Who saved whom?

[doppelganger]

I asked this on another thread, but it's really a new topic.

Did Jesus redeem humanity? Or did Jesus redeem "God"?

Think carefully about it . . .

 

[James the Persian]

The answer is neither. I'm not sure exactly what you're after or what you expect me to think about, but the Incarnation was about the salvation of all creation, not just humanity and certainly not God.

James

 

[doppelganger]

the Incarnation was about the salvation of all creation, not just humanity and certainly not God.

What is "Creation"? From what did "Creation" need saving?

 

[James the Persian]

What is "Creation"? From what did "Creation" need saving?

Creation is everything other than God (for He is the only uncreated thing). You're asking the wrong question, though. It shouldn't be 'From what did it need saving?', but 'For what...'.

James

 

[Scuba Pete]

This reminds me of the God Paradox as told by the Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy:

The argument goes something like this:
"I REFUSE TO PROVE THAT I EXIST", says God, "FOR PROOF DENIES FAITH, AND WITHOUT FAITH I AM NOTHING. " "But," says Man, "the Babel fish is a dead giveaway isn't it? It could not have evolved by chance. It proves you exist, and so therefore, by your own arguments, you don't, QED."

"OH DEAR", says God, "I HADN'T THOUGHT OF THAT", and promptly vanishes in a puff of logic.
"Oh, that was easy!", says Man, and for an encore goes on to prove that black equals white and gets killed on the next Zebra crossing.
Most leading theologians claim this argument is a load of dingo's kidneys, but this did not stop Oolon Colluphid making a small fortune when he used it as the central theme of his best-seller, "Well That About Wraps It Up For God".

 

[doppelganger]

Creation is everything other than God (for He is the only uncreated thing). You're asking the wrong question, though. It shouldn't be 'From what did it need saving?', but 'For what...'.

James

No, the correct question is "from what?" though that's a nice rhetorical trick. Regardless of what someone is saving something for, there would be no need to save it unless there were something to save it from.

For example, I could save "that chocolote cake" for my birthday by making sure nobody eats it before then. If there's nothing threatening its existence until my birthday, there's no need to save it. It will still be there regardless of what I do.

So from what does "Creation" need saving?

 

[angellous_evangellous]

I asked this on another thread, but it's really a new topic.

Did Jesus redeem humanity? Or did Jesus redeem "God"?

Think carefully about it . . .

Both in my opinion.

Process Theology of the Cross

 

[angellous_evangellous]

No, the correct question is "from what?" though that's a nice rhetorical trick.

Eastern and western theology are very different. The for/from distinction is more than a semantic ploy but represents very different theologies.

 

[doppelganger]

Eastern and western theology are very different. The for/from distinction is more than a semantic ploy but represents very different theologies.

Then why does "Creation" need saving for something?

 

[doppelganger]

Both in my opinion.

Process Theology of the Cross

That's sort of how I view it. By redeeming one you necessarily have redeemed the other.

http://agnosticgnostic.blogspot.com/2006/10/ego-eimi.html

 

[angellous_evangellous]

That's sort of how I view it. By redeeming one you necessarily have redeemed the other.

http://agnosticgnostic.blogspot.com/2006/10/ego-eimi.html

I don't think that it's over yet, though. Our ongoing struggle with evil and God's refusal to end it will not cease until the redemption process is complete.

Christ is therefore crucified every day in the Mass until it's finally over.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

From what did "Creation" need saving?

"For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now." Romans 8:22 kjv

 

[sandy whitelinger]

Then why does "Creation" need saving for something?

Only man is saved "for" something.

"Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth......" 2Pet 3:13 kjv

 

[adilrockstar]

I asked this on another thread, but it's really a new topic.

Did Jesus redeem humanity? Or did Jesus redeem "God"?

Think carefully about it . . .

God needs no redemtion, he answers to nothing. All things answer to Him.

 

[Yerda]

God needs no redemtion, he answers to nothing. All things answer to Him.

Perhaps the OP was referring to the redemption of the tyrant in the OT. He may not have been the most palatable deity for the masses. Just a guess.

 

[doppelganger]

God needs no redemtion, he answers to nothing. All things answer to Him.

That's why he definitely needed saving.