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Featured Who understands and can explain the meaning of Romans 9:3-4?

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by Amikam Israel, May 23, 2019.

  1. Amikam Israel

    Amikam Israel Israelite From the Tribe of Judah

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    Romans 9:3-4 states:
    3 For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh:
    4 Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants,and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;

    This is the correct understanding of Romans 9:3-4: Paul is saying that he wishes that he could sacrifice himself, his right to Christ's kingdom, for the sake of his brethren the Israelites:

    The Israelites were adopted by God of Israel to be his chosen people (Deuteronomy 7:6).

    The Israelites witnessed God's glory (Exodus 24:17).


    The covenants of God of Israel belong to the Israelites (Deuteronomy 29:1) and (Hebrews 8:10):





    The laws of God of Israel were given to the Israelites because they are his people (Leviticus 26:46):


    The service of God of Israel through the keeping his laws, statutes, and commandments belong to the Israelites (Exodus 25:2&9) (Deuternomy 4:1):
    The promises (Salvation, Repentance, and Forgiveness of Sins, and Kingdom of Heaven) belong to the Israelites (Isaiah 45:17), (Romans 10:1), (Jeremiah 23:6), (Romans 9:27), (Romans 11:26), (Acts 5:31) , (Acts 13:24) , (Revelation 21:12).

    The promises are as follows:

    Israel will be saved (all people? No, Just Israel):

    Repentance and Forgiveness of Sins will be given to Israel (not Christians or any other nation)

    Oh check that script again. Did God raise Jesus unto all nations or Christians. No, God of Israel raised Jesus unto Israel. Oh it makes so much sense now.

    Who is getting the Kingdom? Christians all nations? Let's see:
    The kingdom is for the twelve tribes of Israel. How do you get Christianity out of that? Are the Israelites Christians? The Israelites are the people who are the descendants of ancient Israel. The difference between Christianity and Israelites is this: Christianity is a religion, but Israelites are a chosen people
     
    #1 Amikam Israel, May 23, 2019
    Last edited: May 24, 2019
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  2. Rival

    Rival Noachide Counter-Revolutionary
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    I have no idea what verse 3 is saying, but verse 4 appears to be Paul saying that his brethren are the Israelites/Jewish people, with whom the covenant was made.
     
  3. Brickjectivity

    Brickjectivity Avatar Change Imminent
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    Its ancient language. To explain it in the debate section of a forum would take a long time.
    Eight subjects, none of which are explained in any NT letter nor fully in any of the books in the canon. Maybe one problem is that we are starting in the NT? It doesn't explain things and expects familiarity. Keep in mind most churches formed before modern Archeology revealed a lot of the details of how people used to live, so a lot of hard opinions formed on this subject without adequate historical knowledge. In addition not many people consulted scholars on these subjects, so again there are lots of odd opinions out there touted as facts. All 8 subjects are alluded to in other books but not explained.
     
  4. Enoch07

    Enoch07 It's all a sick freaking joke.
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    *warning*

    Be very careful how you interpret this scripture. Some racist people use it to put all Jewish people in a bad light, by taking it out of context.

    Tread carefully.
     
  5. Ellen Brown

    Ellen Brown Well-Known Member
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    Suggest that you read all of chapter 9 and then come back to that. Perhaps try it in several different versions? At first blush, it looks like gobbledygook to me. This will take some work. I wonder how others have interpreted it?
     
  6. Amikam Israel

    Amikam Israel Israelite From the Tribe of Judah

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    Are you saying that Israelites and Jewish are the same people? Is there a bible verse to back up this claim?
     
  7. Rival

    Rival Noachide Counter-Revolutionary
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    No, Israelites are the group to whom the Torah was given and Jewish people - those of the Tribe of Judah - are the remnant currently left that we know today as Jews. By the time Paul was around the term Iudaios was in use by Greeks and Romans, as the northern tribes had been carried away and scattered by Assyria.
     
    #7 Rival, May 23, 2019
    Last edited: May 23, 2019
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  8. sooda

    sooda Well-Known Member

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    Romans 9:3 (KJV) - Forerunner Commentary - Bible Tools
    https://www.bibletools.org/index.cfm/fuseaction/Bible.show/sVerseID/28159/eVerseID/28159
    Romans 9:3 Paul felt bitter disappointment that the great majority of his fellow Jews were rejecting Christ . Not only was he willing to give his physical life for them, but he would have actually forfeited his eternal life in God's Kingdom, if necessary, to ensure the widespread conversion of the Jews.
     
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  9. sooda

    sooda Well-Known Member

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    Paul is saying that he would give his life AND his eternal life for his brethren (Jews) to accept the Christ.
     
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  10. Amikam Israel

    Amikam Israel Israelite From the Tribe of Judah

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    Paul is emphasizing that all these things belong to Israel not any other nation. Why is that gobbledygook to you?
     
    #10 Amikam Israel, May 23, 2019
    Last edited: May 23, 2019
  11. Rival

    Rival Noachide Counter-Revolutionary
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    I am so useless with and ignorant of Paul, thank G-d, and this makes little sense without context.
     
  12. Amikam Israel

    Amikam Israel Israelite From the Tribe of Judah

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    Good explanation of Romans 9:3, but who are the Jews and why have you not interpreted verse four?
     
  13. sooda

    sooda Well-Known Member

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    Paul's brethren .. Paul was a Jew.
     
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  14. Skwim

    Skwim Veteran Member

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    .


    Romans 9:2-4 Easy-to-Read Version
    2 I have great sorrow and always feel much sadness 3 for my own people. They are my brothers and sisters, my earthly family. I wish I could help them. I would even have a curse on me and cut myself off from Christ if that would help them. 4 They are the people of Israel, God’s chosen children. They have the glory of God and the agreements he made between himself and his people. God gave them the Law of Moses, the Temple worship, and his promises.​


    .
     
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  15. Amikam Israel

    Amikam Israel Israelite From the Tribe of Judah

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    Actually, he was not a Jew. He was an Israelite from the tribe of Benjamin. Jews are of the tribe of Judah. Check Romans 11:1
     
  16. Amikam Israel

    Amikam Israel Israelite From the Tribe of Judah

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    Who were the original Jews and what people living today are the remnant of Israel?
     
  17. Rival

    Rival Noachide Counter-Revolutionary
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    This question doesn't really make much sense. What do you mean 'original Jews'? They were the people of the Kingdom of Judah, after which their religion was named for them by others. Their modern counterparts trace their lineage back to these same people.
     
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  18. Amikam Israel

    Amikam Israel Israelite From the Tribe of Judah

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    Which people living today are you referring to were able to trace their lineage and how did they do it?
     
  19. sooda

    sooda Well-Known Member

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    "Paul said, I am a man which am a Jew of Tarsus, a city in Cilicia" (Acts 21:39 KJV)

    "I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin." (Romans 11:1 KJV)

    Paul clearly states in the verses above that he was an Israelite of the tribe of Benjamin. But he also said that he was a Jew, that is, of Judah, which like Benjamin was one of the twelve tribes of Israel (see Children of Jacob ).
     
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  20. Rival

    Rival Noachide Counter-Revolutionary
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    With genetic sampling.

    Is there anywhere you are going with this?
     
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