1. Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Who Should Be Eligible For Or Exempt From The Draft?

Discussion in 'North American Politics' started by Revoltingest, Jul 22, 2021 at 8:19 AM.

  1. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest I have the kavorka
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2010
    Messages:
    189,577
    Ratings:
    +66,252
    Religion:
    Atheist
    Yet....men (except for trans men) must register.
    Some have since advocated reviving the draft
    even in peace time, eg, Chas Rangel.
     
  2. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest I have the kavorka
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2010
    Messages:
    189,577
    Ratings:
    +66,252
    Religion:
    Atheist
    The unicorn industry has costs.
    And since it's privatized, it cannot be free....ya socialist!
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
  3. Secret Chief

    Secret Chief Meghalayan Ape

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2011
    Messages:
    8,724
    Ratings:
    +6,789
    Religion:
    Buddhism
    Why? "Just in case" ?
     
  4. Nakosis

    Nakosis crystal soldier
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2011
    Messages:
    17,807
    Ratings:
    +8,241
    Religion:
    Atheist Libertarian
    The government coerces me to pay taxes. :shrug:
    Others may feel this a duty. Got to be done sometimes.

    No exceptions. That's the ideal. Politics often gets in the way of the ideal.

    A lot of things happen against the will of the individual for the benefit of the society at large. If you don't want to support society then you shouldn't get any benefit of being a part of it.
    Go find some forgotten corner of the world and be self-sufficient.
    If you want to be part of society you have to take the good with the bad.
    I wouldn't put a rifle in the hands of someone who has no willingness to use it to defend their country against invasion. They can serve in other ways.
     
  5. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest I have the kavorka
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2010
    Messages:
    189,577
    Ratings:
    +66,252
    Religion:
    Atheist
    A libertarian's perspective....
    Coercion is impossible to avoid, but should be minimized.
    Paying taxes doesn't cause the loss of civil liberties such as
    freedom of movement or choice of occupation. Nor does it
    pose any danger, eg, stepping on punji sticks in Viet Nam.

    To maximize liberty for all, I favor paying taxes to finance
    compensating voluntary soldiers.
    For those who feel the call of duty, this is fine with me.
    But if they feel that I'm called to duty, there will be disagreement.
    There are always exceptions. And in a real war, we all know
    that the burden of front line gruntitude will fall disproportionately
    on men.
    This doesn't give government the right to impose any burden
    upon a minority of the population. Turning this around....
    If anyone wants draftees to be forced at minimal pay to
    defend them, they shouldn't be part of society.
    I prefer the option of an all volunteer army.
    There's still no need to force service upon the unwilling.
     
  6. Friend of Mara

    Friend of Mara Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2020
    Messages:
    478
    Ratings:
    +293
    Religion:
    Spiritual
    Wait...do you hate the government most of the time too?
     
  7. beenherebeforeagain

    beenherebeforeagain Rogue Animist
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2011
    Messages:
    21,323
    Ratings:
    +7,627
    Religion:
    Modern Animist
    I'd like it if there were a non-military service option. Perhaps even mandatory, although I'm personally of two minds about that...

    But government service in other-than-military roles. Many government operations at the local, state and federal level could be provided in a similar manner.
     
  8. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest I have the kavorka
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2010
    Messages:
    189,577
    Ratings:
    +66,252
    Religion:
    Atheist
    [​IMG]
     
  9. Stevicus

    Stevicus Veteran Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2011
    Messages:
    20,544
    Ratings:
    +12,760
    Religion:
    Agnostic
    I didn't actually propose this, but are you saying that the top 1% shouldn't pay their fair share? They're the only ones who benefit from war. Most of what the government spends money on is for the benefit of the top 1%, while they do none of the work. The work of society is done by the working classes, so they should be exempt just for that reason alone. The wealthy idlers and people of leisure should be made to pay, since they provide no useful purpose for society.

    Everyone should pay what they owe. The workers have already done their part. Now is the time for the 1% to pay, and they should be made to pay dearly. They have centuries of wealth built up that they need to atone for, at least 500 years worth. Their comeuppance is overdue.
     
  10. Valjean

    Valjean Veteran Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2004
    Messages:
    27,203
    Ratings:
    +13,918
    Religion:
    Vedanta (reform)
    But it sounds better if you call it community service. ;)
     
  11. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest I have the kavorka
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2010
    Messages:
    189,577
    Ratings:
    +66,252
    Religion:
    Atheist
    Oh, great...a question loaded with socialist rhetoric.
    Anyway, WW2 was the last self defense war.
     
  12. Valjean

    Valjean Veteran Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2004
    Messages:
    27,203
    Ratings:
    +13,918
    Religion:
    Vedanta (reform)
    When was the last time the US military "defended" anything but corporate interests and capitalism itself?
     
  13. Valjean

    Valjean Veteran Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2004
    Messages:
    27,203
    Ratings:
    +13,918
    Religion:
    Vedanta (reform)
    Pravda! -- So we're in agreement. :D
     
    • Like Like x 1
  14. Valjean

    Valjean Veteran Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2004
    Messages:
    27,203
    Ratings:
    +13,918
    Religion:
    Vedanta (reform)
    What makes it 'their' country, an accident of birth?
    Should I support my local street gang, as well, if I chance to live on their turf??

    Invasion? That might be a serious possibility in Lithuania or Hong Kong, but in a country like the US, it wouldn't be worth anyone's trouble. Consider Vietnam or Afghanistan, tiny, undeveloped countries, but even major world powers couldn't hold them against determined local opposition.
     
  15. Valjean

    Valjean Veteran Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2004
    Messages:
    27,203
    Ratings:
    +13,918
    Religion:
    Vedanta (reform)
    But what does "serve one's country" mean? You're certainly not serving the people.

    The military creates the very enemies it purports to defend us from. It's adventurism has created a police-surveillance state here in the US. It's god-awful expensive, and guess who pays most of the bill.

    Who benefits?
     
  16. Valjean

    Valjean Veteran Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2004
    Messages:
    27,203
    Ratings:
    +13,918
    Religion:
    Vedanta (reform)
    But the US militarism is an impediment to liberty, both abroad and at home. Look how quickly the Homeland Security Act appeared after 9/11. Look at Snowden's revelations: how domestic surveillance has become universal. Look how the police have been militarized.
     
  17. Shaul

    Shaul Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2016
    Messages:
    4,157
    Ratings:
    +1,809
    Religion:
    Judaism
    “Fair share”? Hilarious. When it’s not your ox being gored “fair” it is capricious.

    I say it would be fair that all your wealth should confiscated and none of mine. Does that sound fair to you?
     
  18. Valjean

    Valjean Veteran Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2004
    Messages:
    27,203
    Ratings:
    +13,918
    Religion:
    Vedanta (reform)

    What makes it "my" wealth? I gained it by exploitation. I utilized the infrastructure paid for by taxes to amass it. It benefits me not a whit to hoard it or spend it on ostentatious status markers.
    Meanwhile, The People can't afford healthcare or education, and most Americans can't afford a $400. emergency expense.

    The lifestyles of the rich are not, in the least, discommoded by heavy taxation. It is not a burden to them. Taxes affect the middle and working classes. Even so, taxes, properly utilized, could benefit them.
     
  19. Friend of Mara

    Friend of Mara Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2020
    Messages:
    478
    Ratings:
    +293
    Religion:
    Spiritual
    A fun thought experiment I'd like to hear your answer on.
    "Is it possible to make a good government?" and by extension "How would the ideal government function?"
    edit.
    For fun my answer is "no" and "with unicorn dust".

    Though I do think that there are collaborative things that only governments (or at least organized collaboration of resources) can do well. Not that they will but potentially could. But I didn't vote for Vermin Supreme to have a big state daddy.
     
  20. Friend of Mara

    Friend of Mara Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2020
    Messages:
    478
    Ratings:
    +293
    Religion:
    Spiritual
    Their ox is an amalgamation of bits gored from those that actually did the work.
     
    • Like Like x 1
Loading...