1. Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Featured Who is the stone the builders rejected in Psalm 118?

Discussion in 'Biblical Debates' started by whirlingmerc, Nov 15, 2019.

Top Posters
Page 1 of 2
  1. whirlingmerc

    whirlingmerc Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2016
    Messages:
    4,643
    Ratings:
    +886
    Religion:
    Christian
    Jesus drew the attention of the religious folk of his day to Psalm 118, the final Passover song

    In Psalm 118:22 ‘the stone that the builders rejected became the cornerstone’ (Psalm 118 being the final Passover song. Imagine Jesus singing Psalm 118 with the apostles at the last supper singing it and having sung a hymn went to the Mount of Olives.)

    In the Psalm what was going on was equated with the gate of salvation, the rejected cornerstone is marvelous!! Psalm 118:24-25

    In contrast to rejection, a blessing given in the Psalm to the one who is the rejected cornerstone the way of salvation for those made righteous follows!! Psalm 118:26 "Blessed is he who comes in the name of the LORD! "

    Jesus is really driving the point home to the religious leaders. They are the builders throwing out the chief cornerstone of salvation who they should be blessing, just like in Psalm 118. The religious leaders of Jesus day is apparently Jesus' interpretation.

    For us? We can take it in and sing Psalm 116:13

    But who is the stone that the builders rejected, if not Jesus?
     
    #1 whirlingmerc, Nov 15, 2019
    • Like Like x 1
    • Useful Useful x 1
  2. susanblange

    susanblange Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2019
    Messages:
    357
    Ratings:
    +87
    Religion:
    Jewish/New Age
    Christianity is modern day Babylon and the God of Israel rejects that theology outright. Jeremiah 51:26. The true Messiah is a woman and she has been rejected by the Jews. Psalm 144:12.
     
    #2 susanblange, Nov 15, 2019
    • Funny Funny x 1
    • Creative Creative x 1
  3. Dawnofhope

    Dawnofhope Veteran Member
    Staff Member Premium Member

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2014
    Messages:
    10,996
    Ratings:
    +10,972
    Religion:
    Baha'i
    Christians should find good support in both the New Testament and Tanakh for Jesus fulfilling this prophecy:

    Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?
    Matthew 21:42

    Therefore thus saith the Lord God, Behold, I lay in Zion for a foundation a stone, a tried stone, a precious corner stone, a sure foundation: he that believeth shall not make haste.
    Isaiah 28:16

    As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
    Romans 9:33

    Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner,
    And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.
    1 Peter 2:7-8
     
    #3 Dawnofhope, Nov 15, 2019
    • Like Like x 3
  4. Brickjectivity

    Brickjectivity Turned to Stone. Now I stretch daily.
    Staff Member Premium Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2012
    Messages:
    36,826
    Ratings:
    +16,972
    Religion:
    liber-scripta grim Christian
    I view it as what not who and see it as a principle that the builders reject rather than a person. The principle is that the spirit goes where it will, so you can't establish a system which preserves its essence. The stone in Nebuchadnezzar's vision is made 'Without hands' and destroys the kingdoms made with hands. People try to make things that will last, and they don't last. We have this principle illustrated with manna and with the glory above the tabernacle. Just enough manna falls to last for one day, and also every time the glory moves the people have to pull up stakes to follow it. If they stay where they are then they lose that glory, and that glory is the ongoing enlightenment and light. They can't gather enough manna for tomorrow nor be confident about where they will live, but the builders rejected this. They were 'Builders' and chose to stay in one place.
     
    #4 Brickjectivity, Nov 15, 2019
    • Like Like x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
  5. InChrist

    InChrist Free4ever

    Joined:
    May 9, 2011
    Messages:
    9,965
    Ratings:
    +2,959
    Religion:
    Christian
    I believe the scriptures clearly indicate Jesus is the stone which was rejected.
     
    #5 InChrist, Nov 15, 2019
    • Like Like x 1
  6. Fool

    Fool ALL in all
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2016
    Messages:
    15,381
    Ratings:
    +3,604
    Religion:
    Light Impressed with Love
    it is exodus 3:14. god, not jesus, is the creator of all things. jesus didn't beget himself, or jesus didn't create himself.
     
    #6 Fool, Nov 16, 2019
  7. shmogie

    shmogie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2014
    Messages:
    9,033
    Ratings:
    +1,878
    Religion:
    Christian
    An eternal being is not created.
     
    #7 shmogie, Nov 16, 2019
  8. Fool

    Fool ALL in all
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2016
    Messages:
    15,381
    Ratings:
    +3,604
    Religion:
    Light Impressed with Love
    an eternal being doesn't have a form, or isn't formed, yes. but it does have an eternal action of being.

    this is why its first a verb, exodus 3:14 and what jesus kept telling you. a tree is known by what it produces, and not by it's form.

    let your eye be single to action because the flesh/form counts for not.


    pretty is as pretty does.
     
    #8 Fool, Nov 16, 2019
  9. Andrew Twain

    Andrew Twain Member

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2019
    Messages:
    20
    Ratings:
    +5
    Religion:
    Christian
    The full scripture shows that perhaps the righteous will enter through the gate of Christ, so he stands at the head of the righteous gate as the rejected stone:

    "Open to me the gates of righteousness,

    that I may enter through them

    and give thanks to the Lord.

    the righteous shall enter through it.

    You have answered me

    and have become my salvation.

    The stone that the builders rejected

    has become the cornerstone."

    Isaiah 8:13-22 helps...
    "Sanctify the Lord of hosts himself; and let him be your fear, and let him be your dread. And he shall be for a sanctuary; but for a stone of stumbling and for a rock of offence to both the houses of Israel, for a gin and for a snare to the inhabitants of Jerusalem."
     
    #9 Andrew Twain, Nov 16, 2019
  10. whirlingmerc

    whirlingmerc Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2016
    Messages:
    4,643
    Ratings:
    +886
    Religion:
    Christian

    And why might part of the response be 'blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord'"?

    In that light it could be both Jesus and God, Jesus being God the Son
     
    #10 whirlingmerc, Nov 16, 2019
  11. whirlingmerc

    whirlingmerc Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2016
    Messages:
    4,643
    Ratings:
    +886
    Religion:
    Christian
    I suppose it depends what you mean by Christianity. There are cultural practices where there are things oh too similar to idolatry and syncretism of animism is places and syncretism of materialism. Whenever you are friends with a world system deformed by idolatry so says James in the NT you are an enemy of God

    Hoever, in Psalm 110 and 118 both quoted by Jesus in Passover week and both bookend the passover Psalms there is an individual who experiences rejection in one sense and blessed in a greater sense. That is fitting of Jesus.
     
    #11 whirlingmerc, Nov 16, 2019
  12. whirlingmerc

    whirlingmerc Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2016
    Messages:
    4,643
    Ratings:
    +886
    Religion:
    Christian

    The builders appear to be a consensus of a group and a leadership group.
    That suggests a group may be wrong in how they look at something God is doing.

    Jesus took it as the religious leaders of His day.
     
    #12 whirlingmerc, Nov 16, 2019
  13. Brickjectivity

    Brickjectivity Turned to Stone. Now I stretch daily.
    Staff Member Premium Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2012
    Messages:
    36,826
    Ratings:
    +16,972
    Religion:
    liber-scripta grim Christian
    There is a story in which Jesus renames his disciple, Simon, to Peter which means Stone. In this moment Jesus reveals why he is keeping his identity (messiah) a secret. By keeping his identity a secret he emphasizes that Peter (and every Christian) has to receive this revelation directly from the Father, not from any person. Only people who receive revelation from the Father will be part of Jesus government. It will be a secret government. There will be no official means, no human means to know who he is and no way to test who is in his government. His church will be built upon this and held together by it. Many believe this is a gnostic concept. I don't necessarily, but I think it is related and that the gnostics probably borrow from this. The stone is ironic, because builders don't want it. Its a symbol that appears several times in scriptures. Its an ironic stone. When you think of what Jesus means by 'The builders' we should see the builders of the temple who have replaced the moving, living tabernacle, with a building of stone. He's using this stone temple as a figure of speech. An recall, too, that Paul refers to the church as a temple made with living stones. All of this is part of Jesus name for Peter. Peter is not literally a rock, but he's one of the stones which will make up the new temple. Each stone will be called by the Father rather than chosen by a builder.
     
    #13 Brickjectivity, Nov 16, 2019
    • Like Like x 1
  14. moorea944

    moorea944 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2008
    Messages:
    1,503
    Ratings:
    +373
    Jesus was not an eternal being. He was born by God's power through Mary. Jesus did not pre-exist. There was no reason for that to begin with. Future prophecy of a coming Messiah was that he was going to be just like us.
     
    #14 moorea944, Nov 17, 2019
  15. shmogie

    shmogie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2014
    Messages:
    9,033
    Ratings:
    +1,878
    Religion:
    Christian
    Wrong.
     
    #15 shmogie, Nov 17, 2019
  16. moorea944

    moorea944 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2008
    Messages:
    1,503
    Ratings:
    +373
    Wrong in what way?
     
    #16 moorea944, Nov 18, 2019
  17. shmogie

    shmogie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2014
    Messages:
    9,033
    Ratings:
    +1,878
    Religion:
    Christian
    A) Christ was an eternal being, e.g. John 1
    ' In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."

    Genesis 1, "let us make man in our image." There are a number of other verses in the OT that display the plurality of God.

    Paul calls Christ the second Adam, Adam was certainly not just like us.
     
    #17 shmogie, Nov 18, 2019
  18. Thief

    Thief Rogue Theologian

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2009
    Messages:
    48,683
    Ratings:
    +4,883
    the Carpenter often spoke of such things as if He was speaking of Himself

    but hey....if you personify what you believe in
    you ARE speaking of yourself

    I AM!...….the way

    and Moses did ask......what shall I tell the people?
    they will want to know Whose law this is

    Say to them.....I AM!
    and they with understanding will know Whose law this is

    the cornerstone.....
    Do unto others as you would have them do unto you

    He did personify
     
    #18 Thief, Nov 18, 2019
  19. moorea944

    moorea944 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2008
    Messages:
    1,503
    Ratings:
    +373

    Christ was an eternal being, e.g. John 1
    ' In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."
    IT's not talking about Christ yet until verse 14. Read the whole chapter. The word "word" in Greek is "LOGOS". It means someone's plans, thoughts or reasons. That verse is talking about God's Word.

    Genesis 1, "let us make man in our image." There are a number of other verses in the OT that display the plurality of God.
    "Let us"... who do you think that is? It's not Christ, he didnt exist yet. In the org, language, it is Elohim. It is God and Angels. In most cases, Elohim is talking about the Angels. We know that by some other verses. Psalms 8 and in Hebrews too were it says that Christ was made lower than the angels. In Hebrew it is Elohim. Christ was born. God didnt become a man and then immortal again.

    There are a number of other verses in the OT that display the plurality of God
    Like what? You mean God is 3? Or God manifestation.....

    Paul calls Christ the second Adam, Adam was certainly not just like us.
    At first, no. Adam was made very good. After his downfall, yes he was like us or we are like him. We have inherited his misfortune. We now have his nature prone to sin. Scripture even tells us that.
     
    #19 moorea944, Nov 18, 2019
  20. Thief

    Thief Rogue Theologian

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2009
    Messages:
    48,683
    Ratings:
    +4,883
    some nay saying to be done here

    and Man was made a little less than the angels
    Psalms

    what scripture does NOT tell you
    and God said to the angelic
    Man is fragile
    Seek after him that he not dash his toe nor his head

    one third of heaven, led by God's Favored said ...NAY!
    that Man is less than we are ….he should be made to serve us!

    there is nothing wrong in that logic
    and we humans do so unto anything less than we are
    even unto each other

    so to whom do we bear resemblance?
     
    #20 Thief, Nov 18, 2019
    • Like Like x 1
(You must log in or sign up to post here.)
Page 1 of 2
Loading...