the only one to be cast into the bottomless pit.

The names Abaddon and Apollyon in Revelation 9:11, Are names given to Satan in the Hebrew language and in the Greek language. Rev 9:11

If you read Rev 9:11-- And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, then go to Rev 20:1-3,
You'll find Satan as being cast into the bottomless pit, Satan is the only one ever to be cast into the bottomless pit.

Therefore Apollyon is Satan, Apollyon is just another name given to Satan. In the Hebrew language, Rev 9:11.

If you read the first half of the Verse of
Rev 9:11, the angel of the bottomless pit, this being Satan,
Rev 20:1-3, explains Satan as being cast into the bottomless pit, Therefore Satan is that angle in Rev 9:11.
 
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Brickjectivity

Turned to Stone. Now I stretch daily.
Staff member
Premium Member
The cycle is one of the land returning to Israel and debts being forgiven. As in 1967 after the 6 days war, Jerusalem was returned to Judah, and in 1917, after the defeat of the Ottomans and the Germans at Megiddo, the Balfour declaration introduced the Jewish Zionist into Judea. We are in the current Jubliee, starting in 2017, whereas the nations will be gathered to plan to "wipe" "Israel" "out" as a "nation" (Psalm 83:4), and they will be gathered to the "valley of judgment" (Joel 3:2), and they will be "crushed" all "at the same time" (Daniel 2:44), and then the nation of Israel will have the land to gather from the nations their brothers, the "house of Israel" (Ezekiel 36:24). The cycle is one of 50 years, and it is one of returning land to Israel to fulfill Scriptures, such as Hosea 5 -6, when after 2 days/2000 years, the judgment of Judah and Israel will be over.
( The comment was directed toward me. ) Debts are to be forgiven at Jubilee. No it is not about land returning to Israel.

Rather it is about the regular redistribution of land keeping the tribes from accumulating land and keeping individuals from accumulating too much. Its got zero to do with re-aquiring historical lands. The lines are lost, the tribes lost, the geneologies all lost. Debts are not forgiven every seven years, and the government of Israel is secular except in matters of marriage. No Jubilees have occurred not that it matters or is relevant to a discussion about the beast; but the year 1967 while very special for those who finally found a homeland is not about Jubilee or even related to the concept.
 

2ndpillar

Well-Known Member
( The comment was directed toward me. ) Debts are to be forgiven at Jubilee. No it is not about land returning to Israel.

Rather it is about the regular redistribution of land keeping the tribes from accumulating land and keeping individuals from accumulating too much. Its got zero to do with re-aquiring historical lands. The lines are lost, the tribes lost, the geneologies all lost. Debts are not forgiven every seven years, and the government of Israel is secular except in matters of marriage. No Jubilees have occurred not that it matters or is relevant to a discussion about the beast; but the year 1967 while very special for those who finally found a homeland is not about Jubilee or even related to the concept.

Yeah sure. And there is not going to be "an awesome day of the LORD" (Joel 2:31-32), whereas "My servant David" will be "king", and "they shall live on the land that I gave to Jacob My servant, in which your fathers lived" (Ezekiel 37:24-25). If you are going to make comments about Scripture, you might want to read actually what it says. As for the 1967 Israel war, as according to Joel 3:1, Jerusalem, and Judah were "restored" for the first time in around 2000 years. (Hosea 6:2) Judah starts keeping "My statutes" after David is made king (Ezekiel 37:24). As for the "nations"/Gentiles, "I will completely destroy all the nations where I have scattered you (Jacob)". (Jeremiah 30:11). You might want start looking for a rock to hide under (Revelation 6:16), as the anniversary of the angel of death flying over, is right around the corner.
 

2ndpillar

Well-Known Member
The beast of Revelation Chapter 13 has not taken place yet, it's still future.i don't know who or where your coming up with these things

The beast of Revelation 13:1 is described in Revelation 13:2, and it is the same beast of Daniel 7 which comes out of the sea, and is like a lion, bear and leopard, and all have been previously crushed, but their kingdoms were given an extension of time (Daniel 7:12) until they "are crushed all at the same time (Daniel 2:35). The feet of iron and clay, the Russians and Edomites (those surrounding Israel), were crushed in the 1967 and 73 wars (Daniel 2:34). All the kingdoms, including Rome, will be crushed all at the same time (Daniel 2:35 & 44) by the stone made without hands. Have you even read the bible? It seems you are a Pauline treadmill, and have yet to leave your living room couch. My suggestion would be to "come out of her", the "daughter of Babylon".
 

Faithofchristian

Well-Known Member
The beast of Revelation 13:1 is described in Revelation 13:2, and it is the same beast of Daniel 7 which comes out of the sea, and is like a lion, bear and leopard, and all have been previously crushed, but their kingdoms were given an extension of time (Daniel 7:12) until they "are crushed all at the same time (Daniel 2:35). The feet of iron and clay, the Russians and Edomites (those surrounding Israel), were crushed in the 1967 and 73 wars (Daniel 2:34). All the kingdoms, including Rome, will be crushed all at the same time (Daniel 2:35 & 44) by the stone made without hands. Have you even read the bible? It seems you are a Pauline treadmill, and have yet to leave your living room couch. My suggestion would be to "come out of her", the "daughter of Babylon".


Maybe you should let Christ Jesus know that, since Christ Jesus gave the book of Revelation. And he should know what he put in the book of Revelation

But it seems you think you know more the Christ Jesus does.

You keep running to the book of Daniel, When everything you need to know is in the book of Revelation. That's why Christ Jesus gave the book of Revelation, so that everything anyone needs to know is right in the book of Revelation.
 

2ndpillar

Well-Known Member
You keep running to the book of Daniel, When everything you need to know is in the book of Revelation. That's why Christ Jesus gave the book of Revelation, so that everything anyone needs to know is right in the book of Revelation.

Sorry, but Revelation does not revoke the book of Daniel. It sheds light on it, and on all the prophets. To nail the book of Daniel and the prophets to your cross, is like turning off the lights, and while you can feel the elephant, you still can't figure out what you are touching.
 

Faithofchristian

Well-Known Member
Sorry, but Revelation does not revoke the book of Daniel. It sheds light on it, and on all the prophets. To nail the book of Daniel and the prophets to your cross, is like turning off the lights, and while you can feel the elephant, you still can't figure out what you are touching.

Like I said, you should let Christ know that. It seems you think you know more than Christ does.
 

Brickjectivity

Turned to Stone. Now I stretch daily.
Staff member
Premium Member
Yeah sure. And there is not going to be "an awesome day of the LORD" (Joel 2:31-32), whereas "My servant David" will be "king", and "they shall live on the land that I gave to Jacob My servant, in which your fathers lived" (Ezekiel 37:24-25). If you are going to make comments about Scripture, you might want to read actually what it says. As for the 1967 Israel war, as according to Joel 3:1, Jerusalem, and Judah were "restored" for the first time in around 2000 years. (Hosea 6:2) Judah starts keeping "My statutes" after David is made king (Ezekiel 37:24). As for the "nations"/Gentiles, "I will completely destroy all the nations where I have scattered you (Jacob)". (Jeremiah 30:11). You might want start looking for a rock to hide under (Revelation 6:16), as the anniversary of the angel of death flying over, is right around the corner.
Accusing people of not reading scripture does not prove that you yourself have or that you approach it in a way that is more meaningful and is simple bullying. Again, Daniel is apocrypha not history though you seem not to accept that fact. Revelation is about our walk, not a crystal ball; and Israel's Knesset is secular. The country 'Israel' is a cool place but is not the end game. Notice that Jews now have the physical location of the historical Jerusalem, yet the city does not have peace. It is not Jerusalem, yet.
 

2ndpillar

Well-Known Member
Accusing people of not reading scripture does not prove that you yourself have or that you approach it in a way that is more meaningful and is simple bullying. Again, Daniel is apocrypha not history though you seem not to accept that fact. Revelation is about our walk, not a crystal ball; and Israel's Knesset is secular. The country 'Israel' is a cool place but is not the end game. Notice that Jews now have the physical location of the historical Jerusalem, yet the city does not have peace. It is not Jerusalem, yet.

See, now if you had read Scripture, you would have known that Jerusalem will have to be "captured" (Zechariah 14:1-3) before the "gathered" (Revelation 16:13-19) nations are "crushed" (Daniel 2:35) & (Zechariah 14:12), and all the surviving nations start keeping the statute of God, which requires them to keep the feast of Boots (Zechariah 14:16). As for Daniel being "apocrypha", well, there are three chapters which are not in the Protestant bible, which are considered such, but I have not referred to them. As for the Knesset being secular, well, Jerusalem hasn't been "captured" yet, and king David doesn't rule at this time (Ezekiel 37:24-25). Give it some time. At that time, the "Word of God" will smite the nations, and rule them with a "rod of iron" (Revelation 19:15). Why push your luck. Revelation is not about your walk, it is about the end of your walk down the "broad" "way" to "destruction" (Matthew 7:13). It is about the "awesome day of the LORD" when those with the mark, the mark of the dragon, given to the 7th head of the beast and his false prophet, will get to drink the wine of the "wrath of God". That wine has probably been in the bottle past it's expiration date.
 

Brickjectivity

Turned to Stone. Now I stretch daily.
Staff member
Premium Member
See, now if you had read Scripture, you would have known that Jerusalem will have to be "captured" (Zechariah 14:1-3)
...but supposing I have read scripture and am just smarter than you or limiting the scripture less in some way? Its not so hard to imagine. I guess for you it is?

before the "gathered" (Revelation 16:13-19) nations are "crushed" (Daniel 2:35)
There you go again asserting Daniel as history and not only as history but in addition as future history.

& (Zechariah 14:12), and all the surviving nations start keeping the statute of God, which requires them to keep the feast of Boots (Zechariah 14:16).
Hold on. There is a giant leap here in which you say Zechariah is written about our time. Recall it is written over 3500 years ago, and since that time the city of Jerusalem becomes Jewish again and control is recovered under the Maccabees, but I guess that time period is immaterial and not mentionable by Zechariah? Does Zechariah say nothing about that? Too unimportant? Then control was lost again after about 150 years or so. Finally Jewish control was decimated by the Romans until very recently. So...what happens during the period of the Maccabees? Are you saying this prophecy in Zechariah isn't written about that? Where are all of the nations that are fighting against Jerusalem today? Name them, because I am not seeing that many -- Lebanon maybe or Hamas perhaps. What about USA? We are Israel's ally and can blow anybody to smithereens. Zechariah 14:11 says Jerusalem will be inhabited and never again destroyed, but since the time of the prophecy and since the time of the Maccabeans it has been destroyed...two or more times. Tell me in what way did the LORD fight, feet standing on the Mt. of Olives, when the Romans came to take Jerusalem? Clearly it was not in the way you imagine. What about when the Crusaders came to Jerusalem? In what way did the LORD fight, feet standing upon the Mt. Olive? When all the nations surrounded Jerusalem then during the Middle Ages? So at this time when almost no nations are arrayed with armies around that physical city, this is the time you think to say that the nations are arrayed against it; and this time you say the LORD will with physical feet descend upon the Mt. Olives. Nevermind all of the speeches in the Bible which you say I have not read. Nevermind the HUNDRED TIMES that we are told that our weapons are not carnal -- but for you its got to be about feet and the dividing of a mountain. Nevermind that in the Bible (which I have read) plagues are not necessarily about illness but can be about spiritual illnesses and blindness. When Zechariah says ever pot will be Holy to the LORD do you then think he is talking about tea kettles, too? I wonder if you have even the least claim to talk about which of us has read the Bible.
 
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