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Who is the watchtowers Jesus?

djhwoodwerks

Well-Known Member
The NWT has Jesus as "a god", but their teachings have Him as an archangel. Is there such a thing as an angel god, or a god angel?


John 1:1 (NWT) In the beginning was the Word,+ and the Word was with God,+ and the Word was a god


*** rs p. 218 par. 2 Jesus Christ ***
At 1 Thessalonians 4:16 (RS), the command of Jesus Christ for the resurrection to begin is described as “the archangel’s call,” and Jude 9 says that the archangel is Michael. Would it be appropriate to liken Jesus’ commanding call to that of someone lesser in authority? Reasonably, then, the archangel Michael is Jesus Christ. (Interestingly, the expression “archangel” is never found in the plural in the Scriptures, thus implying that there is only one.)
 

Ingledsva

HEATHEN ALASKAN
The NWT has Jesus as "a god", but their teachings have Him as an archangel. Is there such a thing as an angel god, or a god angel?


John 1:1 (NWT) In the beginning was the Word,+ and the Word was with God,+ and the Word was a god


*** rs p. 218 par. 2 Jesus Christ ***
At 1 Thessalonians 4:16 (RS), the command of Jesus Christ for the resurrection to begin is described as “the archangel’s call,” and Jude 9 says that the archangel is Michael. Would it be appropriate to liken Jesus’ commanding call to that of someone lesser in authority? Reasonably, then, the archangel Michael is Jesus Christ. (Interestingly, the expression “archangel” is never found in the plural in the Scriptures, thus implying that there is only one.)

I don't believe the Bible anywhere says Jesus is God.

Jesus never said he was God, or part of any trinity.

There is no - "a" God, - at the end of John 1:1.

It actually ends with -

... and Theos is the Logos.

*
 
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savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
The NWT has Jesus as "a god", but their teachings have Him as an archangel. Is there such a thing as an angel god, or a god angel?


John 1:1 (NWT) In the beginning was the Word,+ and the Word was with God,+ and the Word was a god


*** rs p. 218 par. 2 Jesus Christ ***
At 1 Thessalonians 4:16 (RS), the command of Jesus Christ for the resurrection to begin is described as “the archangel’s call,” and Jude 9 says that the archangel is Michael. Would it be appropriate to liken Jesus’ commanding call to that of someone lesser in authority? Reasonably, then, the archangel Michael is Jesus Christ. (Interestingly, the expression “archangel” is never found in the plural in the Scriptures, thus implying that there is only one.)
An archangels call: an obvious (to some, not all) loud, heaven sent sound.
 

David1967

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
The watchtower Jesus was invented a little over a hundred years ago. Watchtower Jesus doesn't like catholics or protestants, and doesn't allow blood transfusions to save lives, because Watchtower Jesus thinks blood transfusions is same as drinking blood. Watchtower Jesus is not to be confused with the Jesus of scripture who said in John3:16 that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have everlasting life. Watchtower Jesus thinks only Jehovah's witnesses get everlasting life. :rolleyes:
 

Raahim

مكتوب
The watchtower Jesus was invented a little over a hundred years ago. Watchtower Jesus doesn't like catholics or protestants, and doesn't allow blood transfusions to save lives, because Watchtower Jesus thinks blood transfusions is same as drinking blood. Watchtower Jesus is not to be confused with the Jesus of scripture who said in John3:16 that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have everlasting life. Watchtower Jesus thinks only Jehovah's witnesses get everlasting life. :rolleyes:

I thought Jesus liked everyone, guess he doesn't. Ehh.
 

djhwoodwerks

Well-Known Member
The watchtower Jesus was invented a little over a hundred years ago. Watchtower Jesus doesn't like catholics or protestants, and doesn't allow blood transfusions to save lives, because Watchtower Jesus thinks blood transfusions is same as drinking blood. Watchtower Jesus is not to be confused with the Jesus of scripture who said in John3:16 that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have everlasting life. Watchtower Jesus thinks only Jehovah's witnesses get everlasting life. :rolleyes:

This is all true! Only 144,000 get eternal life in heaven, the rest of WT gets everlasting life on earth.
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
The watchtower Jesus was invented a little over a hundred years ago. Watchtower Jesus doesn't like catholics or protestants, and doesn't allow blood transfusions to save lives, because Watchtower Jesus thinks blood transfusions is same as drinking blood. Watchtower Jesus is not to be confused with the Jesus of scripture who said in John3:16 that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have everlasting life. Watchtower Jesus thinks only Jehovah's witnesses get everlasting life. :rolleyes:

Sorry to spoil your little party there David but none of that is actually true. Let me show you why....

"The watchtower Jesus was invented a little over a hundred years ago"

The Jesus of the Bible was rediscovered a little over 100 years ago when a small group of Christians uncovered the biggest lie in Christendom...the invention of the trinity. It took over 300 years for the church to officially establish that the "one God" of the Jews (and hence the same God as Jesus worshipped) was actually a three headed, split personality. This doctrine contravenes the first Commandment....and goes against everything that Jesus taught. He called his Father "the only true God" (John 17:3) and says that we must worship "Him alone" (Luke 4:8)

The apostles too were in no doubt about who the true God was...

1 Cor 8:5, 6:
"For although there may be so-called gods in heaven or on earth—as indeed there are many “gods” and many “lords”— 6 yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist."

Watchtower Jesus doesn't like catholics or protestants
The Jesus of the Bible loves those who love the truth. The Catholic Church has not ever demonstrated a love for the truth but instead promoted lies from the beginning about the relationship of Father and son. Protestantism broke away from the mother church but took her erroneous doctrines with them. Jesus loves people enough to give his life for them, but only those who render acceptable worship will benefit from his sacrifice....Christendom never has, which is why Jesus can say at the judgment "I never knew you"....(Matthew 7:21-23)


doesn't allow blood transfusions to save lives
Blood transfusions don't save very many lives at all. If you refer to my other thread on the subject you can see that the medical profession is now acknowledging this, deeming almost 90% of them to be unnecessary and even dangerous. According to the medical specialists, people would have actually recovered better without them.

The Bible tells Christians to "abstain from blood". (Acts 15:28, 29) Look up the word "abstain" in the dictionary.

because Watchtower Jesus thinks blood transfusions is same as drinking blood

When people cannot eat by mouth, they are often fed intravenously. Same difference as far as we are concerned.

Watchtower Jesus is not to be confused with the Jesus of scripture who said in John3:16 that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have everlasting life.

The first part of John 3:16 is always highlighted but the last part of that verse is hardly ever emphasized...."whoever believes in him shall not perish but have everlasting life".
What does it mean to "believe". What does it mean to "perish"?

James 2:19:
"You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the demons believe—and shudder!" Is that the kind of 'belief' Jesus speaking about?

I think you need to get an better idea of what it means to "believe" because as James also said "faith without works is dead".

Watchtower Jesus thinks only Jehovah's witnesses get everlasting life

Well you see that implies that only those who wear some kind of label are somehow approved by God. That could not be further from the truth. I have no doubt that there are some who wear the label of "Jehovah's Witness" but are anything but in their personal life, even though they may show up for meetings at the Kingdom Hall. "Doing the will of the Father" requires more than empty performance or putting on a face for others,living a double life. It requires that we have a close and personal relationship with God and are guided by his spirit in our everyday lives. It means to serve God first in all we do.

The truth is Jehovah has always had his witnesses (Isaiah 43:10) right from the time of Abel. (Hebrews 12:1-3) Since a "witness" is one who testifies as to the truthfulness of a matter, Jehovah has always needed his people to stand up to opposition from satan, who has always tried to get his people to worship unacceptably.
Sometimes that opposition came from outside and sometimes it came from within, just as it did in Jesus' day. Jesus' worst enemies were his own people. Even his own siblings did not accept him as Messiah until after his death and resurrection.

Since Jesus said that "few" are on the road to life, (Matthew 7:13-14) we have to look for those who are in a minority, not a majority. God's people have always been united under one belief system and one set of laws. Those who wanted to break that unity by promoting their own ideas were expelled from the early congregations. (2 John 8-11)
There was one truth and the apostles did not deviate from it. Everyone had to adhere to this one truth. After the apostles died, Christianity went completely off the rails. When Christendom was formed with the introduction of Roman Catholicism in the 4th century, they deviated big time from what Jesus taught. If you think the apostasy didn't happen, then think again. The "weeds" that Jesus foretold did not spring up only a hundred years ago.
 

David1967

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Sorry to spoil your little party there David but none of that is actually true. Let me show you why....

"The watchtower Jesus was invented a little over a hundred years ago"

The Jesus of the Bible was rediscovered a little over 100 years ago when a small group of Christians uncovered the biggest lie in Christendom...the invention of the trinity. It took over 300 years for the church to officially establish that the "one God" of the Jews (and hence the same God as Jesus worshipped) was actually a three headed, split personality. This doctrine contravenes the first Commandment....and goes against everything that Jesus taught. He called his Father "the only true God" (John 17:3) and says that we must worship "Him alone" (Luke 4:8)

The apostles too were in no doubt about who the true God was...

1 Cor 8:5, 6:
"For although there may be so-called gods in heaven or on earth—as indeed there are many “gods” and many “lords”— 6 yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist."

Watchtower Jesus doesn't like catholics or protestants
The Jesus of the Bible loves those who love the truth. The Catholic Church has not ever demonstrated a love for the truth but instead promoted lies from the beginning about the relationship of Father and son. Protestantism broke away from the mother church but took her erroneous doctrines with them. Jesus loves people enough to give his life for them, but only those who render acceptable worship will benefit from his sacrifice....Christendom never has, which is why Jesus can say at the judgment "I never knew you"....(Matthew 7:21-23)


doesn't allow blood transfusions to save lives
Blood transfusions don't save very many lives at all. If you refer to my other thread on the subject you can see that the medical profession is now acknowledging this, deeming almost 90% of them to be unnecessary and even dangerous. According to the medical specialists, people would have actually recovered better without them.

The Bible tells Christians to "abstain from blood". (Acts 15:28, 29) Look up the word "abstain" in the dictionary.

because Watchtower Jesus thinks blood transfusions is same as drinking blood

When people cannot eat by mouth, they are often fed intravenously. Same difference as far as we are concerned.

Watchtower Jesus is not to be confused with the Jesus of scripture who said in John3:16 that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have everlasting life.

The first part of John 3:16 is always highlighted but the last part of that verse is hardly ever emphasized...."whoever believes in him shall not perish but have everlasting life".
What does it mean to "believe". What does it mean to "perish"?

James 2:19:
"You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the demons believe—and shudder!" Is that the kind of 'belief' Jesus speaking about?

I think you need to get an better idea of what it means to "believe" because as James also said "faith without works is dead".

Watchtower Jesus thinks only Jehovah's witnesses get everlasting life

Well you see that implies that only those who wear some kind of label are somehow approved by God. That could not be further from the truth. I have no doubt that there are some who wear the label of "Jehovah's Witness" but are anything but in their personal life, even though they may show up for meetings at the Kingdom Hall. "Doing the will of the Father" requires more than empty performance or putting on a face for others,living a double life. It requires that we have a close and personal relationship with God and are guided by his spirit in our everyday lives. It means to serve God first in all we do.

The truth is Jehovah has always had his witnesses (Isaiah 43:10) right from the time of Abel. (Hebrews 12:1-3) Since a "witness" is one who testifies as to the truthfulness of a matter, Jehovah has always needed his people to stand up to opposition from satan, who has always tried to get his people to worship unacceptably.
Sometimes that opposition came from outside and sometimes it came from within, just as it did in Jesus' day. Jesus' worst enemies were his own people. Even his own siblings did not accept him as Messiah until after his death and resurrection.

Since Jesus said that "few" are on the road to life, (Matthew 7:13-14) we have to look for those who are in a minority, not a majority. God's people have always been united under one belief system and one set of laws. Those who wanted to break that unity by promoting their own ideas were expelled from the early congregations. (2 John 8-11)
There was one truth and the apostles did not deviate from it. Everyone had to adhere to this one truth. After the apostles died, Christianity went completely off the rails. When Christendom was formed with the introduction of Roman Catholicism in the 4th century, they deviated big time from what Jesus taught. If you think the apostasy didn't happen, then think again. The "weeds" that Jesus foretold did not spring up only a hundred years ago.

Hi Deeje. Maybe I'm misunderstanding your post. But it seems most of what you said reinforces what I said. You do however give the watchtowers reasons for thinking as they do. As far as blood transfusions? A man from my area was married to a woman who became a JW. They were in a motorcycle accident. He needed a blood transfusion. He was not a JW. Wife who was refused this life saving procedure for her non JW husband. She let him die. Her conversion proved deadly to her husband.
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Hi Deeje. Maybe I'm misunderstanding your post. But it seems most of what you said reinforces what I said. You do however give the watchtowers reasons for thinking as they do. As far as blood transfusions? A man from my area was married to a woman who became a JW. They were in a motorcycle accident. He needed a blood transfusion. He was not a JW. Wife who was refused this life saving procedure for her non JW husband. She let him die. Her conversion proved deadly to her husband.
Seems she broke one law to obey another one.
John 8:1-8
Romans 2:1-3
 

djhwoodwerks

Well-Known Member
Well you see that implies that only those who wear some kind of label are somehow approved by God. That could not be further from the truth. I have no doubt that there are some who wear the label of "Jehovah's Witness" but are anything but in their personal life, even though they may show up for meetings at the Kingdom Hall. "Doing the will of the Father" requires more than empty performance or putting on a face for others,living a double life. It requires that we have a close and personal relationship with God and are guided by his spirit in our everyday lives. It means to serve God first in all we do.

Is it "Really" not the truth? All you are saying is that not all JW's are "doing the will of the Father", which is true. Tells us, if someone has the label of "Baptist" are they approved by God? You did not say you don't have to be a JW to be approved by God, you just said that "some" JW's are not approved by God. The wt teachings are riddled with teachings that you have to belong to the organization of JW's to have any hope. Not all JW's are approved by God, but you have to be a JW to have any hope of being approved, isn't that correct?

Just another way the wt affiliates side step and not answer truthfully!
 

djhwoodwerks

Well-Known Member
Watchtower Jesus doesn't like catholics or protestants
The Jesus of the Bible loves those who love the truth. The Catholic Church has not ever demonstrated a love for the truth but instead promoted lies from the beginning about the relationship of Father and son. Protestantism broke away from the mother church but took her erroneous doctrines with them. Jesus loves people enough to give his life for them, but only those who render acceptable worship will benefit from his sacrifice....Christendom never has, which is why Jesus can say at the judgment "I never knew you"....(Matthew 7:21-23)

And only the JW's have the truth. Why would you go to all this work, when you could have just said, "that is correct"?
 

djhwoodwerks

Well-Known Member
The Jesus of the Bible was rediscovered a little over 100 years ago when a small group of Christians uncovered the biggest lie in Christendom...the invention of the trinity. It took over 300 years for the church to officially establish that the "one God" of the Jews (and hence the same God as Jesus worshipped) was actually a three headed, split personality. This doctrine contravenes the first Commandment....and goes against everything that Jesus taught. He called his Father "the only true God" (John 17:3) and says that we must worship "Him alone" (Luke 4:8)

The Jesus of the Bible loves those who love the truth. The Catholic Church has not ever demonstrated a love for the truth but instead promoted lies from the beginning about the relationship of Father and son. Protestantism broke away from the mother church but took her erroneous doctrines with them. Jesus loves people enough to give his life for them, but only those who render acceptable worship will benefit from his sacrifice....Christendom never has, which is why Jesus can say at the judgment "I never knew you"....(Matthew 7:21-23)

If the Bible students were uncovering the vicious lies of Christendom, why did the witnesses "break away" from them? They still hold the exact same beliefs as the Bible students do, why break away? Because Rutherford wanted to be in total control, and that's not the way Russell set it up.
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Is it "Really" not the truth? All you are saying is that not all JW's are "doing the will of the Father", which is true. Tells us, if someone has the label of "Baptist" are they approved by God? You did not say you don't have to be a JW to be approved by God, you just said that "some" JW's are not approved by God. The wt teachings are riddled with teachings that you have to belong to the organization of JW's to have any hope. Not all JW's are approved by God, but you have to be a JW to have any hope of being approved, isn't that correct?

Just another way the wt affiliates side step and not answer truthfully!
They will side step that last question too. They do not teach that a person must be a JW to be approved. But if you listen carefully to them you will hear that only the people who are or will be a Jehovah's Witness are approved by Jehovah.
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
The Jesus of the Bible loves those who love the truth. The Catholic Church has not ever demonstrated a love for the truth but instead promoted lies from the beginning about the relationship of Father and son.
Yes, and that is a terrible sin which will be punished by everlasting destruction.
But to teach lies about Jesus' relationship with the Earth and God's relationship with The Word is no sin at all. In fact, it is being taught that those who practice such sins will be granted everlasting life on a paradise Earth.
 

djhwoodwerks

Well-Known Member
They will side step that last question too. They do not teach that a person must be a JW to be approved. But if you listen carefully to them you will hear that only the people who are or will be a Jehovah's Witness are approved by Jehovah.

*** w89 9/1 p. 19 par. 7 Remaining Organized for Survival Into the Millennium ***
7 Only Jehovah’s Witnesses, those of the anointed remnant and the “great crowd,” as a united organization under the protection of the Supreme Organizer, have any Scriptural hope of surviving the impending end of this doomed system dominated by Satan the Devil. (Revelation 7:9-17; 2 Corinthians 4:4)


*** w93 9/15 p. 22 They Compassionately Shepherd the Little Sheep ***
But if we were to draw away from Jehovah’s organization, there would be no place else to go for salvation and true joy. (Compare John 6:66-69.)

There is no place to go for salvation except the wt org, we can't even go to Jesus for salvation. Notice the reference verses, they compare the governing body to Jesus Himself.
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
*** w89 9/1 p. 19 par. 7 Remaining Organized for Survival Into the Millennium ***
7 Only Jehovah’s Witnesses, those of the anointed remnant and the “great crowd,” as a united organization under the protection of the Supreme Organizer, have any Scriptural hope of surviving the impending end of this doomed system dominated by Satan the Devil. (Revelation 7:9-17; 2 Corinthians 4:4)


*** w93 9/15 p. 22 They Compassionately Shepherd the Little Sheep ***
But if we were to draw away from Jehovah’s organization, there would be no place else to go for salvation and true joy. (Compare John 6:66-69.)

There is no place to go for salvation except the wt org, we can't even go to Jesus for salvation. Notice the reference verses, they compare the governing body to Jesus Himself.
That is why I know something else is going on here. They really do say that at the judgement it is possible that a non-JW might be saved but that person will eventually have to submit.
They have not told me yet who they will submit to after the gb go to be 144,000.
 

djhwoodwerks

Well-Known Member
The International Bible Student's beliefs remain unchanged since the days of Brother Russell. We continue to treasure the Studies in the Scriptures, early Watchtowers and other writings of Brother Russell. We continue to believe the following:

Both the Old and New Testament are Jehovah's inspired words; the primary source of all Truth.

Man did not evolve but was created.

Jehovah created his only-begotten Son, Jesus. Jesus created all other things.

Jesus descended from heaven to earth and was born of Mary as a perfect human man, not as God in flesh.

God raised Jesus from death in a Spirit body, not in a physical body of flesh.

The Holy Spirit is Jehovah's active power and force, not a person.

The Trinity is nowhere found or taught in the Bible.

Man is mortal and does not possess an immortal soul. The soul ceases to exist after death.

There is no hell of fire where the wicked are punished. "Hell" is from the same Greek and Hebrew words for "grave," describing the sleep of death, not eternal torment.

We are now living in the "time of the end".

Jesus returned and has been invisibly present on earth since the early days of the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society.

The 144,000 of Revelation 7 are the anointed Bride of Christ in heaven.

Earth will never be literally destroyed or completely depopulated.

In the Kingdom, Christ will rule the earth in righteousness and peace.

By their faithfulness to God, the obedient of mankind will be granted what our original parents lost-everlasting life in human perfection on a paradise earth.


Since its humble beginnings, over 130 years ago, Bible Students all over the World have followed closely the Scriptural concept of Congregational Rule. This recognition of the local congregation as the highest earthly authority (Matt. 18:20) continues to be a significant difference between Bible Students and other Christian groups.

This was taken off their website 10 minutes ago. They have the exact same beliefs as the wt, so why did the wt "break away"? The IBS still use the "Studies in the scriptures" just as the wt does, why did the wt "break away" from them?
 

djhwoodwerks

Well-Known Member
That is why I know something else is going on here. They really do say that at the judgement it is possible that a non-JW might be saved but that person will eventually have to submit.
They have not told me yet who they will submit to after the gb go to be 144,000.

They will have to submit to the teaching of the gb. I will find it on their CD and re-post this. But that is what they teach.
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
The International Bible Student's beliefs remain unchanged since the days of Brother Russell. We continue to treasure the Studies in the Scriptures, early Watchtowers and other writings of Brother Russell. We continue to believe the following:

Both the Old and New Testament are Jehovah's inspired words; the primary source of all Truth.

Man did not evolve but was created.

Jehovah created his only-begotten Son, Jesus. Jesus created all other things.

Jesus descended from heaven to earth and was born of Mary as a perfect human man, not as God in flesh.

God raised Jesus from death in a Spirit body, not in a physical body of flesh.

The Holy Spirit is Jehovah's active power and force, not a person.

The Trinity is nowhere found or taught in the Bible.

Man is mortal and does not possess an immortal soul. The soul ceases to exist after death.

There is no hell of fire where the wicked are punished. "Hell" is from the same Greek and Hebrew words for "grave," describing the sleep of death, not eternal torment.

We are now living in the "time of the end".

Jesus returned and has been invisibly present on earth since the early days of the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society.

The 144,000 of Revelation 7 are the anointed Bride of Christ in heaven.

Earth will never be literally destroyed or completely depopulated.

In the Kingdom, Christ will rule the earth in righteousness and peace.

By their faithfulness to God, the obedient of mankind will be granted what our original parents lost-everlasting life in human perfection on a paradise earth.


Since its humble beginnings, over 130 years ago, Bible Students all over the World have followed closely the Scriptural concept of Congregational Rule. This recognition of the local congregation as the highest earthly authority (Matt. 18:20) continues to be a significant difference between Bible Students and other Christian groups.

This was taken off their website 10 minutes ago. They have the exact same beliefs as the wt, so why did the wt "break away"? The IBS still use the "Studies in the scriptures" just as the wt does, why did the wt "break away" from them?
Raises hand......................................................
 
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