Who knows the real basis for Thanksgiving?

[2ndpillar]

Was it started by some religious refugees fleeing from the persecution of the Church of England, who fled to Holland, and then 40 of them took passage on a boat into the unknown America, and landed at Plymouth rock?
Did they form a communal form of government which lasted barely 1 year with about half of the group dying, before issuing plots to each member to own and grow on, and soon the community flourished, and the now flourishing community decided to thank God, and they also invited Indians to share in their new bounty, for the Indians and been helpful in teaching them basic knowledge which allowed them to survive the first winter. This is the story written by their first governor, and the guy who had organized the journey. Is that the real story, or is what you are taught in school the correct version. And why did the communal form of government fail. Apparently, according to the governor, it was because the good workers didn't want to work to provide for the lazy, and the lazy, did not want to work at all. Kind of why all communal types of governments fail, with most of the people dying or living in poverty. (Venezuela, Cuba, Mao's China, Stalin's Russia).

https://www.history.com/topics/colonial-america/william-bradford

 

[Father Heathen]

How about some sources?

 

[SalixIncendium]

Was it started by some religious refugees fleeing from the persecution of the Church of England, who fled to Holland, and then 40 of them took passage on a boat into the unknown America, and landed at Plymouth rock?
Did they form a communal form of government which lasted barely 1 year with about half of the group dying, before issuing plots to each member to own and grow on, and soon the community flourished, and the now flourishing community decided to thank God, and they also invited Indians to share in their new bounty, for the Indians and been helpful in teaching them basic knowledge which allowed them to survive the first winter. This is the story written by their first governor, and the guy who had organized the journey. Is that the real story, or is what you are taught in school the correct version. And why did the communal form of government fail. Apparently, according to the governor, it was because the good workers didn't want to work to provide for the lazy, and the lazy, did not want to work at all. Kind of why all communal types of governments fail, with most of the people dying or living in poverty. (Venezuela, Cuba, Mao's China, Stalin's Russia).

 

[2ndpillar]

How about some sources?

Book written by William Bradford, governor of the Plymouth Colony:
https://www.history.com/topics/colonial-america/william-bradford

 

[Thief]

there's a five minute Prager U......description
see Youtube and it pops up at random prior to your choice of topic
good luck

or maybe Google search

 

[Sunstone]

Thanksgiving became a permanent national holiday under Lincoln in 1863. The person most responsible for persuading Lincoln to adopt the holiday was Sarah Josepha Hale, who also was the author of "Mary had a little lamb". She had been lobbying presidents for 17 years by both personal letters and editorials until Lincoln finally took her up on her idea of a national Thanksgiving holiday. Apparently, the day was originally intended to help unify and mend the country after the "stresses" of the Civil War.

Google it.

 

[2ndpillar]

Thanksgiving became a permanent national holiday under Lincoln in 1863. The person most responsible for persuading Lincoln to adopt the holiday was Sarah Josepha Hale, who also was the author of "Mary had a little lamb". She had been lobbying presidents for 17 years by both personal letters and editorials until Lincoln finally took her up on her idea of a national Thanksgiving holiday. Apparently, the day was originally intended to help unify and mend the country after the "stresses" of the Civil War.

Google it.

I believe Lincoln politicized Thanksgiving 3 centuries after the original Thanksgiving. I believe it was Roosevelt, who nationalized it, and set a unform date, around the time of the great depression. I guess he thought black Friday would boost the economy.

 

[Sunstone]

I believe Lincoln politicized Thanksgiving 3 centuries after the original Thanksgiving. I believe it was Roosevelt, who nationalized it, and set a unform date, around the time of the great depression. I guess he thought black Friday would boost the economy.

You don't think Lincoln "nationalized" it, as you call it. Google is your friend here.

Lincoln's date for it was the last Thursday of November. Roosevelt changed that to the fourth Thursday of November. He wanted to increase the shopping days before Christmas as a means of improving the economy.

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

A bunch of illegal immigrants too stupid to go to someplace new without supplies or skills found an ex-slave who taught them something they should really know already, like how to eat, and gave thanks by killing nearly all the inhabitants.
*fixed

 

[columbus]

Was it started by some religious refugees fleeing from the persecution of the Church of England, who fled to Holland, and then 40 of them took passage on a boat into the unknown America, and landed at Plymouth rock?

Do you also believe that Christopher Columbus discovered America?
Tom

 

[YmirGF]

Do you also believe that Christopher Columbus discovered America?
Tom

Can you imagine if the Vikings had settled North America? That would have been some funky culture.

 

[2ndpillar]

A bunch of illegal immigrants too stupid to go to someplace new without supplies or skills found an ex-slave who taught them something they should really know already, like how to eat, and gave thanks by killing nearly all the inhabitants.
*fixed

Actually, the Plymouth Colony got along quite well with the Indians. And after they canned their venture into a type of communist type communalism, which led to death by starvation and disease, they took on a private property perspective, which led to a bounty of goods, which ended up with them giving thanks to God, and inviting their Indian friends to partake in a feast.

 

[2ndpillar]

Can you imagine if the Vikings had settled North America? That would have been some funky culture.

Well, the Vikings tried to start settlements, but generally failed, and left little evidence of their venture.

 

[Sleeppy]

Actually, the Plymouth Colony got along quite well with the Indians. And after they canned their venture into a type of communist type communalism, which led to death by starvation and disease, they took on a private property perspective, which led to a bounty of goods, which ended up with them giving thanks to God, and inviting their Indian friends to partake in a feast.

Acts 2:44

 

[2ndpillar]

Acts 2:44

Apparently the Plymouth Separatist took the unknown writer of Acts 2:44 seriously, and around half died of disease and starvation as a result. They rebounded quickly once they went to private property. The kingdom of God results in everyone having their own plot and own fig tree (Micah 4:4). Those that hang onto Peter and his heir the pope, will be "cut off" (Isaiah 22:15-25).

New American Standard Bible Micah 4:4
Each of them will sit under his vine And under his fig tree, With no one to make them afraid, For the mouth of the LORD of hosts has spoken.

 

[ChristineM]

fleeing from the persecution of the Church of England, who fled to Holland, and then 40 of them took passage on a boat into the unknown America, and landed at Plymouth rock?

It is said in the uk that the Puritans left because they did not like religious freedom - they wanted to create an unfree religious society comprised of their beliefs only. The reverse to what the puritan myth states.

The puritans also abolished trial by jury as they felt it was not biblical - so I guess they were basically early stalinists.

They also murdered people if they felt they were quakers - hardly the freedom lovers of the myth.

And some more info from A Guide to QI. Series I, Episode 8 'inequality and injustice' - The Qibble Blog

"Firstly the Pilgrim Fathers were not Puritans. Puritans stayed in the old country (and the old church) to 'purify' it. Those who simply couldn't bear to stay with all those heathens or in their horrible church but decided to set up their own church or just bugger off to pastures new instead were known as 'Seperatists'. Puritans don't really start emigrating until after 1630. The New Haven colony were Puritans.
...
The Mayflower first dropped anchor at Provincetown, not Plymouth, nor was Plymouth named by the Pilgrims after the English port from which they left. That was just a co-incidence as the settlement had already been named Plymouth by John Smith from the Charlestown expedition who had petitioned the king to be allowed to give the coastal settlements what he considered proper English names. "​

 

[2ndpillar]

It is said in the uk that the Puritans left because they did not like religious freedom - they wanted to create an unfree religious society comprised of their beliefs only. The reverse to what the puritan myth states.

The "Pilgrims" were known as Separatist. The Puritans, who also followed Calvin, were better know as the Nonseparating Episcopalians, who simply thought they could purge/purify the church of England of the remnants of Catholicism. The "Separatist" did not bow down to the Church of England, which was simply another offshoot of the Roman Church, with different leadership. Apparently the Roman church, in one instance, didn't concur with the English king killing one of his mates, therefore a new church of England was created out of the existing Roman church. As the English king was head of the Anglican church, the Separatist could face jail or death. They chose to go to the Netherlands, and some eventually to become the Plymouth colony.

 

[Brickjectivity]

Was it started by some religious refugees fleeing from the persecution of the Church of England, who fled to Holland, and then 40 of them took passage on a boat into the unknown America, and landed at Plymouth rock?
Did they form a communal form of government which lasted barely 1 year with about half of the group dying, before issuing plots to each member to own and grow on, and soon the community flourished, and the now flourishing community decided to thank God, and they also invited Indians to share in their new bounty, for the Indians and been helpful in teaching them basic knowledge which allowed them to survive the first winter. This is the story written by their first governor, and the guy who had organized the journey. Is that the real story, or is what you are taught in school the correct version. And why did the communal form of government fail. Apparently, according to the governor, it was because the good workers didn't want to work to provide for the lazy, and the lazy, did not want to work at all. Kind of why all communal types of governments fail, with most of the people dying or living in poverty. (Venezuela, Cuba, Mao's China, Stalin's Russia).

https://www.history.com/topics/colonial-america/william-bradford

I believe in the Charlie Brown special that I watched yesterday. Charlie Brown, Peppermint Patty, Snoopy and Marcie were all there dressed like hollanders. Chief Massasoite saved everyone. It was beautiful. Amazon.com: Watch This Is America, Charlie Brown: The Mayflower Voyagers | Prime Video

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

I still don't understand all the American carry on about "the pilgrims". Your first permanent settlement was at Jamestown.