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Who is the true church?

Discussion in 'Biblical Debates' started by phernduke, May 16, 2005.

  1. Katzpur

    Katzpur Not your average Mormon

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    I'm not going to attempt to speak on behalf of Jehovah's Witnesses, but I can tell you for sure that Mormons absolutely do not believe that only members of their church will be saved.

    As a Latter-day Saint, I believe the one Church containing the fulness of the gospel of Jesus Christ is the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Why? Because I believe in the apostasy prophesied by the Apostles (particularly Paul). I also believe that what was lost has been restored -- as was also prophesied. I believe this, too, because Mormon doctrines make sense to me. They answer the questions that other denominations can't answer to my satisfaction.

    However, that doesn't mean that I believe that Mormons are the only Christians and that everybody else is destined for an eternity in Hell. As a matter of fact, we probably believe in the biggest Heaven and the littlest Hell of any Christian denomination.

    Jesus Christ himself established a Church. If religion is a sin, then Christ must be a sinner. :eek: Of course, we're told in the scriptures that there is to be only one Lord, one faith and one baptism, so it is mathematically impossible for 30,000 different Christian denominations, each interpreting the scriptures, etc. differently to all be 100% true.

    Kathryn
     
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  2. Lloyd

    Lloyd Member

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    Now that I like!
     
  3. iaminterface

    iaminterface Member

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    Replace denomination with religion.

    I dunno, there are an awful lot of people out there that would claim otherwise.
     
  4. greatcalgarian

    greatcalgarian Well-Known Member

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    Definition of Bible from Concise oxford: Scriptures of the Old & New Testament, a copy of them, a particular edition of them. So which copy of bible are you referring to? I listed 25 here
    http://ca.geocities.com/greatcalgarian/Christianity.htm
    And each has evolved from from previous version. I consider a translated version as an offspring from the copy that the translator used.
    http://speedbible.com/vulgate/ So many of the current version of bible may be based on Vulgate, the Latin version, or is it better to get the Greek version? http://www.greekbible.com/

    Hence currently all the different copies of bible is the final product reflecting the changes introduced by the copist, the translator, and hence represent a process of evolution, changing to adapt to the new environment. Each person will claim his copy of the bible is the truth. So a true church only exists in the believe of each individual. Of course you can have a group of Christian, say adopting NIV may have a common ground and believe in the same 'true church'. However they may differ in many of their interpretation of the bible and doctrines etc.
     
  5. SpiritElf

    SpiritElf Member

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    As I said, the objective truth of God does not change, even though interpretations of it does. What people "claim" about God does not change the reality of God.

    Where, in the original copies of the Bible, are doctrines different? (cite verses that show where one "copy" of text differs from another in DOCTRINE)

    The true church, as before stated, is the assembly of all believers. Christ, as the living God, is the foundation of that church, and the head of the assembly.
     
  6. may

    may Well-Known Member

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    so there we go , its a translation error,so which translation is based on the original thoughtsof the pure word of God,and not manmade tradition:) it must be the one that is looking to get back to Gods thoughtsJehovah always uses those looking to do his will
     
  7. ker krypter

    ker krypter Member

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    constantine the great started the true church 330 a.d. it was not jesus who started the church but the religion. it is believed that jesus was killed because of his belief of no man should be using god for personal gain for him or his religion. it was a fear that the jews of power in rome might of been forming around that time. the theory goes against every religion that worships jesus.
    it would make sense that the christians changed the story and kept the man called jesus to add credit.thinking to take it one step farther then the jews made jesus a god. the christians were always the poorest ,ill, mentaly challenge of society and is hard to believe they recognized any signifigance of their religion other than lifting their people from the dirt they were casted. it took 300 yrs for the warning message of jesus to become true that man makes religion a profitable organization.
    constantine started the church after he led the christians to fight his war against rome. ruling a society of poor and hungry people gave him the oppuritunity to combine the church with the state making the church an institution and giving him full power to control. he also had his christian religious leaders write the canon (new testament) to add credibility to his scare tactics and brainwashing.constantine was never a christian so he certainly never believed for good reason. for 1300 yrs people were enslaved in a mindless church/state society where science art or any free thought was a crime against the church/state. to this day the effects of our brainwashed minds are evident in the taboo of sex and the legnth of time to become technologically advanced.
    free thinking and original thought has still a long way to go to be achieved by our society as a normal human trait.
    i believe if all religions have faith and they are true to themselves and beliefs. that they are true to the race of man and the planet thats been neglected. all should dissolve the church for the reason that it takes away from anyones freedom, to have a church that can influence power,become filthy rich in the name of god and be tax excempt to let the people who get their spirituality from within themselves and at home. why doesnt the christian/catholics pay restitution for the horror it has inflicted? because they are most powerful and control us still. with the church
     
  8. may

    may Well-Known Member

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    the foundation of the true church isJesus Christ,he made clear that he himself is that foundation. He applied to himself the prophecy of Psalm 118:22 [117:22, Dy], saying: "The stone that the builders rejected is the one that has become the chief cornerstone." (Matthew 21:42-44) The apostle Paul adds his testimony that Jesus is the "chief corner stone," writing to Christians at Ephesus: "You are fellow citizens with the saints and the domestics of God, built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone." (Ephesians 2:19, 20, Dy) The apostle was very definite about it, saying again: "For other foundation no man can lay, but that which is laid: which is Christ Jesus."—1 Corinthians 3:11, Dy

     
  9. phernduke

    phernduke Member

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    Wow I must say this is one of my better posts, less virtual blood shed!! :)

    Now, yes Jesus did establish the Church, yet he didn't establish the Lutherans, or the Brethren or mormons. He established a universal church, a one church, one faith, one baptism, like you said.

    So, if you were trying to say that Jesus created the church, to allow diversity, I can not believe this, for the church then, was related to the greek word "Kilikos" Meaning Universal, the universal church, which would later be translated Catholic, though the early church, even being Catholic(Meaning of course "Universal"), was not what it was today, it didn't get a wide spread corruption until about 300A.D. if I'm not mistaken.

    -Chris
     
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  10. SpiritElf

    SpiritElf Member

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    I don't know how anyone can believe that Constantine "created" the "true" church. How can you "create" a church that already exists? Obvious lack of history research there.
    And when exactly did Christians "change the story"? After 330 CE?
     
  11. The Black Whirlwind

    The Black Whirlwind Well-Known Member

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    my true church is jediism. your true church is what you make it. all are correct.
     
  12. ker krypter

    ker krypter Member

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    thats the church that still brainwashes us today .to me its the true church.
    true christian religion .power, money and domination
     
  13. Scott1

    Scott1 Well-Known Member

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    Which church is that?
     
  14. ker krypter

    ker krypter Member

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    the one that ruled for 1300 yrs
     
  15. Scott1

    Scott1 Well-Known Member

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    Again.... this is not a difficult question.... I don't know of any church that "ruled" for 1300yrs.... what is so difficult with giving a straight answer>?
     
  16. greatcalgarian

    greatcalgarian Well-Known Member

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    I think he meant Catholic church, 'overthrown' 700 year ago by the protestant and lost monopoly of Jesus?
     
  17. Scott1

    Scott1 Well-Known Member

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    2005-1517=488...... nope, that's not it.
     
  18. Pussyfoot Mouse

    Pussyfoot Mouse Super Mom

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    I have heard of the Crusades, is this what you are talking about? Does anyone else know anything about the Crusades?
     
  19. Scott1

    Scott1 Well-Known Member

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    The Crusades
     
  20. Pussyfoot Mouse

    Pussyfoot Mouse Super Mom

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    Wow, there sure is a lot more to this than I thought. Thank you!
     
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