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Featured Who understands and can explain the meaning of Romans 9:3-4?

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by Amikam Israel, May 23, 2019.

  1. Gerry

    Gerry Well-Known Member

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    There are plenty of Israelites today, but I doubt there are many living in the patch of sand in the Middle East that is called Israel.
     
  2. Wandering Monk

    Wandering Monk Well-Known Member

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    If he wasn't being so enigmatic, it would be easier to have a decent debate.
     
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  3. Amikam Israel

    Amikam Israel Israelite From the Tribe of Judah

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    Sure it is rubbish to you, but it is clear what the Bible says.
    If the israelites are Christians, then why does the bible go through all of the trouble to explain the lineage from Adam to Christ? I suppose it does not matter if you are Israel or not by lineage and where does the Bible say that? Where does the bible even say that Israelites and Christians?
     
  4. Wandering Monk

    Wandering Monk Well-Known Member

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    I think Paul was saying the he wished he could be accursed (like Christ was) in order to save his people Israel (like Christ wanted to do.)
     
  5. KenS

    KenS Face to face with my Father
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    To me it sounds like he is interceding for his countrymen with great desire that they would know Jesus Christ.
     
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  6. robocop (actually)

    robocop (actually) Well-Known Member
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    That was about Christ's lineage... anyone can be a follower of Christ. That I'm pretty sure is the mainstream position.
     
  7. Amikam Israel

    Amikam Israel Israelite From the Tribe of Judah

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    Yes, particularly Jeremiah 31:1 which states:
    And Jeremiah 31:31
    Who are the neighbors verse 34 is a continuation of verse 33 which is talking about Israel. It means that no longer will people like Paul have to go around teaching the remnant of Israel to repent because Israel will already know the law and no such thing will need to be done anymore. Paul was not preaching to any other nation. He was preaching to the remnant of Israel. Paul was preaching to his brethren. Re-read Romans 9:3-4:
    Paul was never preaching to Christians. He was preaching to his own people.
     
  8. whirlingmerc

    whirlingmerc Well-Known Member

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    It means there can be both joy and sorrow in the Christian life

    Paul just wrote all things work for good for those who love God and nothing can separate
    us form God. he has deep joy

    At the same time he has deep sorrow that his fellow Jews by and large do not experience this love and are in a crisis of judgement as are many in the world

    Additionally it suggests one can be physically from Abraham's lineage and yet lost. Ishmael and Essau come to mind as examples.
     
  9. Amikam Israel

    Amikam Israel Israelite From the Tribe of Judah

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    No, that's the Christian perspective. Christians are not Israelites. Who was Jesus and Paul preaching to?
     
  10. Amikam Israel

    Amikam Israel Israelite From the Tribe of Judah

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    And who is the God that is to be loved?
     
  11. Amikam Israel

    Amikam Israel Israelite From the Tribe of Judah

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    But are the Israelites Christians? That is what needs to be clarified because Romans 9:3-4 clearly state that the laws, covenants and promises pertain to the Israelites, not any other nation and not Christians.
     
  12. Wandering Monk

    Wandering Monk Well-Known Member

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    What doe you mean when you call your religion 'Israelite' on your profile?
     
  13. Amikam Israel

    Amikam Israel Israelite From the Tribe of Judah

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    When did Paul ever say this? Show me the script.
     
  14. Amikam Israel

    Amikam Israel Israelite From the Tribe of Judah

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    I was am stating who I am, but it has nothing to do with religion. They give me the option to put a religion, but I defy that by stating who I am. Of course Israelite is not a religion because the bible has nothing to do with religion. The Bible is all about the history, traditions, laws, teachings, covenants and promises of a particular people. The Bible was never a religion for people to believe in. It was a book that is of, by, and for the Israelites.
     
  15. Amikam Israel

    Amikam Israel Israelite From the Tribe of Judah

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    The Christians are Israelites? Where does the bible say this? I'll wait
     
  16. robocop (actually)

    robocop (actually) Well-Known Member
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    Maybe Jesus implied this when he said out of stones could God raise up seed of Abraham.
     
  17. Amikam Israel

    Amikam Israel Israelite From the Tribe of Judah

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    Script and verse you're referring to please? It's better to reference scripture than to imply things.
     
  18. Amikam Israel

    Amikam Israel Israelite From the Tribe of Judah

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    But what does that verse mean for Christians?
     
  19. robocop (actually)

    robocop (actually) Well-Known Member
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    Luke 3
     
  20. Amikam Israel

    Amikam Israel Israelite From the Tribe of Judah

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    What I'm asking is, where did he say Christian? But furthermore and more specifically, what I'm looking to understand is, where does it say the covenants pertain to Christians. Where does it say The laws pertain to Christians? Where does it say the service of God pertain to Christians? Where does it say the promises pertain to Christians?
     
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