Who is to Blame?

[rrobs]

Throughout history there have been an untold number of atrocities supposedly committed by those who hold to the scriptures (Bible). Christianity is considered by many to be the worse thing that could have ever existed. But is Christianity really to blame?

Since the end of the first century Christianity is much more aligned with Greek philosophy and Egyptian mythology than with the Bible. The trinity, immortal soul, eternity in the ether, are but a few of the doctrines held by Orthodox Christianity. But these doctrines come straight out of the Greek and Egyptian cultures and have no direct evidence in the scriptures themselves.

Would it not therefore be more appropriate to blame Greek philosophy and Egyptian mythology for the above mentioned atrocities? Can you imagine Jesus being party to the inquisition?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

The problem is that the Bible does contain many passages such as "thou shalt not suffer a witch to live," and on several circumstances someone's execution is mandated. Jesus, probably would be a no with the Inquisition, but clearly the Father did say to kill apostates and other sorts. And Paul isn't much like Jesus either.

 

[Skwim]

Throughout history there have been an untold number of atrocities supposedly committed by those who hold to the scriptures (Bible). Christianity is considered by many to be the worse thing that could have ever existed. But is Christianity really to blame?

Since the end of the first century Christianity is much more aligned with Greek philosophy and Egyptian mythology than with the Bible. The trinity, immortal soul, eternity in the ether, are but a few of the doctrines held by Orthodox Christianity. But these doctrines come straight out of the Greek and Egyptian cultures and have no direct evidence in the scriptures themselves.

Would it not therefore be more appropriate to blame Greek philosophy and Egyptian mythology for the above mentioned atrocities? Can you imagine Jesus being party to the inquisition?

You'll have to spell out those Greek philosophies and Egyptian myths that formed doctrines precipitating the atrocities. Personally, I don't see any connection between the doctrine of the trinity or the notion of an immortal soul with any atrocities. Whatcha got?

.

 

[ChristineM]

Throughout history there have been an untold number of atrocities supposedly committed by those who hold to the scriptures (Bible). Christianity is considered by many to be the worse thing that could have ever existed. But is Christianity really to blame?

Since the end of the first century Christianity is much more aligned with Greek philosophy and Egyptian mythology than with the Bible. The trinity, immortal soul, eternity in the ether, are but a few of the doctrines held by Orthodox Christianity. But these doctrines come straight out of the Greek and Egyptian cultures and have no direct evidence in the scriptures themselves.

Would it not therefore be more appropriate to blame Greek philosophy and Egyptian mythology for the above mentioned atrocities? Can you imagine Jesus being party to the inquisition?

The bible is a pretty horrendous book, particularly the OT. It condones genocide, murder, theft, slavery, rape and much more.

Many christians say only the NT is relevant to them but a am guessing that every one of them had studied the OT and learned from it.

 

[rrobs]

Any thoughts as to why witches and other apostates were to be killed? It is noteworthy that all the commands to kill were in the Old Testament. Of course Christianity is a product of the New Testament. You won't find God (or Paul) telling Christians to kill anybody in the NT. Jesus even completely forgave those who crucified him.

For God's plan of redemption to work it was necessary that nothing stand in the way of Jesus' bloodline. It was also necessary for the Jews to stay true to the scriptures. As it was, they were constantly drawn to the religious beliefs of those by whom they were surrounded, forgetting the things God had told them. Had they completely forgotten the scriptures as given to them by God, Jesus would not have been able to come and redeem them. Someone needed to keep the message alive so that a woman could say, "Be it done unto me according to thy word." Apparently Mary was expecting the redeemer. Had she not had the scriptures she, a virgin at the time, could hardly have believed to give birth to Jesus. You can hardly do what you don't know.

Jesus was the purpose of the ages, of God's plan. He is the subject of the Bible from Genesis 3:15 to the end of Revelation. Everything God did in the OT was to ensure the hope would stay alive. God plainly says that He would have all be saved. That is His desire. The scriptures plainly declare, "God is love." Of course, many people were at odds with God and would have done anything to thwart His plan. There were countless attempts by many in the OT to kill the ancestors of Jesus and thus prevent him from ever being born. Apparently God had to do something about that. Hence the command to kill the enemies of truth.

But, as I said before, now that Jesus has come things are quite a bit different. No need to eliminate those who oppose the truth because the job is finished. Death is conquered and the new heavens and new earth (no pain, suffering, sorrow, sickness, etc.) are sure to come.

Take care.

 

[rrobs]

You'll have to spell out those Greek philosophies and Egyptian myths that formed doctrines precipitating the atrocities. Personally, I don't see any connection between the doctrine of the trinity or the notion of an immortal soul with any atrocities. Whatcha got?.

I would spell them out, but it would be better for you to see for yourself. It shouldn't take but a few hours of internet research to see that what I said is true.

I got 1,500,000 pages when I Googled "Gnosticism immortal soul." I've known for quite some time that the immortality of the soul is very much a Gnostic mainstay. I thought anybody with an ounce of religion study would know that. And you are a Gnostic? Maybe a different brand or something.

 

[rrobs]

The bible is a pretty horrendous book, particularly the OT. It condones genocide, murder, theft, slavery, rape and much more.

Many christians say only the NT is relevant to them but a am guessing that every one of them had studied the OT and learned from it.

Well, the NT says the following about the OT,

Rom 15:4,

For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope.
​

So yes, there is plenty to learn from the OT.

I asked someone else here (See post #5 in this thread) if they knew why God ordered the killing in the OT. I then gave a scripturaly plausible answer of my own. Note particularly that I said there are no such commandments in the NT. You gotta wonder why.

 

[ChristineM]

Well, the NT says the following about the OT,

Rom 15:4,

For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope.
​

So yes, there is plenty to learn from the OT.

I asked someone else here (See post #5 in this thread) if they knew why God ordered the killing in the OT. I then gave a scripturaly plausible answer of my own. Note particularly that I said there are no such commandments in the NT. You gotta wonder why.

Anyone can make excuses to suite their faith.

It does not really matter why, there are such commandments in the OT

 

[epronovost]

Christians are to blame for the atrocities commited in the name of their faith just like everybody else. Their faith can only be blamed for not having thought them kindness, tolerance, knowledge, curiosity and reasons to a high degree enough.

As for your question about Jesus being part of the Inquisition. I would say that if you believe in eternal judgement after your earthly demise, Jesus is far worse then any Inquisition. He judges and condemned to an eternity of torture and misery all those who did not bow his rules. As an atheist, I would be considered a blasphemer and the NT is pretty clear about the fact that blasphemy is pretty the worst thing possibly imagineable and deserves the worst punishment. If any of this is true, I am destined for an eternity of torment.

 

[rrobs]

Anyone can make excuses to suite their faith.

It does not really matter why, there are such commandments in the OT

The OP was about Christians who were not around in the OT. But I'll gladly detour for a moment.

You are so right about making excuses for one's faith. It is much easier to do that than have genuine understanding about any intellectual pursuit. That takes work!

I almost hate to say it, but I noticed that you just decided it doesn't matter, instead of honestly looking into the matter with an open mind. Practically speaking, that is no different than making excuses. I don't mean to attack you, but it did strike me as pertinent.

Whether or not one takes the Bible as truth or a fairy tale does not take away the fact that it is a literary work. Like any story, it has characters, a plot, a theme, etc. One thing is certain, a good story must follow a logical course of action. Again, this applies to fairy tales as well as "A Tale of Two Cities." For any literature to stand the test of time, the author must ensure there is a logical story line. That means everything he writes does matter. If nothing mattered there would be no story. So, you see, the things that did happen in the OT matter greatly.

Besides, what you call excuses is actually a knowledge arrived at by a thorough research of the matter at hand. Anybody with a willing mind can learn why the things that happened in the OT happened. Excuses are not required to explain God's plan. It explains itself in the scriptures.

OK. I'm done with this OT stuff. Of course I'll read any reply you may have, but I am still looking for answers to the OP? The essence of the question is, is history filled with heinous atrocities promoted by genuine Christians or by Greek philosophy and Egyptian mythology? We (not everybody of course) claim to be governed by "Judaeo Christian" ethics. I'm claiming that we are in fact governed by the ethical system spawned by decidedly non-Christian doctrine.

 

[Guitar's Cry]

The OP was about Christians who were not around in the OT. But I'll gladly detour for a moment.

The OP concerns atrocities committed in the name of Christianity. Since those Christians who committed those atrocities used the OT to justify their violence, shouldn't it be pertinent?

It appears more likely that the violence stemmed from human cruelty and greed justified with Scripture rather than doctrines of the Trinity and immortal soul.

 

[leov]

Well, the NT says the following about the OT,

Rom 15:4,

For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope.
​

So yes, there is plenty to learn from the OT.

I asked someone else here (See post #5 in this thread) if they knew why God ordered the killing in the OT. I then gave a scripturaly plausible answer of my own. Note particularly that I said there are no such commandments in the NT. You gotta wonder why.

OT is not history, it is a theological guidebook, it deals with different levels of consciousness, there was Cain who murdered his brother, there was Abraham who argued with God of how many better soul could save Sodom, there were brothers of Josef who sold their brother into slavery...some people read Tanakh in literal sense some not.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Throughout history there have been an untold number of atrocities supposedly committed by those who hold to the scriptures (Bible). Christianity is considered by many to be the worse thing that could have ever existed. But is Christianity really to blame?

Since the end of the first century Christianity is much more aligned with Greek philosophy and Egyptian mythology than with the Bible. The trinity, immortal soul, eternity in the ether, are but a few of the doctrines held by Orthodox Christianity. But these doctrines come straight out of the Greek and Egyptian cultures and have no direct evidence in the scriptures themselves.

Would it not therefore be more appropriate to blame Greek philosophy and Egyptian mythology for the above mentioned atrocities? Can you imagine Jesus being party to the inquisition?

Well given the history of Christianity there's no denying it has a violent past that still crops up time the time even to this day.

You would be correct that the violence isn't just limited to Christianity. A lot of religions have checkered pasts. Especially those where appeasement is it's central theme.

 

[rrobs]

The OP concerns atrocities committed in the name of Christianity. Since those Christians who committed those atrocities used the OT to justify their violence, shouldn't it be pertinent?

It appears more likely that the violence stemmed from human cruelty and greed justified with Scripture rather than doctrines of the Trinity and immortal soul.

As you said, they may well have used the OT as justification. However, it is worth noting that there is nothing in the Book of Acts (the history of the early church) that would indicate that the Christians of that time exhibited anything but genuine love for all people. There is no record whatsoever of the first century Christians committing any heinous acts.

The first century church shared little with the beliefs of the established religions of their time. Those religions were decidedly Greek, Roman, and Egyptian in character. But little by little, the new converts naturally brought with them their world view shaped by those Pagan religions. By the time the atrocities began in earnest, Christianity bore but slight resemblance to that of the first century. That is where we are today. Many of the key doctrines held by Christians can be traced to extra-scriptural sources, notably the aforementioned religions. Scripture was abandoned for religion.

Had the new converts clung to the truth as laid out by the early Apostles, the world would be a much different place. The inquisition would never have occurred. That is why I believe the blame for those atrocities (and many others) should be laid on the shoulders of Greek philosophy and Egyptian mythology. We are a society completely shaped by those ideals and that shaping has taken place over a course of some 2,000 years.

 

[rrobs]

Well given the history of Christianity there's no denying it has a violent past that still crops up time the time even to this day.

You would be correct that the violence isn't just limited to Christianity. A lot of religions have checkered pasts. Especially those where appeasement is it's central theme.

I think that anybody who commits violence in the name of any religion has no real idea of what their religion actually says. As far as I can tell 99.9% of religions have love as the basis for all action.

 

[rrobs]

Christians are to blame for the atrocities commited in the name of their faith just like everybody else. Their faith can only be blamed for not having thought them kindness, tolerance, knowledge, curiosity and reasons to a high degree enough

Even the most casual reading the Book of Acts (early church history) and the Epistles will reveal that they exhibited nothing but kindness, tolerance, knowledge, etc. In short, love was the order of the day. Obviously something changed. I'm just saying that that change came as the early Christians abandoned the doctrine taught them by the apostles and adopted the doctrines of the Greeks, Romans, and Egyptians.

As for your question about Jesus being part of the Inquisition. I would say that if you believe in eternal judgement after your earthly demise, Jesus is far worse then any Inquisition. He judges and condemned to an eternity of torture and misery all those who did not bow his rules. As an atheist, I would be considered a blasphemer and the NT is pretty clear about the fact that blasphemy is pretty the worst thing possibly imagineable and deserves the worst punishment. If any of this is true, I am destined for an eternity of torment.

God will judge people by their heart. Man judges by outward appearance, but God considers the whole matter. The world is filled, by and large, with decent people. None of us always do the right thing. It's just our nature. We hurt others but usually it is unintentional and God understands our limitations. In any case, I believe that the vast majority of people will enjoy eternity in a revamped Garden of Eden.

Atheism is not an automatic sentence to eternal suffering. Revelation tells us that God will throw the truly evil people into a lake of fire. Now think about that; How long can a person survive in a lake of fire? Certainly not forever! It'll be a flash. It is called "the second death" in Revelation. Nobody feels anything in death. Dead is dead. According to the scriptures there is no consciousness in death.

 

[Milton Platt]

Throughout history there have been an untold number of atrocities supposedly committed by those who hold to the scriptures (Bible). Christianity is considered by many to be the worse thing that could have ever existed. But is Christianity really to blame?

Since the end of the first century Christianity is much more aligned with Greek philosophy and Egyptian mythology than with the Bible. The trinity, immortal soul, eternity in the ether, are but a few of the doctrines held by Orthodox Christianity. But these doctrines come straight out of the Greek and Egyptian cultures and have no direct evidence in the scriptures themselves.

Would it not therefore be more appropriate to blame Greek philosophy and Egyptian mythology for the above mentioned atrocities? Can you imagine Jesus being party to the inquisition?

I would blame those other religions for atrocities committed in their name. I would blame Christianity for those atrocities committed in it's name.

 

[shunyadragon]

Throughout history there have been an untold number of atrocities supposedly committed by those who hold to the scriptures (Bible). Christianity is considered by many to be the worse thing that could have ever existed. But is Christianity really to blame?

Since the end of the first century Christianity is much more aligned with Greek philosophy and Egyptian mythology than with the Bible. The trinity, immortal soul, eternity in the ether, are but a few of the doctrines held by Orthodox Christianity. But these doctrines come straight out of the Greek and Egyptian cultures and have no direct evidence in the scriptures themselves.

Would it not therefore be more appropriate to blame Greek philosophy and Egyptian mythology for the above mentioned atrocities? Can you imagine Jesus being party to the inquisition?

The only people to blame are those that cling to ancient religions and worldviews in the contemporary world. Ancient religions were anchored in the ancient cultures of the past, and remain narrowly oriented today. Christianity became progressively influenced by Hellenist and Roman influence beginning with Paul progressed after ~100 AD, and reflects the culture, which is no longer relevant in a universal perspective of the contemporary world.

 

[Thief]

The immortal soul, eternity in the ether, are but a few of the doctrines held by Orthodox Christianity. But these doctrines come straight out of the Greek and Egyptian cultures and have no direct evidence in the scriptures themselves.

Can you imagine Jesus being party to the inquisition?

so.....with exclusions of your post noted.....

Jesus is where?

and if you want to be ...'there'
with Him

will He not inquire...BEFORE He allows you to stay
WHAT do you believe?
WHO told you that?
WHY?.....did you believe it

 

[Thief]

Christians are to blame for the atrocities commited in the name of their faith just like everybody else. Their faith can only be blamed for not having thought them kindness, tolerance, knowledge, curiosity and reasons to a high degree enough.

As for your question about Jesus being part of the Inquisition. I would say that if you believe in eternal judgement after your earthly demise, Jesus is far worse then any Inquisition. He judges and condemned to an eternity of torture and misery all those who did not bow his rules. As an atheist, I would be considered a blasphemer and the NT is pretty clear about the fact that blasphemy is pretty the worst thing possibly imagineable and deserves the worst punishment. If any of this is true, I am destined for an eternity of torment.

and realizing this...

you could be saved