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Who is the real Imam Mahdi? Is he still to come?

Saint Frankenstein

Wanderer From Afar
Premium Member
In my opinion this comes from a conflation of Christian interpretation about what Jesus meant when He claimed He would return in the “Glory of His Father” with a superficial reading of Baha’i texts on the matter.

In the Baha’i faith returning as the Father is simply seen as returning with a senior spiritual station, as a king outranks a prince.

IMO the best way to superficially explain the station of Baha’u’llah is to see Him as an intermediary between God and man, and not to impose trinitarian views which really are rejected in the Baha’i writings.

Kind regards :)
That explanation makes no sense.
 

Dawnofhope

Non-Proselytizing Baha'i
Staff member
Premium Member
as for the mahdi
anyone who believes in someone who does not speak the bible is not him as prophecy says lately there will be many false teachers and prophets
however, if his name is not in all three religions they are false
and believe me his name is written there in the language of the country in which he was born
so far there are many who can not confirm anything
let alone seal the scrolls where the real one is
 

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
All religions are expecting a Savior to come someday (some say at the end of world). Hindus expect Kalki, Christians await the Second Coming of Jesus, Jews await Moshiach and Muslims expect Imam Mahdi.

This topic is very relevant now, because for some unknown reason, many of these seem to think all these events are going to happen very, very soon.

Among the four, the Muslim savior is particularly interesting because there are many prophesies (or hadiths) regarding his return and there are multiple persons (with several million followers each) claiming to the real Imam Mahdi. Another interesting aspect of Islamic eschatology is that they not only expect the Imam but also say that he will be followed by the Second Coming of Jesus – in fact the two will both be present on Earth at the same time. One hadith of particular interest describe the Imam Mahdi leading a prayer with Jesus standing beside or behind him (in other words Jesus is the junior Savior – although Muslims probably don’t use the word ‘Savior’).

I am interested in discussing the merits of the various claimants and see what people think of the chances are of the ‘’real’ one coming soon.

The Ahmadis – they say that their leader Mirza Ghulam Ahmad (now deceased - 1908) is the Imam Mahdi. However, according to Islamic prophesy, the Mahdi is supposed to be followed by the Second Coming of Jesus. The Ahmadis solved this problem by saying Ahmad was both the Mahdi as well as Jesus, so instead of two separate persons they have come as one. (I have heard some Ahmadis claim that Ahmad is also Krishna, but I don’t know if that is the official position). The Ahmadi also claim that Jesus never died on the cross, but went on to live many years, finally dying and being buried in India (there is even a grave site). Apparently over 20 million believe these stories and are followers of Ahmad. Ahmadis claim to be Muslims, but most other Muslims don’t seem agree. So the Mahdi/Savior according them is come and gone, the world of world has not taken place, so maybe we are all already saved or we can be saved by believing in Ahmad. Mirza Ahmad has written many, many books – perhaps we should be reading them

The Bahais – They have two leaders the Bab and Bahaullah (both deceased), but Bahaullah (1817-1892) is the Founder of the faith. They initially claimed that their leader Bahaullah was the Imam Mahdi. But there was no Jesus who followed, so then they changed it to say Bahaullah was the Second Coming of Jesus and the Bab is Imam Mahdi. But that would make Bahaullah junior to Bab, so now they say that Bahaullah is not only Jesus but also ‘the Father’ (from the Bible, both Father and Son in one person). So the Islamic prophesy has been fulfilled - Imam Mahdi has been followed by the Second Coming of Jesus/the Father (although I don’t believe the two of them ever met or led a prayer together as predicted). Bahaullah himself was so sure of his position, he has written many verses in the exact same style as the beatitudes from the Bible. He has also written thousands of ‘tablets’, many still waiting to be translated. I don’t think Bahais claim to be Muslim, but they believe that Koran is the word of God. At least 8 million people believe in these claims of Bahaullah.

Recently Mohammed Abdullah al-Nasr of Egypt has claimed to be the Mahdi. I am not sure how many people believe his story, but I am sure he has at least some followers.

There is person India living in India who has claimed to be the Imam, but almost nobody seems to believe him.

I think the claims above are a bit dubious – any believers on this forum are welcome to try and convince me otherwise.

Most recently a couple of people have posted on these forums, saying the coming of the Mahdi is near (or has already occurred) . I have looked at their website/wiki but they don’t show an actual person. However, their goals and statements are good. They have even started believing in reincarnation – this is a major change in the dogma of Islam. Only very serious people would take such a big, drastic step of changing in their beliefs especially if you are a Muslim – these are strong convictions. So it looks like they have seen some kind of light. I will keep an open mind – may be this could be the real thing. My money (very small amount) is definitely on them.

This return of the Mahi is of importance not just to Muslims. If he is indeed the expected world savior, he is going to affect every person in the world one way or another. (Incidentally I am a Hindu).

So will the real Imam Mahdi please stand up ?!

Please comment and let me know what you think. (Also please correct any statements I have made above about the beliefs of different faiths above).
soulsurvivor wrote:" All religions are expecting a Savior to come someday (some say at the end of world). Hindus expect Kalki, Christians await the Second Coming of Jesus, Jews await Moshiach and Muslims expect Imam Mahdi."

One has missed one important religion Zoroastrianism who are also waiting for the reformer, just to add for information:
"Saoshyans*, in Zoroastrian eschatology, final saviour of the world and quencher of its evil; he is the foremost of three saviours (the first two are Ōshētar and Ōshētarmāh) who are all posthumous sons of Zoroaster. One will appear at the end of each of the three last millennia of the world, miraculously conceived by a maiden who has swum in a lake where Zoroaster’s seed was preserved. After 57 years Saoshyans, aided by 30 great persons of the departed who have remained linked with bodily existence, will break the demonic power and resurrect the bodies of the dead. Saoshyans and six helpers will then lead the work in the seven zones of the world, communicating with each other miraculously. When all souls have been cleansed, including those of the damned, Saoshyans will prepare for them white haoma—the ritual drink of the Zoroastrians—which will bestow eternal perfection on their bodies."
Saoshyans | Zoroastrianism
*Also perhaps named Maisodarbahmi, pleased correct me if I am wrong.

Right, please?

Regards
 
Last edited:

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
soulsurvivor wrote:" All religions are expecting a Savior to come someday (some say at the end of world). Hindus expect Kalki, Christians await the Second Coming of Jesus, Jews await Moshiach and Muslims expect Imam Mahdi."

One has missed one important religion Zoroastrianism who are also waiting for the reformer, just to add for information:
"Saoshyans*, in Zoroastrian eschatology, final saviour of the world and quencher of its evil; he is the foremost of three saviours (the first two are Ōshētar and Ōshētarmāh) who are all posthumous sons of Zoroaster. One will appear at the end of each of the three last millennia of the world, miraculously conceived by a maiden who has swum in a lake where Zoroaster’s seed was preserved. After 57 years Saoshyans, aided by 30 great persons of the departed who have remained linked with bodily existence, will break the demonic power and resurrect the bodies of the dead. Saoshyans and six helpers will then lead the work in the seven zones of the world, communicating with each other miraculously. When all souls have been cleansed, including those of the damned, Saoshyans will prepare for them white haoma—the ritual drink of the Zoroastrians—which will bestow eternal perfection on their bodies."
Saoshyans | Zoroastrianism
*Also perhaps named Maisodarbahmi, pleased correct me if I am wrong.

Right, please?

Regards
In case you are interested below are two websites that have prophecies for the Messianic figure who is supposed to come.

Prophecies from World Religion and other sources

In this page a links to other pages concentrating on prophecies contained in some of the major Religious and Spiritual traditions of the World. Also I have included some predictions of Nostradamus and there is an article on 2012 which is the special date when the Mayan calendar comes to an end. In each section I give some background to the prophecies from the respective World Religions and also discuss some of their social and political implications.

1./ Jewish Prophecies and Messianic Expectation
2./ Christian Prophecies and the Second Coming of Christ
3./ Muslim Prophecies and the Appearance of Imam Mahdi
4./ Hindu Prophecies and the Incarnation of the Kalki Avatar
5./ Buddhist Prophecies and the Coming of Maitraya
6./ Zoroastrian Prophecies for the Coming of the Saoshyant
7./ Prophecies of Nostradamus
8./ Native American Prophecies
9./ Norse Prophecies
10./ 2012 and the end of the Mayan Calendar

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Prophecy Fulfilled Webpage

Each of the world's major religions contains Messianic prophecies.

Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism, the Zoroastrian religion and even the Native American religions all foretell the coming of a Promised One. Each of the Founders of these great religions either promised to personally return himself, to send another like himself or in some instances.... the Founder promised to do both.”

Christians await the return of Christ and the coming of "another comforter." The Jewish scriptures foretell the coming of "another Prophet" like Moses and the return of Elijah from heaven. Many Moslems await the appearance of Mahdi and Meseeh. Krishna promised to personally return from age to age. Buddha said that he was not the first Buddha ever to appear and that another "supremely enlightened" Buddha was still yet to come. Zoroastrian prophecies foretell the coming of a "World-renovator." Native American prophecies foretell the coming of a bearded white man from the east who will bring teachings which will restore the hoop of unity.

Each religion, in its own way, has foretold the coming of a great 'religion restoring', 'world uniting', 'peace bringing' Messiah.

For centuries, people from all over the world have been hoping and praying that they will be the generation which will witness the appearance of their Promised One. Not many have considered the possibility that these prophecies from the various religions might actually all be foretelling the exact same event.

Members of the Baha'i Faith believe that in the middle of the last century these prophecies actually were fulfilled and that the Promised One truly did appear.

Baha'u'llah, the Prophet founder of the Baha'i Faith, claims to be the Promised One whose coming was explicitly foretold, not only in the Old and the New Testaments.... but also in the prophecies of the Hindu, Buddhist, Zoroastrian, Islamic and other religions.

If Baha'u'llah truly is the Promised One then His appearance is one of the greatest events of human history. Are Baha'u'llah's claim true? How can we know for certain? Just take a look at some of the proofs and prophecies... and then decide for yourself.
 

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
Very old thread, but just in case there are new readers, I'll re-post my position about Hinduism ... Hinduism is indeed in the list, but the term 'Hinduism' is an umbrella term that covers many different lines of thought and sects. Of these, only one has an end times messiah/prophet/avatara. The rest make no mention of it. So it's confirmation bias.
 

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
Very old thread, but just in case there are new readers, I'll re-post my position about Hinduism ... Hinduism is indeed in the list, but the term 'Hinduism' is an umbrella term that covers many different lines of thought and sects. Of these, only one has an end times messiah/prophet/avatara. The rest make no mention of it. So it's confirmation bias.
Which one, please?
Regards
 

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
In case you are interested below are two websites that have prophecies for the Messianic figure who is supposed to come.

Prophecies from World Religion and other sources

In this page a links to other pages concentrating on prophecies contained in some of the major Religious and Spiritual traditions of the World. Also I have included some predictions of Nostradamus and there is an article on 2012 which is the special date when the Mayan calendar comes to an end. In each section I give some background to the prophecies from the respective World Religions and also discuss some of their social and political implications.

1./ Jewish Prophecies and Messianic Expectation
2./ Christian Prophecies and the Second Coming of Christ
3./ Muslim Prophecies and the Appearance of Imam Mahdi
4./ Hindu Prophecies and the Incarnation of the Kalki Avatar
5./ Buddhist Prophecies and the Coming of Maitraya
6./ Zoroastrian Prophecies for the Coming of the Saoshyant
7./ Prophecies of Nostradamus
8./ Native American Prophecies
9./ Norse Prophecies
10./ 2012 and the end of the Mayan Calendar

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Prophecy Fulfilled Webpage

Each of the world's major religions contains Messianic prophecies.

Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism, the Zoroastrian religion and even the Native American religions all foretell the coming of a Promised One. Each of the Founders of these great religions either promised to personally return himself, to send another like himself or in some instances.... the Founder promised to do both.”

Christians await the return of Christ and the coming of "another comforter." The Jewish scriptures foretell the coming of "another Prophet" like Moses and the return of Elijah from heaven. Many Moslems await the appearance of Mahdi and Meseeh. Krishna promised to personally return from age to age. Buddha said that he was not the first Buddha ever to appear and that another "supremely enlightened" Buddha was still yet to come. Zoroastrian prophecies foretell the coming of a "World-renovator." Native American prophecies foretell the coming of a bearded white man from the east who will bring teachings which will restore the hoop of unity.

Each religion, in its own way, has foretold the coming of a great 'religion restoring', 'world uniting', 'peace bringing' Messiah.

For centuries, people from all over the world have been hoping and praying that they will be the generation which will witness the appearance of their Promised One. Not many have considered the possibility that these prophecies from the various religions might actually all be foretelling the exact same event.

Members of the Baha'i Faith believe that in the middle of the last century these prophecies actually were fulfilled and that the Promised One truly did appear.

Baha'u'llah, the Prophet founder of the Baha'i Faith, claims to be the Promised One whose coming was explicitly foretold, not only in the Old and the New Testaments.... but also in the prophecies of the Hindu, Buddhist, Zoroastrian, Islamic and other religions.

If Baha'u'llah truly is the Promised One then His appearance is one of the greatest events of human history. Are Baha'u'llah's claim true? How can we know for certain? Just take a look at some of the proofs and prophecies... and then decide for yourself.
" 6./ Zoroastrian Prophecies for the Coming of the Saoshyant"

I find a name "Maisodarbahmi" the person to come at end of time in the Zoroastrianism, but I don't see it in their official website. Does one know anything about it, please?

Regards
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
" 6./ Zoroastrian Prophecies for the Coming of the Saoshyant"

I find a name "Maisodarbahmi" the person to come at end of time in the Zoroastrianism, but I don't see it in their official website. Does one know anything about it, please?

Regards
No, I don't know.
 

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
Thanks friend.
Kindly provide the link of the original source where such end time reformer is prophesied , please.

Regards
I don't know, because I'm not of that sect, but if you google 'Kalki' you should be able to find lots of information. It doesn't interest me personally.
 

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
paarsurrey said:
Thanks friend.
Kindly provide the link of the original source where such end time reformer is prophesied (in Hinduism) , please.
I don't know, because I'm not of that sect, but if you google 'Kalki' you should be able to find lots of information. It doesn't interest me personally.
OK.
Thanks and regards.
Anybody else, please.

Regards
 

joelr

Well-Known Member
" 6./ Zoroastrian Prophecies for the Coming of the Saoshyant"

I find a name "Maisodarbahmi" the person to come at end of time in the Zoroastrianism, but I don't see it in their official website. Does one know anything about it, please?

Regards


In Mary Boyce's book under "the early days" of Zorastrianism (~6BC) a world savior, virgin born, called the Saoshyant, is predicted by Zoraster. His name will be Astvat-ereta.
Zoroastrians
 

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
But they all be waiting for the reformer to come. Right, please?

Regards
Not all. Hinduism gives freedom for people to think on their own. It's not some block of people all thinking exactly the same way. That's a beauty of Hinduism that other faiths don't have so much of. So you'd have to go around and ask each person what they truly believed.

Do the Ammadiyas believe that Mirza Akmad was Kalki, in the same way the Baha'is believe Baha'u'llah was?
 

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
In Mary Boyce's book under "the early days" of Zorastrianism (~6BC) a world savior, virgin born, called the Saoshyant, is predicted by Zoraster. His name will be Astvat-ereta.
Zoroastrians

I find following regarding Saoshyant in Yasna:

AVESTA: YASNA: Sacred Liturgy and Gathas/Hymns of Zarathushtra
9.

2. Thereupon gave Haoma answer, the holy one who driveth death afar: I am, O Zarathushtra Haoma, the holy and driving death afar; pray to me, O Spitama, prepare me for the taste. Praise me so that also the other Saoshyants [benefactors] may praise me2.
12.
7. As the belief of the waters, the belief of the plants, the belief of the well-made (Original) Cow; as the belief of Ahura Mazda who created the cow and the Asha-endowed Man; as the belief of Zarathushtra, the belief of Kavi Vishtaspa, the belief of both Frashaostra and Jamaspa; as the belief of each of the Saoshyants (saviors) — fulfilling destiny and Asha-endowed —
so I am a Mazda-worshipper of this belief and teaching.
26.
9. (And having invoked them) hither we worship the Fravashis of all the holy children who fulfill the deeds of piety; and we worship the Fravashis of the saints within the province; and those of the saints without the province. 10. We worship the Fravashis of (those) holy men and holy women; we worship all the good, heroic, bountiful Fravashis of the saints from Gaya Maretan [Gayomard] (the first created) to the Saoshyant, the victorious.
48.
12. These shall be the deliverers [Saoshyants -JHP] of the provinces, who exert themselves, O Good Thought in their action, O Asha, to fulfill their duty, face to face with thy command, O Mazda. For these are the appointed smiters of Violence.
59.
28. We worship Verethraghna, the Ahura-made, the victorious blow; and we worship the Saoshyant, who smites with victory; and we sacrifice to this Baresman with its Zaothra and its girdle (which is its band) and which is spread with sanctity. And we sacrifice to (our) own soul(s), and to (our) own Fravashi(s).
AVESTA: YASNA: (English)

But I find no mention of Astvat-ereta in the Yasna, please?
Anybody to reflect on it, please.

Regards
 
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joelr

Well-Known Member
I fine following regarding Saoshyant in Yasna:

AVESTA: YASNA: Sacred Liturgy and Gathas/Hymns of Zarathushtra
9.

2. Thereupon gave Haoma answer, the holy one who driveth death afar: I am, O Zarathushtra Haoma, the holy and driving death afar; pray to me, O Spitama, prepare me for the taste. Praise me so that also the other Saoshyants [benefactors] may praise me2.
12.
7. As the belief of the waters, the belief of the plants, the belief of the well-made (Original) Cow; as the belief of Ahura Mazda who created the cow and the Asha-endowed Man; as the belief of Zarathushtra, the belief of Kavi Vishtaspa, the belief of both Frashaostra and Jamaspa; as the belief of each of the Saoshyants (saviors) — fulfilling destiny and Asha-endowed —
so I am a Mazda-worshipper of this belief and teaching.
26.
9. (And having invoked them) hither we worship the Fravashis of all the holy children who fulfill the deeds of piety; and we worship the Fravashis of the saints within the province; and those of the saints without the province. 10. We worship the Fravashis of (those) holy men and holy women; we worship all the good, heroic, bountiful Fravashis of the saints from Gaya Maretan [Gayomard] (the first created) to the Saoshyant, the victorious.
48.
12. These shall be the deliverers [Saoshyants -JHP] of the provinces, who exert themselves, O Good Thought in their action, O Asha, to fulfill their duty, face to face with thy command, O Mazda. For these are the appointed smiters of Violence.
59.
28. We worship Verethraghna, the Ahura-made, the victorious blow; and we worship the Saoshyant, who smites with victory; and we sacrifice to this Baresman with its Zaothra and its girdle (which is its band) and which is spread with sanctity. And we sacrifice to (our) own soul(s), and to (our) own Fravashi(s).
AVESTA: YASNA: (English)

But I find no mention of Astvat-ereta in the Yasna, please?
Anybody to reflect on it, please.

Regards


Zoroastrians

click on "look inside" go to pg 42 - World Savior
 
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