Who should decide what medical procedures and examinations you need to undergo?

[Revoltingest]

I would hope health care providors would stand united as a collective and relentless force against such things. Libertarians have their philosophies, health care providors have thier job and livlihood.

It's more than philosophy.
We live in the country which seeks to impose such things upon us.

Have you ever had government types, threaten you with arrest,
pull guns on you, & otherwise abuse you? I have. It sux.

 

[fantome profane]

While I'm in complete agreement with Planned Parenthood here, just what is it about a second pelvic exam that's so bad? It's as if the procedure is really traumatizing.

.

According to patients and doctors, yes.

 

[Skwim]

Thats basically "'nuff said" as it ot only wastes time and resources, it also needlessly exposes patients to the possible sideffects, needlessly. There is no justification for it when weighing benefit vs risk.

Excuse me, but I'm pretty naive here. What are the side effects and risks of a pelvic exam, at least to the extent that woman would be distressed by one?

.

 

[Skwim]

According to patients and doctors, yes.

Curious; have they said why it's so traumatizing?

.

 

[SomeRandom]

Unless we are talking about 'universal health care.' Then, of course, the decision regarding what health care is available is completely up to, er....the government.

Just ask anybody who needs treatment for an 'orphan disease' in the UK or Canada or Australia or pretty much anywhere else that has it.

...and no, I don't support the 'two pelvic exams before an abortion' law. That, too, should be between the doctor and the patient. Period.


......................and remember; I am very 'pro-life.' That's a stupid law.

*raises hand sheepishly*
I’m Australian.
My father had an “orphan disease” (if I’m correct in assuming what you meant by that.)
In and out of hospital for years. Sure, wait times were annoying.
Our system needs a major make over. I make no argument otherwise.

Still, I don’t recall any doctors, nurses, reception staff or even the janitor consulting the government for what type of treatment they thought best. They just did their thing, we pay consulting fees to our GP ( half back with Medicare.)

Sure a lot of doctors are simply in it for the money. Pharma is a powerful and insidious industry.

But you want to swap horror stories?
How about your government refusing simple stitches for someone not having insurance? Charging people for a freaking ambo or a hospital birth like its some kind of privilege?
I have heard my fair share from my American cousins. People bandaging themselves up to avoid hospital fees. Often badly because, you know, they lack basic medical training.
People terrified of going bankrupt if they get ill.

Every time I hear these stories, I am suddenly thankful for our rubbish system and pledge never to speak ill of it ever again.
Though I agree we should do a hell of a lot better with experimental treatments or illnesses that are rare. Which is really where you run into the bulk of the issues you speak of.
Though sure to us poorer plebs not on health funds, the wait times are often egregious.

 

[dianaiad]

*raises hand sheepishly*
I’m Australian.
My father had an “orphan disease” (if I’m correct in assuming what you meant by that.)
In and out of hospital for years. Sure, wait times were annoying.
Our system needs a major make over. I make no argument otherwise.

Still, I don’t recall any doctors, nurses, reception staff or even the janitor consulting the government for what type of treatment they thought best. They just did their thing, we pay consulting fees to our GP ( half back with Medicare.)

Sure a lot of doctors are simply in it for the money. Pharma is a powerful and insidious industry.

But you want to swap horror stories?
How about your government refusing simple stitches for someone not having insurance? Charging people for a freaking ambo or a hospital birth like its some kind of privilege?
I have heard my fair share from my American cousins. People bandaging themselves up to avoid hospital fees. Often badly because, you know, they lack basic medical training.
People terrified of going bankrupt if they get ill.

Every time I hear these stories, I am suddenly thankful for our rubbish system and pledge never to speak ill of it ever again.
Though I agree we should do a hell of a lot better with experimental treatments or illnesses that are rare. Which is really where you run into the bulk of the issues you speak of.
Though sure to us poorer plebs not on health funds, the wait times are often egregious.

Sometimes those wait times are fatal.
And yes, in the US, those without insurance are SOL.

What we need to do is figure out a way for us all to share the costs of the premiums...and have private insurance companies compete for those premiums.

Obama care was/is a total and complete disaster.

If we could just....

Well, I dunno, but 'single payer' health insurance ain't it.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

We live in the country which seeks to impose such things upon us.

That's my point. Libertarians don't live healthcare as healthcare providers do.

 

[Revoltingest]

That's my point. Libertarians don't live healthcare as healthcare providers do.

Most of us live it as consumers.
And aspects of providing health care are the family business.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Excuse me, but I'm pretty naive here. What are the side effects and risks of a pelvic exam, at least to the extent that woman would be distressed by one?

.

A doctor has to get in there and look around, so injury and infection are a definite.

 

[Curious George]

Well i am glad everyone here seems to be for a parent's right to decide on circumcision.

Eta: and vaccination

 

[SomeRandom]

Sometimes those wait times are fatal.
And yes, in the US, those without insurance are SOL.

What we need to do is figure out a way for us all to share the costs of the premiums...and have private insurance companies compete for those premiums.

Obama care was/is a total and complete disaster.

If we could just....

Well, I dunno, but 'single payer' health insurance ain't it.

Agreed.
And people going into bankruptcy to pay for cancer treatment is beyond deplorable (there was a running joke/meme that Breaking Bad would be a slice of life story about a man battling cancer, whilst receiving NHS/Medicare treatment if remade in the UK or Aus. And that’s from the same people who complain about each system extensively.)
Health care should not be run for profit. It just creates too much incentive for money over lives. And quite frankly the pharma companies hold far too much power and money.

 

[fantome profane]

Curious; have they said why it's so traumatizing?

.

Come here and put your legs in these stirrups and I will show you.

 

[Skwim]

A doctor has to get in there and look around, so injury and infection are a definite.

By "definite" are you saying inevitable? If not, just what is the likelihood?

.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

By "definite" are you saying inevitable? If not, just what is the likelihood?

.

A definite possibility. No medical procedure is without risk.

 

[Skwim]

A definite possibility. No medical procedure is without risk.

The American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists (ACOG) recommends that women have yearly [pelvic] exams, starting at age 21.
source
​

Boy, as a routine procedure, I wouldn't think there would be much of anything to be concerned about.

And there doesn't seem to be:

"What are the risks of a pelvic examination?

There are no risks from a pelvic examination."
source
​

So, other than being wholly unnecessary, time consuming, inconvenient, and perhaps costly to some, I don't see any significant objection. That said, I believe these are more than enough reasons to not require them.

.

.

.

 

[Milton Platt]

It seems to me, as a Brit, that legislation should never stipulate the detail of medical procedures, That must, surely, be left to what we call over here "clinical judgement".

Laws can obviously be passed concerning abortion, contraception, euthanasia etc., as matters of public ethics and social policy, but that should not require specifying medical procedures.

Correct. such laws are not passed in the interest of the woman's health, but rather to make abortions difficult and expensive. It is completely impossible for a legislature to know what medical procedures every woman needs.